Advice regarding writing song lyrics

[Lars68]

Swedish is my native language, but I feel very comfortable expressing myself in English, especially in writing, when a short pause to find the needed word does not become as annoying as when speaking. When speaking, as well as when singing, I assume I have an accent detectable to native English speakers as some kind of "foreign" accent. I'm now thinking about writing a kind of Springsteenesque narative story kind of song. When I think about the lyrics I want to use, there is a conflict between the style I find appropriate from a lyrical point of view, and what I feel would be my natural way of expressing myself in English.

 

For example, in Woody Guthrie's most famous song he wrote about the trespassing sign: "the other side, it didn't say nothing". This is not the way I would speak, but it suits the folk song style (I guess especially from an American point of view, with an American singing it). So my question is, do you think I would sound fake if I wrote lyrics with similar wordings, but sung in an apparent non native English speaking accent? So far I have kept my English songs more universal without placing them culturally.

 

What do you think?

 

Lars

[Old Neil]

My 2 Swedish kronor's worth :-)

Better to stay true to yourself - unless it's an intentional exercise in imitation.

[gearbasher]

According to the Brits, Americans don't speak English either.

[AnneS]

My 2 Swedish kronor's worth :-)

Better to stay true to yourself - unless it's an intentional exercise in imitation.

I agree...keep focus on what YOU see/feel/hear; assume the lyrics--in whatever language or blend thereof--are capable of conveying the essence. You can always tweak the output, but I don't know that you can plan around obstacles before you see the path.

[j45nick]

What Anne says...

[olie]

Hey Lars; I think it depends on what you are trying to say and who you see saying it. Some writers are gifted in hearing other people talk and finding a way of replicating it in writing-it's almost as if they're walking tape-recorders the way they capture authentic dialogue.That's if you are speaking through the voice of someone else.If you are speaking solely with your own voice just say it the way you feel and think it. People can tell if it's the real deal; if not it sounds affected or stilted and unoriginal. I think something like a song needs to be heard the way one feels about life and oneself. Writing something for the sake of saying something profound has a way of revealing itself for what it is. There's enough of that out there on the airwaves as it is. Just give it an effort-you'll never know if you don't make an attempt. Good luck!

[kidblast]

I assume I have an accent detectable to native English speakers

 

 

I've listened to a bunch of your audio posts, I don't think I would have ever known from those that English was not your primary language.

[mountainpicker]

Just try to avoid doing something like this:

 

when the original was done and sounded like this:

 

 

But in all seriousness, just be your self and go with your gut.

['Scales]

Lars old mate, since you appear to be my Swedish alter-ego (age, musical ambition, even re you degree/career post...) I'll share my experience by way of an example. I too thought I'd write a Springsteen style song lyrically, and then put my idea of a 'southern rock' style vibe to it musically. I've attached a link below to me performing it at a rehearsal with my old band - anyway, lyrically I think it works to step outside your native language (mine is Australian) and it doesn't at all matter that it's not the phrasing you would use in speech - it's more like poetry anyway, but vocally I gave it far too much 'American twang' which is annoying in retrospect, so I'd maybe go for a more local style vocal or a copy of Bruce's style if doing it again.

 

I think the bottom line is that you live and learn, and that experimenting is all part of the fun. Just my view, others will differ

 

 

https://soundcloud.com/itiswhatitis-5/first-song

[MissouriPicker]

Lars, don't let the difference in "slang" styles of language slow you down. As stated by many above, be yourself. You are far ahead of many of us in here. You speak two languages that I'm aware of and you speak them well. Your English is really strong. Learning all the slang words used (for example) in English would be a huge, if not impossible effort, considering all the different countries speaking their own style of English. I write most of my songs in the street vernacular form. Things like "nuthin'" in place of "nothing." I do it because it's the way I typically talk, meaning I don't even use my native language properly..lol.........I think you should stay "you" in how you write. Write the lyrics in the style you normally talk in. Stay who you are. If you don't, those of us in here will know it. People like Dylan, Cash, Joanie Mitchell, Lightfoot, Bob Segar and on and on (and you can't leave out Leonard Cohen) all speak/sing in their own style. They're not really concerned about how someone else has said something. They say it in their own way.

[Lars68]

Lars old mate, since you appear to be my Swedish alter-ego (age, musical ambition, even re you degree/career post...) I'll share my experience by way of an example. I too thought I'd write a Springsteen style song lyrically, and then put my idea of a 'southern rock' style vibe to it musically. I've attached a link below to me performing it at a rehearsal with my old band - anyway, lyrically I think it works to step outside your native language (mine is Australian) and it doesn't at all matter that it's not the phrasing you would use in speech - it's more like poetry anyway, but vocally I gave it far too much 'American twang' which is annoying in retrospect, so I'd maybe go for a more local style vocal or a copy of Bruce's style if doing it again.

 

I think the bottom line is that you live and learn, and that experimenting is all part of the fun. Just my view, others will differ

 

 

https://soundcloud.com/itiswhatitis-5/first-song

 

Scales, that is a very good example, but it is only when knowing your're Australian your performance actually lands on the wrong side of the fence. I agree with you on the twang accent, but heck of a good song and performance otherwise

 

By the way, maybe I should clarify, I intend to write a song inspired by Springsteen's narative, folksy style. I intend for the song to be something personal, which I can realate to. I'm not looking to copy his accent or singing style, or anything like that. I'm more concerned about using a language I would not normally use myself and that it would sound "fake".

 

When Johnny Cash did Redemption Song by Bob Marley and sang "Oh pirates, yes they rob I, sold I to the merchant ships. Minutes after they took I from the bottom less pit", it worked because he was not pretending to be Jamaican. He was simly interpreting someone else's song. However, if he had written those exact words himself, well different story...

 

I'm gonna give it a go to see what happens. I'm no stranger to failure...

 

Lars

 

By the way, if I ever go to Australia I need to find my alter ego

[Lars68]

Lars, don't let the difference in "slang" styles of language slow you down. As stated by many above, be yourself. You are far ahead of many of us in here. You speak two languages that I'm aware of and you speak them well. Your English is really strong. Learning all the slang words used (for example) in English would be a huge, if not impossible effort, considering all the different countries speaking their own style of English. I write most of my songs in the street vernacular form. Things like "nuthin'" in place of "nothing." I do it because it's the way I typically talk, meaning I don't even use my native language properly..lol.........I think you should stay "you" in how you write. Write the lyrics in the style you normally talk in. Stay who you are. If you don't, those of us in here will know it. People like Dylan, Cash, Joanie Mitchell, Lightfoot, Bob Segar and on and on (and you can't leave out Leonard Cohen) all speak/sing in their own style. They're not really concerned about how someone else has said something. They say it in their own way.

 

That is probably about as good a piece of advice I can get. I will adhere to it once I have learned more about the ins and outs of songwriting and singing

 

Lars

 

MP, have you posted and soundclips with your new SJ?? Do you like it?

['Scales]

 

By the way, if I ever go to Australia I need to find my alter ego

 

There'll be extra snags on the barby and coldies in the esky mate!

 

Aussies are like Swedes (we appreciate tennis, suntans, ABBA, )...only fatter.

[Cougar]

So my question is, do you think I would sound fake if I wrote lyrics with similar wordings, but sung in an apparent non native English speaking accent?

 

I'm not so sure the non-native English is so apparent, but no, if you write and sing in English, you can use English slang or colloquialisms. I'm a native English speaker and I don't typically speak like your initial example, but I might sing like that. If I sang.

[Lars68]

As an example, here is an older song (freshly recorded) of mine inspired by Springsteen, but not necessarily done to imitate him. This one uses English I could hear myself speaking. Though, not a straight autobiographical song, more of an emotionally autobiographical one, I think the song could have benefitted from more of a "slang" approach.

 

 

I'm actually referencing Springsteen in this one. Not one of my better song, but still...

[j45nick]

I've noticed than when non-Americans (and even Americans)are singing in English, accents are basically "reduced down" unless you consciously accentuate them. Think Van Morrison doing "Brown-eyed Girl" and about 90% of what Jagger does. Of course, it's probably pretty conscious with them.

 

But their semi-American accents don't bother me at all when they sing, and that's generally the case. Just don't over-do it.

 

Even American country singers often over-emphasize accents they don't really have when they are singing, just for the effect.

 

Springsteen's singing voice is sort of non-regional in any case, so emulating it isn't problematic. Even groups like ABBA are not normally identifiable as non-native English speakers when they sing.

[OldCowboy]

The accent business is a funny thing. I taught a lot in the north and worked really hard to adopt the 'proper' accent and/or professorial dialect. When singing, though, all bets were off and the reversion was both pronounced and immediate. Couldn't seem to do anything about it. During my last few years in the classroom, I said to hell with it and started sounding like myself - got a lot of 'you're not from around here, are you...' from students, and was proud to reply 'I expect not'. Felt pretty good😌

[EuroAussie]

I think you should do it in Finnish instead.

[Mojorule]

I'm not sure that Dylan really talks like he writes songs. McCartney and Jagger certainly don't talk the way they write. It's a performance thing. Given the Springsteen angle, Lars, you might want to think about Mark Knopfler - he sought out Springsteen's engineer and pianist for Making Movies, so he's also consciously gone for the Springsteen sound at one stage.

 

Knopfler has a degree in English from Leeds University and studied journalism as well. You don't do either of those things and walk around saying 'That ain't workin'', 'Here come Johnny', 'I seen her standin' in the light', 'the big wheel keep on turnin'', etc. in everyday life. His speaking voice is effectively middle-class Tyneside, but his singing voice is a mid-Atlantic mash-up of Dylan, Springsteen and a sprinkling of working-class Geordie. It used to bother me at one time, but plenty of people think it's authentic enough. In any case, the entire Dire Straits back catalogue would not exist if he hadn't adopted that style of writing and singing.

 

Even English folk singers put on a voice. Richard Thompson is from West London, but for some reason known only to himself sings in a northern English accent (Cleveland/Tyneside borders to my ears). This is particularly disconcerting, if you stop to think about it, on the sublime 1952 Vincent Black Lightning, because he is effectively singing it in character as two Londoners. Billy Bragg used to sing in his own accent, but even he's gone mid-Atlantic since Mermaid Avenue. But then he's also been singing Woody Guthrie's words, and they might not work so well with a Barking drawl.

 

My advice: do what fits the characters and subject of the song.

[Lars68]

Thanks for all the replies! I think some of you misunderstood me, at least partially. I was not implying that I want to change my accent. It is what it is. I was talking about singing words that would not go along with the accent, words that I would normally not use myself. That is okey for a cover, but becomes an issue for an original song. I would be taking on a character that I obviously am not. Kind of like when Kevin Costner did Robin Hood with an American accent. Not believable...

 

I have only one English accent, and I can't mimic any other, be it British, American, Australian, Indian, Jamaican, or any other. Nope, just ain't gonna work.

 

Lars

[Mojorule]

Thanks for all the replies! I think some of you misunderstood me, at least partially. I was not implying that I want to change my accent. It is what it is. I was talking about singing words that would not go along with the accent, words that I would normally not use myself. That is okey for a cover, but becomes an issue for an original song. I would be taking on a character that I obviously am not. Kind of like when Kevin Costner did Robin Hood with an American accent. Not believable...

 

I have only one English accent, and I can't mimic any other, be it British, American, Australian, Indian, Jamaican, or any other. Nope, just ain't gonna work.

 

Lars

 

I followed you Lars, but in the cases of Knopfler, Thompson, Jagger and McCartney, the type of words they use changes when they sing, along with the accent. Knopfler couldn't seriously sing what he does in his natural accent.