Define "Old Time" Music

[Murph]

I'm going to a jam this weekend. Don't want to break any rules.

 

 

[Murph]

I'm thinking Shady Grove, East Virgina Blues, Goin Down The Road Feelin' Bad would be okay.

What about For You Blue?

[fortyearspickn]

My quick & dirty working definition of Old Time Music would be anything found in Alan Lomax' book  "The Folk Songs of North America".    It wouldn't include Beatles' songs. 

[zombywoof]

If it were me, I would be breaking out tunes ranging from "Long Black Veil" to a Mississippi Sheiks-esque version of "Sitting on Top of the World."  The Beatles  generally will not work because old-timey music ain't about the back beat. I would think though that if you get old timey music down and were good enough at coming up with arrangements in that style something like "I've Just Seen a Face" might just work.   Pretty much it is all about a strong rhythm guitar with that boom-chuck thing going on.  If there is nobody around with a standup bass you could always go Riley Puckett and throw in bass lines particularly when going from chord to chord. 

Edited April 14, 2022 by zombywoof

[dhanners623]

25 minutes ago, zombywoof said:

If it were me, I would be breaking out tunes ranging from "Long Black Veil" to a Mississippi Sheiks-esque version of "Sitting on Top of the World."  The Beatles  generally will not work because old-timey music ain't about the back beat. I would think though that if you get old timey music down and were good enough at coming up with arrangements in that style something like "I've Just Seen a Face" might just work.   Pretty much it is all about a strong rhythm guitar with that boom-chuck thing going on.  If there is nobody around with a standup bass you could always go Riley Puckett and throw in bass lines particularly when going from chord to chord. 

I would be VERY hesitant to trot out any arrangement of a Beatles tune at an old-time jam. We like to think that when it comes to music, there are no rules (other than, “Don’t Suck”) but when it comes to bluegrass and old-time, there are, indeed, rules. Or at least some standards of etiquette, to-wit: http://canaaninstitute.org/mikesmusicblog/came-across-this-list-of-jam-etiquette-guidelines/

or: https://www.blueridgemusicnc.com/listen-and-learn/jam-etiquette/

[E-minor7]

Never shy away from a geezer-rock jam. They can be incredible strong, , , and beautiful too.

Core-songs from the big book on that shelf would be : 

Proud Mary - YES ! everyone immediately recognizes themselves and each other. . 

Not Fade Away will call people on floor

Heard It Through The Grape Wine will make them stay there

The Weight (though players at such gatherings typically throw themselves into the chorus with loads of passion but no idea of the real vox-arrangement - THERE ARE 5 STEPS !)

The Midnight Special - at this point folks get a bit loaded - they are having one heck of a good time

Get Back is bound to take cones, , , count For You blue in - perhaps in a lower key ?

How about a masculine run of Nutbush City Limits - slower, lower, tougher. .   

Do they have enough humour to embrace Please Mister Postman - of course with the excellent counterpoint vocals in place

After Midnight can't be avoided - now most participants are downright happy - even the criers' sad tears roll with some alternative joy

A Whiter Shade of Pale will bring the emotions further forward - includes everybody - also those who don't want to be included

So will this one

Then a fiery Who Do You Love as the grand finale. Where should it go wrong !?. .

                                                                              It's all yours - let's hear what happens

 

Encore - a looooong wilder and wilder then tamed and calmed down Like a Hurricane

[dhanners623]

9 minutes ago, E-minor7 said:

Never shy away from a geezer-rock jam. They can be incredible strong, , , and beautiful too.

Core-songs from the big book on that shelf would be : 

Proud Mary - YES ! everyone immediately recognizes themselves and each other. . 

Not Fade Away will call people on floor

Heard It Through The Grape Wine will make them stay there

The Weight (though players at such gatherings typically throw themselves into the chorus with loads of passion but no idea of the real vox-arrangement - THERE ARE 5 STEPS !)

The Midnight Special - at this point folks get a bit loaded - they are having one heck of a good time

Get Back is bound to take cones, , , count For You blue in - perhaps in a lower key ?

How about a masculine run of Nutbush City Limits - slower, lower, tougher. .   

Do they have enough humour to embrace Please Mister Postman - of course with the excellent counterpoint vocals in place

After Midnight can't be avoided - now most participants are downright happy - even the criers' sad tears roll with some alternative joy

A Whiter Shade of Pale will bring the emotions further forward - includes everybody - also those who don't want to be included

So will this one

Then a fiery Who Do You Love as the grand finale. Where should it go wrong !?. .

                                                                              It's all yours - let's hear what happens

 

Encore - a looooong wilder and wilder then tamed and calmed down Like a Hurricane

Murph asked us to define “old-time.” I’m not sure any of those fall in that category, except maybe “Midnight Special.”

If you’re playing an old-time jam, you may only get a shot at calling four or five tunes, depending on how many people are in the circle.

[fortyearspickn]

Em7,  you may have just misunderstood the anachronism  'Old Timey'.     It's really a 'genre' of sorts.  Probably written before the 20th century,  un-amplified".  Not Americana,  Country Western, Gospel or Blues.  Something the New Lost City Ramblers  or Doc Watson would do, but not the mainstay of Cash, Haggard, Willie, or even Ringo's  'They're Gonna Put Me In The Movies" !    Not geezer-rock.  More like 'ballads'. 

[E-minor7]

44 minutes ago, dhanners623 said:

Murph asked us to define “old-time.” I’m not sure any of those fall in that category, except maybe “Midnight Special.”

If you’re playing an old-time jam, you may only get a shot at calling four or five tunes, depending on how many people are in the circle.

 

14 minutes ago, fortyearspickn said:

Em7,  you may have just misunderstood the anachronism  'Old Timey'.     It's really a 'genre' of sorts.  Probably written before the 20th century,  un-amplified".  Not Americana,  Country Western, Gospel or Blues.  Something the New Lost City Ramblers  or Doc Watson would do, but not the mainstay of Cash, Haggard, Willie, or even Ringo's  'They're Gonna Put Me In The Movies" !    Not geezer-rock.  More like 'ballads'. 

Ouh, I see - Thanx. Don't think we have that term here.

Might still be wrong, but how about ~

Or the slightly updated

[Dave F]

Now you’re getting into show tunes. 

[PrairieSchooner]

[zombywoof]

2 hours ago, dhanners623 said:

I would be VERY hesitant to trot out any arrangement of a Beatles tune at an old-time jam. We like to think that when it comes to music, there are no rules (other than, “Don’t Suck”) but when it comes to bluegrass and old-time, there are, indeed, rules. Or at least some standards of etiquette, to-wit: http://canaaninstitute.org/mikesmusicblog/came-across-this-list-of-jam-etiquette-guidelines/

or: https://www.blueridgemusicnc.com/listen-and-learn/jam-etiquette/

I don't know Bro.  We once broke out a version of "Paint t Black" which went into waltz time during the bridge with a kazoo sitting in for the the sitar and have played "I've Just Seen a Face" with a banjo and fiddle joining in.  

 While it ain't Old Timey, check this out.  Shows the possibilities.

 

[tpbiii]

The more recent common definition of "OLD TIME" is really actually pretty new, a form that evolved out of the folk revival.  Fiddle and banjo centered string band session music.  The modern form is mostly populated by claw-hammer banjo style campaigned bu Oak Publications -- banjo for muggles.  It is sort of related to the mountain  string band music practiced around places like Galax VA, but more refined and less powerful.  These sessions have singing, but generally not too much.  The generally get in a key -- A or D - and do fiddle tune after fiddle tune.

If not that, then probably heavy of Carter Family.  I love to jam that vocal stuff with friends. 

 

Last it might be just "folk revival" stuff.

All three can be fun. 

Let us know how it goes.

Best,

-Tom

[Sgt. Pepper]

One thing is for sure, you need to be wearing overalls to be playing it, and shoes are optional.

Edited April 14, 2022 by Sgt. Pepper

[E-minor7]

1 hour ago, Dave F said:

Now you’re getting into show tunes. 

Ooopps, will rewinds fast

1 hour ago, PrairieSchooner said:

, , , and keep quiet while learning for a now. 

One last try/sigh : Blue Moon of Kentucky ?

[QuestionMark]

42 minutes ago, tpbiii said:

The more recent common definition of "OLD TIME" is really actually pretty new, a form that evolved out of the folk revival.  Fiddle and banjo centered string band session music.  The modern form is mostly populated by claw-hammer banjo style campaigned bu Oak Publications -- banjo for muggles.  It is sort of related to the mountain  string band music practiced around places like Galax VA, but more refined and less powerful.  These sessions have singing, but generally not too much.  The generally get in a key -- A or D - and do fiddle tune after fiddle tune.

If not that, then probably heavy of Carter Family.  I love to jam that vocal stuff with friends. 

 

Last it might be just "folk revival" stuff.

All three can be fun. 

Let us know how it goes.

Best,

-Tom

If it is Old Timey, it is indeed as Tom describes it.  Fiddle and claw hammer banjo tunes.  Not folk or c& w.   
 

I run/host a jam (that is presently on hiatus due to the COVID-19 pandemic.  Old Timey is fiddle and claw hammer banjo purist.  Nothing else.

My jam has numerous rooms of music.  The Old Timey jammers go off by themselves and okay the described.

The folk jammers do folk and some c&w, bluegrass, and maybe an easy Beatle song.

The bluegrass jammers do bluegrass, anything Bill Monroe, Allison Krause, or new or old bluegrass.

The c&w jammers do anything old country  and Chris Stapleton.

The eclectic (anything goes) jammers do all of the above and anything else also goes including complex Beatles.

That’s how my jam is.

If it is an old time jam, rather than an old Timey jam…it may just be talking about it’s just a jam.  Folk type music.  Watch out though if it says old Timey…it’s just fiddle and claw hammer music and they are usually purists of that genre.

Let us know what you find.

 

QM aka “ Jazzman”  Jeff

 

 

 

 

Edited April 14, 2022 by QuestionMark

[scriv58]

The motion picture “ O Brother where art thou?” was set in the 1930s, and they were talking about old timey music- so perhaps it is defined by generational nostalgia.

[scriv58]

http://mikeseeger.info/music.html

[Murph]

There are no rules, it's just an "old music" acoustic jam, meaning my daughter can sing "Big Yellow Taxi".

I've got some pretty old covers in mind, though.

And you know, when somebody MY AGE says "old".....

[JWG4927]

5 hours ago, E-minor7 said:

 

Ouh, I see - Thanx. Don't think we have that term here.

Might still be wrong, but how about ~

She did better as Marsha Brady's mom. Thank god for Maca putting a voice to it.

9 hours ago, Murph said:

I'm going to a jam this weekend. Don't want to break any rules.

Get ready for a whole sht- load of 4/4.

Boresville.   Bring lots of coffee.

[Sgt. Pepper]

Do some Mozart, that’s pretty old.

[BluesKing777]

13 hours ago, Murph said:

I'm going to a jam this weekend. Don't want to break any rules.

 

 

 

 

Wiki: 

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Old-time_music

 

A bit of square dancing! Swing those partners round and round....😁

BluesKing777.

[QuestionMark]

6 hours ago, Murph said:

There are no rules, it's just an "old music" acoustic jam, meaning my daughter can sing "Big Yellow Taxi".

I've got some pretty old covers in mind, though.

And you know, when somebody MY AGE says "old".....

Sounds good!  Enjoy!

 

QM aka "Jazzman" Jeff

[zombywoof]

It is not about the tunes you pick to play.  It is about how you approach them.  Again, for "old timey" stuff the guitar becomes strictly a rhythm instrument - a time keeper.  During spring and summer I hit an monthly open mic.  When I show up I do two things.  I put my usual blues on the back burner mainly because I want to stick with stuff others are more likely to know.  Second, I lay off the fingerpicking.  As I tend to run melody, harmony and bass lines at the same time we can end up tripping over one another making old timey music a lot more cacophonous than it normally is .   What I have figured out is to arrange tunes so they fit in with an old timey band.  So, as example, I will play something like Dylan's "Don't Think Twice" Carter style.  To me this is actually a compromise  as Maybelle played the melody with the bass notes which elevates the guitar above being more or less a rhythm instrument.  And granted the Dylan tune ain't a hundred years old like "Shady Grove".  But that gets me back to my original point that a bit of music genre shape shifting can be a lot of fun.  It is not the lyrics or melody but again the way you approach a song which defines what category you end up placing it in.  

Edited April 15, 2022 by zombywoof

[egoidealmusic]

For orginal "old time" I think of the Carter Family playing "No Depression" through Doc Watson.  But I could also think of something like certail Uncle Tupelo songs (like their cover of "No Depression") that were conjuring that sound.  No help at all, but just a thought.