onewilyfool Posted March 14, 2015 Share Posted March 14, 2015 I can do saddle, relief, change strings, clean the fretboard, etc…..but I've never taken on adjusting the nut slots…….Now I have one guitar that has a low high E slot, and another that has high action on all the strings at the nut slots…so…anyone have a good link to the "How To" or any advice on doing it, or is it time to take it in for a setup??? Any advice appreciated!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GuitarLight Posted March 14, 2015 Share Posted March 14, 2015 I can do saddle, relief, change strings, clean the fretboard, etc…..but I've never taken on adjusting the nut slots…….Now I have one guitar that has a low high E slot, and another that has high action on all the strings at the nut slots…so…anyone have a good link to the "How To" or any advice on doing it, or is it time to take it in for a setup??? Any advice appreciated!!! Yes but never in public. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bobouz Posted March 14, 2015 Share Posted March 14, 2015 For a slot that's cut too low: I fill it with filed bone dust, add a touch of superglue, and recut (file) the slot. Careful with the superglue! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jedzep Posted March 14, 2015 Share Posted March 14, 2015 I think that much like the break angle off the saddle, the way a string rolls off a point of contact at the nut is a factor for tone. While I have adjusted to lower height with a piece of 150 grit paper wrapped around a sheet metal edge or, depending on which string, the back of a hacksaw blade, it's an aggravating inaccurate process with potential for muting a string's potential. I then use 220 grit to smooth and polish. However, for the price of the adjustment it's now something I'd always take it in to the doctor for. Stew-Mac has a dissertation on the topic, along with all the overpriced implements. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blindboygrunt Posted March 14, 2015 Share Posted March 14, 2015 For a slot that's cut too low: I fill it with filed bone dust, add a touch of superglue, and recut (file) the slot. Careful with the superglue! That's like the worst poem ever. Fair enough advice though Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
j45nick Posted March 14, 2015 Share Posted March 14, 2015 I can do saddle, relief, change strings, clean the fretboard, etc…..but I've never taken on adjusting the nut slots…….Now I have one guitar that has a low high E slot, and another that has high action on all the strings at the nut slots…so…anyone have a good link to the "How To" or any advice on doing it, or is it time to take it in for a setup??? Any advice appreciated!!! I think there's a Dan Erlewine video about this. See link below: My link There are several other videos on stewmac.com on this topic. If you don't subscribe to these, you should. At the very least, they de-mystify a lot of fairly straightforward things you can do to improve your guitars. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave F Posted March 14, 2015 Share Posted March 14, 2015 I always in this order Decide what string gage I'm going to use Adjust truss rod to a .005-.010" neck relief Modify Saddle for string height at the 12th fret Modify nut as needed by filing slots deeper or building back up as mentioned above. I use super glue gel and dust. I'm a little slow and it's easier to work with. I use a piece of E string as a spatula. Mask everything off. Wipe off excess. Let dry. I have one of those nut slot Gage's from StewMac. I shoot for .022" with the top string and taper down to .012" on the bottom. Make sure you put a break angle on your cut to keep the intonation correct. Or take it to a qualified luthier Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fortyearspickn Posted March 14, 2015 Share Posted March 14, 2015 To build up your low e slot - I'd echo what Bobouz wrote. One alternative to Superglue is Epoxy. It gives you more set up time and is a little easier to work with. Of course, the Superglue often has a fine point applicator. I use the bone dust and epoxy mixture to fill in holes and cracks in bone knife handles and it works perfectly. Super strong and easy to file, sand, polish, etc. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mountainpicker Posted March 14, 2015 Share Posted March 14, 2015 I find Paul Hostetter's discussions on things of lutherie to be well thought out and his explanations makes sense. Check out what he says about nuts here: http://www.lutherie.net/nuts.html There is also a companion piece on his site about the tools needed to accomplish the task. His site is chocked full of all kinds of interesting guitar related things. I especially like his discussions on the Gibson Nick Lucas Special and his involvement with the Santa Cruz H13 derivatives. Great picture too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sbpark Posted March 14, 2015 Share Posted March 14, 2015 Nut slots are unfortunately overlooked a lot, but will if cut incorrectly can really affect things like intonation and feel/comfort when playing first position chords. If you've never had a properly cut nut and take it to someone who knows what they're doing, it's a night and day difference. It's essential in a proper set up! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wetdog Posted March 14, 2015 Share Posted March 14, 2015 For a job this simple it's easy to do yourself. It's not rocket science. "Trust your feelings, Luke!" I agree with the bone dust and epoxy or super glue, which is just fast epoxy. A problem might be getting the dust if you don't have the material around, which is a good reason to start now doing your own work, collecting some parts and tools and go for it. If you have an old bone nut around that's good. Rub it on sandpaper to make the dust. Here are some tips: The nut should come out. Loosen the strings and block them up with a scrap of wood by the nut. It might be lightly glued but heat it with a hair dryer to loosen the glue and tap it lightly with a hammer against a small piece of wood. Now you can put it in a vise and not worry about scratching the guitar or getting glue on it. Fill the low slot a little and let it dry. Now comes the "art" part of it. Cut the slot down to were it needs to be. The amount you cut is tiny and difficult to measure but take heart. If it's wrong you can redo it. There are many tools that will work. i.e. folded sand paper, a fine fret saw, a nut file of the proper size, (about $13 from Stew Mac or LMI) or a sharp knife or razor knife and finish off with folded sandpaper, 220 or lighter. A set of jeweler's files can be had at Harbor Freight for a few dollars, but for a high E probably not small enough. The slots on all the strings should be cut to no more than 1/2 the thickness of the string. Copy the string angle that you have. If the entire rest of the strings are too high find a good flat spot like a piece of kitchen granite or a tile and lay sandpaper on it to rub the bottom edge of the nut. Or...sand the bottom of the nut first and now you have some bone dust to do the fill. I often use an old set of strings as a "saw" to cut down the slots for the wound strings. Hey, they'll be a perfect fit! Just hold the string tightly and pull it back and forth through the slot, low E for the E slot etc.You will have to keep putting it back on the guitar and tightening the strings to see if you have it right. What is cool is that the struggle will TEACH you just like learning new chords or guitar runs! Hey, you're becoming a luthier!B) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
j45nick Posted March 14, 2015 Share Posted March 14, 2015 For a job this simple it's easy to do yourself. It's not rocket science. "Trust your feelings, Luke!" I agree with the bone dust and epoxy or super glue, which is just fast epoxy. A problem might be getting the dust if you don't have the material around, which is a good reason to start now doing your own work, collecting some parts and tools and go for it. If you have an old bone nut around that's good. Rub it on sandpaper to make the dust. Just to be clear, epoxies and cyanoacrylates ("superglue") have nothing in common chemically, and are quite different from each other functionally. Superglues are one-part, have a somewhat limited shelf life, and bond on contact, even though it can take time to cure completely, especially if used in a thickened state. The fast epoxies generally create fairly weak bonds, and often do not set rock-hard. They have a slower tack time than superglues, allowing you to remove residue from your fingers with alcohol before they set up. Once you get superglue on your fingers, you don't want to touch anything--including other bits of skin--before the adhesive sets up. My dermatologist actually taught me how to use superglue to close cracks in your skin. It's pretty useful stuff all-around. Unfortunately, I'm pretty sensitized to epoxies after working with them for 40+ years, and have to wear nitrile gloves and use a respirator when working with them now. I can't use latex gloves, as I'm also allergic to latex! There are online tutorials--I think stewmac.com may have one or more--on how to use both types of adhesives for this purpose (working on guitar nuts), and I would strongly recommend that you look at them before embarking on this project Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
onewilyfool Posted March 14, 2015 Author Share Posted March 14, 2015 Not that I'm avoiding doing the work….lol….but is my understanding right here, that when you capo your guitar, the action at the nut doesn't really matter anymore…right? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GuitarLight Posted March 14, 2015 Share Posted March 14, 2015 Not that I'm avoiding doing the work….lol….but is my understanding right here, that when you capo your guitar, the action at the nut doesn't really matter anymore…right? Yes when you use any capo, the action at the nut is null and void. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bobouz Posted March 14, 2015 Share Posted March 14, 2015 That's like the worst poem ever. Yes, it just may be! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wetdog Posted March 14, 2015 Share Posted March 14, 2015 Yes, thank you for reminding me about the difference between epoxy and superglue. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jedzep Posted March 14, 2015 Share Posted March 14, 2015 Man, I usually love dickin' around with the little acoustic guitar adjustments, but this one with talk of potentially messy adhesives, bone dust, and getting the slot just so all suddenly sounds like an even more aggravating task than it did early in the discussion. I'm now three times more likely to just bring it in to the doc. I also don't like the 'new' material (glue and dust) added to the single piece of bone as it's consistency and hardness are slightly different. What do you think of this Ebay seller's take on nut mechanics as it relates to tone? You have to have some friggin' good ears I guess. http://www.ebay.com/...K%3AMEBIDX%3AIT Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
j45nick Posted March 14, 2015 Share Posted March 14, 2015 What do you think of this Ebay seller's take on nut mechanics as it relates to tone? You have to have some friggin' good ears I guess. http://www.ebay.com/...K%3AMEBIDX%3AIT Sounds like witchcraft to me, but who knows? Em7 has probably experimented with something like this on one of his guitars. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BluesKing777 Posted March 14, 2015 Share Posted March 14, 2015 I think there's a Dan Erlewine video about this. See link below: My link There are several other videos on stewmac.com on this topic. If you don't subscribe to these, you should. At the very least, they de-mystify a lot of fairly straightforward things you can do to improve your guitars. Dan's videos are the best! The minus side to them, is he can instill confidence that doesn't belong yet...not without some practice and they are, of course, flogging their specialised tools and accessories. The joy of going to a great guitar tech/luthier is he has a lifetime of everything to do with guitar - all the tools and all the experience. Like Dan, he makes it look easy and the incredible thing: quick! Often while I have been there talking about a guitar repair or something, his hands keep working because he is too busy to stop, but because he is SO experienced he can keep chatting and remember what you asked or said. Like a guitarist playing a complicated tune while discussing motor racing. This stuff is their bread and butter. The old nut is in the bin and a perfectly shaped one to your requirements on there before you can blink - he isnt normally going to fiddle around with filling old nut slots unless asked. I'm not against doing the work yourself, I'm just saying how great it is to see a super experienced guy get that nut setup and maybe buy and old beater and get the right tools to practice home luthery on before wrecking the new J45 or J200! BluesKing777. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
onewilyfool Posted March 14, 2015 Author Share Posted March 14, 2015 OK…here's a question…..how much (in US dollars) does a complete setup cost in your area? Here in the SFO area I think the lowest I've seen is $55, and Gryphon is $75 I believe….of course their setup will be PERFECT!!! It will be interesting to get a world view of setup costs…. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BluesKing777 Posted March 15, 2015 Share Posted March 15, 2015 OK…here's a question…..how much (in US dollars) does a complete setup cost in your area? Here in the SFO area I think the lowest I've seen is $55, and Gryphon is $75 I believe….of course their setup will be PERFECT!!! It will be interesting to get a world view of setup costs…. I'm coming to live SF - guess what mine costs? (Keep in mind that a J45 is double the price and a Martin D28 double and a half, but that might be they see me coming!) BluesKing777. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
j45nick Posted March 15, 2015 Share Posted March 15, 2015 Dan's videos are the best! The minus side to them, is he can instill confidence that doesn't belong yet...not without some practice and they are, of course, flogging their specialised tools and accessories. The joy of going to a great guitar tech/luthier is he has a lifetime of everything to do with guitar - all the tools and all the experience. Like Dan, he makes it look easy and the incredible thing: quick! Often while I have been there talking about a guitar repair or something, his hands keep working because he is too busy to stop, but because he is SO experienced he can keep chatting and remember what you asked or said. Like a guitarist playing a complicated tune while discussing motor racing. This stuff is their bread and butter. The old nut is in the bin and a perfectly shaped one to your requirements on there before you can blink - he isnt normally going to fiddle around with filling old nut slots unless asked. I'm not against doing the work yourself, I'm just saying how great it is to see a super experienced guy get that nut setup and maybe buy and old beater and get the right tools to practice home luthery on before wrecking the new J45 or J200! BluesKing777. I agree with you on all of that. My guy (Ross Teigen) can completely set up an acoustic guitar, including filing the nut, while I stand there and watch. He's done it for me several times while I wait, since I have to drive three hours to get to him. I don't go there just for a setup, but if I'm headed there to pick up a guitar that he's done major work on, I'll take another guitar with me for tweaking, even if it only means him checking it for me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
retrorod Posted March 15, 2015 Share Posted March 15, 2015 Hey GENTS! 'scuse me, whilst I "adjust my nuts" Thank you.....Thank you very much... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
retrorod Posted March 15, 2015 Share Posted March 15, 2015 OK…here's a question…..how much (in US dollars) does a complete setup cost in your area? Here in the SFO area I think the lowest I've seen is $55, and Gryphon is $75 I believe….of course their setup will be PERFECT!!! It will be interesting to get a world view of setup costs…. Hell, I am surprised they don't charge a hunnard bucks to "tune one" where you live....land of plenty and all..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BluesKing777 Posted March 15, 2015 Share Posted March 15, 2015 I agree with you on all of that. My guy (Ross Teigen) can completely set up an acoustic guitar, including filing the nut, while I stand there and watch. He's done it for me several times while I wait, since I have to drive three hours to get to him. I don't go there just for a setup, but if I'm headed there to pick up a guitar that he's done major work on, I'll take another guitar with me for tweaking, even if it only means him checking it for me. 3 hour drive? Phew! I am incredibly, sensationally, excrutiatingly spoiled - 10 minutes if I go at lunchtime to miss traffic, a little bit horrible if I go at 5 pm.....the traffic bumper car thing they do is scary when carrying a brand new guitar to get set, add to the general excitement and nervousness. As a bit of a regular, I also cop a bit of flack from the apprentice smart A and the tech about buying too many guitars when I walk in to their glorious old school shop. They know more about how I play than I do and that is important in setups. I have been back a few times to get a finer type adjustment or two, including getting the spacing on the nut spread out a bit for fingerstyle, if possible (well, another nut done really). My old L-0 has been a couple of times because previous owner/s have done all kinds of weirdo home renos including filing the V neck down, WHY? WHY? Why whyyyyyyyyy? So it has a small hump near the back of the nut that didnt get shaved down, that has made getting the feel of the nut a bit tricky. I could get 3 whiskers more taken out of the nut, but here is where I am heading....self nut filers.....he is reluctant to take any more out of the slots and cause other problems, including starting again with a new nut if it goes too low..... (I have also got to strum a few dream guitars he is working on because they know I am respectful of acoustic guitars....last time I plucked a few tunes on a 1800s Martin picker!) BluesKing777. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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