Greeny Humbuckers

[IanHenry]

Interesting development in the Gibson Pickup Shop, I see they are starting to sell the "Greeny" humbucker.  I was waiting for more stock of the Greeny Les Paul to arrive in the U.K, but now I'll get some of those pickups and fit them into a previously unloved 2014 Les Paul Traditional that's been lying in its case from new, and I think I'll have a better Greeny than the ones they are selling.

I've never changed pickups in a guitar before so this could be an interesting experience.  

[Sgt. Pepper]

3 hours ago, IanHenry said:

Interesting development in the Gibson Pickup Shop, I see they are starting to sell the "Greeny" humbucker.  I was waiting for more stock of the Greeny Les Paul to arrive in the U.K, but now I'll get some of those pickups and fit them into a previously unloved 2014 Les Paul Traditional that's been lying in its case from new, and I think I'll have a better Greeny than the ones they are selling.

I've never changed pickups in a guitar before so this could be an interesting experience.  

If you can solder its easy. I used to rip out stock pups a week after I got a guitar, except on my B B King. 

Edited August 25, 2023 by Sgt. Pepper

[NighthawkChris]

I'd practice on a "junk" guitar before attempting to mess up a LP.  Your hand if not careful can burn insulation, possibly those poly caps if you got those, and even the nitro if you touch the iron to it.  Not to discourage, but see what your current capabilities with the iron are is my recommendation.  Practice makes perfect of course.  Good luck! 

Edited August 25, 2023 by NighthawkChris

[Pinch]

This whole Greeny thing is starting to feel played out.

[Dub-T-123]

22 minutes ago, NighthawkChris said:

I'd practice on a "junk" guitar before attempting to mess up a LP.  Your hand if not careful can burn insulation, possibly those poly caps if you got those, and even the nitro if you touch the iron to it.  Not to discourage, but see what your current capabilities with the iron are is my recommendation.  Practice makes perfect of course.  Good luck! 

As long as he doesn’t mess up the finish it’s really pretty low risk. If he burns a cap he’s out like $.05

 

My advice is to go into it with a proper soldering iron which is powerful enough to create a proper joint on the pot housing. 
 

A powerful iron compared to a weak one is kindof like cooking a steak on a ripping hot cast iron skillet vs an aluminum non stick pan. When the steak hits the cast iron, the cast iron is hefty enough to stay hot. When the steak hits the aluminum the pan cools down considerably and has to work hard to come back up to temp 

[IanHenry]

Soldering's not a problem, I spent a short time teaching Electronics, but thanks for the advice 🙂

I am torn between the Gibson pickups and a chap here in the UK called Alan Dingwall who makes some that get pretty good reviews by people with experience of the real guitar:

 Spiritual Home | Spirit Pickups

There's also Bare Knuckles who do an out-of-phase humbucker which the late Gary Moore used once he'd had to sell Greeny:

Designed to replicate the tones of Peter Green's famous '59 Les Paul complete with legendary out-of-phase tones Designed to replicate the tones of Peter Green's famous '59 Les Paul complete with legendary out-of-phase tones | Bare Knuckle Pickups

Quite a competitive niche market I think. 

 

 

[Sgt. Pepper]

11 minutes ago, IanHenry said:

Soldering's not a problem, I spent a short time teaching Electronics, but thanks for the advice 🙂

I am torn between the Gibson pickups and a chap here in the UK called Alan Dingwall who makes some that get pretty good reviews by people with experience of the real guitar:

 Spiritual Home | Spirit Pickups

There's also Bare Knuckles who do an out-of-phase humbucker which the late Gary Moore used once he'd had to sell Greeny:

Designed to replicate the tones of Peter Green's famous '59 Les Paul complete with legendary out-of-phase tones Designed to replicate the tones of Peter Green's famous '59 Les Paul complete with legendary out-of-phase tones | Bare Knuckle Pickups

Quite a competitive niche market I think. 

 

 

Can't you just buy a push pull switch/pot to make it go out of phase. $25 bucks verses $250? Just a thought. Its gonna be out of phase anyway.

Edited August 25, 2023 by Sgt. Pepper

[IanHenry]

13 minutes ago, Sgt. Pepper said:

Can't you just buy a push pull switch/pot to make it go out of phase. $25 bucks verses $250? Just a thought. Its gonna be out of phase anyway.

I suppose that's one option.  I did try reversing the magnet on one of my guitars a while ago but I was never quite satisfied with how that went, the videos I've seen of the Greeny guitars sound far better, but of course, you're relying on other variables with that.  I've previously always been a bit dubious about changing pickups because you really don't know how it's going to sound until you've actually done it.

[Dub-T-123]

I remember when you did that you were dissatisfied with the volume drop when OOP. Just letting you know it’s gonna be the same way and the way people make it work is by having an overdriven compressed tube amp and using the volume controls

[Dub-T-123]

Btw keep in mind that while OOP you don’t need both volume pots maxed out. If one is backed off you get less cancellation. So you can further shape the sound that way

[IanHenry]

4 hours ago, Dub-T-123 said:

I remember when you did that you were dissatisfied with the volume drop when OOP. Just letting you know it’s gonna be the same way and the way people make it work is by having an overdriven compressed tube amp and using the volume controls

There's an interesting Andertons video demonstrating Montey's pickups out-of-phase humbuckers and "The Captain" adds some drive when demonstrating the middle position and I thought that was a wee bit sly, at 12.42:

 

 

[Mr. C.O. Jones]

Funny thing, I remember passing on a few other Les Paul's wich where also interesting precisely because they didn't have the 59 Tribute HB's. I preferred the looks of all of them over those of my 14 Traditional. But the neck and the pickups and the overall feel had me hooked. Even though, the setup and the nut where awful. I still dislike the colour choice of the binding (pink-ish) and the flaming on the top, but I could swear it got a little bit yellower where my arm rests and at the neck. 

Long story short I swaped many things on that one, all hardware to nickel, HB covers nickel and the plastics for historic ones. But what really made a huge difference was the all new wiring with 500k (300k stock if I remember right) pots and luxe bumblebee caps, a Graphtec nut, and the proper setup. Especially the pickup height adjustment.

If I was after the greeny sound I'd rather consider to do a out of phase mod with the existing pickups, although that might be a tad more complicated.

Anyway, I think your Trad coud benefit hugely from a good quality wiring harness. I think that could bring those 59 Tributes to their full potential. Monty's has some fine harnesses too. 

My favourite Gibson Pickups for sure, here's one of the few who really get the best out of them:

 

Edited August 26, 2023 by Mr. C.O. Jones

[Mr. C.O. Jones]

Man I wish I had one of those back when I did mine, looks dang fine and explains technically the benefits of this mod.

https://www.montysguitars.com/collections/wiring-looms/products/50s-wiring-loom-for-les-paul

 

Monty’s 50s wiring loom is the perfect way to upgrade the wiring on your Les Paul style guitar using premium components and a traditional layout.

Please note that these wiring harnesses are different from our 335 and SG style wiring harnesses
(available here) and that they are not easily interchangeable.

It is our -naturally incredibly humble- opinion that one of the best upgrades you can make to a Les Paul style guitar is to fit one of Monty’s 50s wiring looms (other than fitting a set of Monty’s PAFs of course). The key difference between a modern wiring loom and a 50s wiring loom lies in the relationship between the volume and tone pots. In simple terms, whereas a modern wiring loom connects the tone pots to the input of the volume pot, a 50s wiring loom connects them to the output of the volume pot.

While this might not seem like a huge change, the tonal impact is massive. 50s wiring allows you to retain clarity as you roll down the volume pot, much like a treble bleed circuit (but without its inherent disadvantages). It also changes the response of the tone knobs, creating a slight interaction with the volume pot as you turn the tone pot down. The net effect is transformative; whereas modern wiring can make humbuckers (and P90s) sound muddy as soon as you start to turn anything down, a 50s loom allows the sound to beautifully clean up in response to the volume and tone knobs.

Our looms are made with only the best components: 500k CTS audio taper pots, vintage-correct wire and two of our very special Russian NOS Paper in oil capacitors. Available with either a 0.015uf or 0.022uf cap in for the neck position.

Most Les Paul will need long-shaft pots, but we can also make these harnesses with short-shaft pots if required.

Instructions for installation are included with all our harnesses, but please be aware that it will involve the tiniest amount of soldering. If you aren’t comfortable doing this yourself, please bring your guitar to Monty’s or any other qualified tech; we will be happy to help you install it.

Please note that the loom dimensions are measured from a Gibson Les Paul. Whilst it should fit most import LP style guitars, we can't guarantee that this will always be the case. Import guitars may also require some minor modification to accommodate imperial thread pots. If you have any questions, please do drop us an email.

[IanHenry]

7 hours ago, Mr. C.O. Jones said:

Funny thing, I remember passing on a few other Les Paul's wich where also interesting precisely because they didn't have the 59 Tribute HB's. I preferred the looks of all of them over those of my 14 Traditional. But the neck and the pickups and the overall feel had me hooked. Even though, the setup and the nut where awful. I still dislike the colour choice of the binding (pink-ish) and the flaming on the top, but I could swear it got a little bit yellower where my arm rests and at the neck. 

Long story short I swaped many things on that one, all hardware to nickel, HB covers nickel and the plastics for historic ones. But what really made a huge difference was the all new wiring with 500k (300k stock if I remember right) pots and luxe bumblebee caps, a Graphtec nut, and the proper setup. Especially the pickup height adjustment.

If I was after the greeny sound I'd rather consider to do a out of phase mod with the existing pickups, although that might be a tad more complicated.

Anyway, I think your Trad coud benefit hugely from a good quality wiring harness. I think that could bring those 59 Tributes to their full potential. Monty's has some fine harnesses too. 

My favourite Gibson Pickups for sure, here's one of the few who really get the best out of them:

 

I specifically wanted a 2014 Traditional because of the 59 Tribute pickups, I was lucky in that my favourite Gibson dealer had 5 new ones in stock, despite it being 2015 at the time.

It's a little ironic that I'm thinking of changing the pickups on a guitar that I bought because of the pickups.

The guitar has lain in its case almost from new because the month after I got it I bought an R8, so, in essence, I've got a brand new 9-year-old guitar, which is a bit sad because it's a beauty 

 

[sparquelito]

IanHenry,

Your 2014 Traditional may have the Quick Connect wiring.

If so, you can order the spare Quick Connect wire sets from Amazon or Sweetwater, and avoid any soldering on the pots.

You'll still have to solder the new Quick Connect harness mid-stream of the wires that come with the Greenie pickup, but that a lot easier to do outside of the guitar, and on your work bench.
After that it's plug-and-play.

Check and see if your guitar is so equipped.

🙂

[IanHenry]

On 8/27/2023 at 10:27 AM, sparquelito said:

IanHenry,

Your 2014 Traditional may have the Quick Connect wiring.

If so, you can order the spare Quick Connect wire sets from Amazon or Sweetwater, and avoid any soldering on the pots.

You'll still have to solder the new Quick Connect harness mid-stream of the wires that come with the Greenie pickup, but that a lot easier to do outside of the guitar, and on your work bench.
After that it's plug-and-play.

Check and see if your guitar is so equipped.

🙂

Thanks for the suggestion, but the guitar has traditional wiring so that's not an option.

[badbluesplayer]

Dang, I'd better check my looms whilst I have the chance...

[Dub-T-123]

On 8/28/2023 at 12:21 PM, badbluesplayer said:

Dang, I'd better check my looms whilst I have the chance...

Lol yes those guys are pretty proud of themselves. And that dork who’s putting insulation on the grounded insulation between the pots 😂

 

Looks cute I guess

[Karloff]

On 8/25/2023 at 10:40 AM, Pinch said:

This whole Greeny thing is starting to feel played out.

I agree

[Mr. C.O. Jones]

Yup, played out it surely is. Especially, when you think about it, Peter still sounded like Peter even on a Strat.

On the other hand the out of phase humbucker sound is a thing, but owning a Strat I don't really fell the need to make one of my Lesters "quacky".

What I wanted to point out in my other post is that it seems that Ian enjoys his R8 but his 14 Trad not so much. And one sure way to bring them closer in performance and sound is 50's wiring with the right pot and cap values. If you use the knobs that is.

I have a hard time to buy into all this holy grail P.A.F thing anyway. Especially when it's not a Gibson pickup. To me a Gibson, Fender or whatever brand should be equipped with their brands pu's (OCD?). And I for one think that the 57 Classic and Burstbucker pu's do a very good job. The 59 Tributes are just a tad more thin (in a good way), I like low output with good string separation but still very punchy with overdrive. 

Another funny thing is all of the other brands that make better Strats and Lesters etc. than Fender and Gibson.

[IanHenry]

Interesting video regarding Peter Green's guitar setup by Dave Simpson.  Dave seems a little on the eccentric side but he really does get deep into his subject: