Sheepdog1969 Posted January 5 Share Posted January 5 Apparently, there are digital 8 track (or more) recorders that can be purchased that are programs that use a laptop/pc as the mixing/recording/storage medium. From my understanding, the only "hardware" required is the input interface, which allows RCA/XLR (and possibly 1/2") connections to be converted into USB input, (and presumably converts those analogue signals into digital). I would love to get some recommendations from real world users of these pc based mixer/recorders before I make a purchase. This will be used, primarily, in my home "studio", but will need to "travel" to other locations to record, from time to time. I will be using it to record my original compositions, where I will be playing each instrument and singing all vocals on each recording. These recordings, (and the corresponding sheet music for said), will be used to market/sell my original compositions to far more talented performing and recording musicians/bands, locally and beyond. I will also be using it to record ambiance, background music, sound effects, etc., for social media content created locally, (including independent film scoring). I will also be using it to produce "demo's" for some local musicians, and potentially record some live performances. My needs are as follows: 1. Be able to record (digital) compositions, one track (instrument) at a time, and obviously be able to listen to the already recorded track(s) while recording each new track. Have a minimum of 8 tracks w/stereo output, (or 16 tracks, if an 8 track recorder really means 4 stereo tracks). 2. Be able to record each track at optimum recording levels, but then be able to adjust the level of each track (in post production) in order to achieve a balanced composition, and then save/record that final mix. 3. Be able to use RCA, XLR, 1/2" analogue input sources and potentially MIDI/digital sources. 4. Be able to produce clean/low THD Stereo final products in common digital formats. 5. Be able to "record" 7 already recorded and mixed tracks onto the 8th track (for an 8 track recorder), thus allowing for more tracks to be added. (This was how we used to turn an 8 track recorder into a poor man's 14 track, or more). 6. Be able to operate this program/application "off-line"/without an internet connection, from time to time, when and where connectivity may be an issue. 7. Lastly, not have to spend a small fortune to buy and operate this recorder. Any help or advice from those of you who are currently using these types of multi track digital recorders, would be greatly appreciated. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pinch Posted January 5 Share Posted January 5 Google "Digital Audio Workstation". A DAW is essentially an entire studio in program form, so you need a DAW program, a sound card with inputs/outputs, and a computer with a decent CPU. You can add as many tracks as you like/as many as the computer can handle. 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Murph Posted January 5 Share Posted January 5 I have an old Tascam DP-01FX from the old days. Never used it much. I did multi-track on an iPad mini a few times with Garageband, but it was all done with an Apogee mic. This was recorded with an iPad mini/Garageband and uses 7. I played, guitar bass mandolin square neck resonator vocal vocal and some real accordion at the end. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Karloff Posted January 5 Share Posted January 5 6 minutes ago, Murph said: I have an old Tascam DP-01FX from the old days. Never used it much. I did multi-track on an iPad mini a few times with Garageband, but it was all done with an Apogee mic. This was recorded with an iPad mini/Garageband and uses 7. I played, guitar bass mandolin square neck resonator vocal vocal and some real accordion at the end. I really enjoyed that. great job ... the song, playing, vocals & video. impressive ... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cougar Posted January 6 Share Posted January 6 On 1/5/2024 at 3:49 AM, Pinch said: A DAW is essentially an entire studio in program form.... Exactly. Nowadays (and for quite a few years now) you can load up a program to your computer that turns it into a recording studio. I'm using Cubase Elements, which is around 100 bucks. As mentioned, you'll also want a USB audio interface like a Focusrite Scarlett. I plugged my synth straight into the Scarlett, but for guitar playing, you'll likely want a mic. Multitracking is a kick! 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sheepdog1969 Posted January 7 Author Share Posted January 7 On 1/5/2024 at 11:29 AM, ghost_of_fl said: I have done a lot of home recording. One thing I could not live without is a USB interface. I use a Focusrite which gets the job done. I have the lowest basic model. It's great. Why an interface? Because it reduces latency. That's the delay between the time when you play a note and the time it gets recorded on the computer. Without an interface, you would need to compensate for latency which is a huge pain. For a DAW, I use FL Studio. I'm weird with that, it's not a popular choice but it's the one I know. Here is an example of a recording made with FL Studio: That's the very basic equipment you need to multitrack on a computer. A decent PC/laptop, a DAW and an interface. With a DAW the number of tracks is practically infinite. There is no need to bounce tracks. You mentioned "1/2" analog input devices" - did you mean 1/4" like a guitar plug? Or 1/8" like headphones connector? Don't want to spend a small fortune? The interface is pretty cheap. In my case, the software cost me as follows: $100 gets you in the door but you can't use external sources. Another $100 and I can use external sources Another $100 got me a bunch of very useful plugins So in my case, $300 for the software (I could have stopped at $200) and maybe $120 for the interface. Also you need a decent computer so whatever that costs you. Figure $800-1500 for a good powerful PC that won't crap itself on larger compositions. Hope this helps. Yup, I meant 1/4" input, (like a guitar cord), not 1/8" (like head phones). Gee, a 1/2" plug would be a bit large, right? Sometimes my brain seems to screw up the basics when I am trying to figure out something that's new to me. Thanks so much for your advice and help. You have just created my new shopping list. Started looking today for a laptop/pc that I can dedicate specifically for this application. Next will be searching for an interface that meets my needs. And so on, and so on... Thanks again!! 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Larsongs Posted January 7 Share Posted January 7 (edited) You will a need a powerful Computer which needs to be compatible with the Recording Software you choose. You will need an Interface.. Focusrite is probably the most popular, work excellent, are reasonably priced & have great Tech Support which is really important. As you will need it at some point. 8 Tracks start around $500.00 for Scarlett’s.. Which are excellent.. And around $900.00 for 8 Track Clarretts which are Pro Standard.. Both make outstanding Recordings.. You will need Recording Software. The best are Logic Pro X made by Apple. Which works seamlessly on Apple Computers.. No yearly fees for Updates or Tech Support.. Tech Support is with Apple & is based in USA.. . Also Pro Tools which is still the Recording Industry Standard.. Which is great but requires annual Renewal Fees for Updates & Tech Support from the Philippines.. I’ve used Pro Tools for 12 years.. Cost over $500.00. I don’t like Annual Fees & Philippine Tech Support! I’ve used Logic Pro X for 4 years.. Cost under $400.00. I have Apple Computers so it’s a no Brainer for me having their seamless Software, no annual Fees for updates & Apple USA Tech Support.. Apple will Pre Install Logic on your new Apple Computer. There are tons of Recording Software that are good too. All require steep learning curves.. Excellent Tech Support is really important.. Especially if you’re new to DAW Recording.. Choose wisely.. Edited January 7 by Larsongs 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jdgm Posted January 8 Share Posted January 8 (edited) Suggest you also download AUDACITY which is excellent free mastering software - and has some nifty new add-ons in the latest version. I completely trust Audacity and have never had any problem with that (or VLC Media Player). Edited January 8 by jdgm 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Larsongs Posted January 8 Share Posted January 8 There are all kinds of Choices.. It all depends on what you want it to do & what kind of finished product you’re trying to produce.. Is it a hobby, are you wanting to make Demos or are you trying to produce Commercial quality Records? But, I started Recording back in the 70’s on a Sony Reel to Reel & have gone through the various Technologies since then.. I’ve also Recorded in Pro 64 Track Studios & just about everything in between.. I now use Pro Tools & Apple Logic Pro X. Back about 2005 I upgraded from 16 Track ADAT Studio Setup to a 24 Track Tascam 2488 PortaStudio.. They were very easy to use, not super expensive & didn’t need a Computer or any Recording Software.. Fully Self-Contained Portable Studio.. They’re still made & for many a good choice as it doesn’t have much of a learning curve. Around 2005 we Recorded our first Album.. “The Larson Brothers” - “Don’t Leave My Heart Alone”.. Here is the title Cut which was recorded on the 2488.. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pinch Posted January 9 Share Posted January 9 Also, never ever tell anyone you print sheet music of your demos. Your success or lack thereof in the music business WILL depend on it. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sheepdog1969 Posted January 11 Author Share Posted January 11 On 1/8/2024 at 2:11 PM, Larsongs said: I upgraded from 16 Track ADAT Studio Setup to a 24 Track Tascam 2488 PortaStudio.. Well Larsongs, your suggestion may have just changed my mind about using a computer as my studio. I started looking into Tascam, and found a version I may just have to buy. (possibly a used one because they are so affordable) A New Tascam DP-24SD 24-Track Digital Portastudio Multi-Track Audio Recorder , 8 XLR Inputs, Effects, Mastering, Color Screen runs around $508 + tax, and used ones are available for around $400. That's far less cost than going the computer route. I'm not opposed to using a computer, and may eventually get there, but ease of use and start up costs have me leaning heavily towards a 24 track portastudio. (The DP-24SD uses a SD card rather than burning CD's, making for better flexibility regarding the digital files created.) Thanks again to all of you here for lending me your expertise and experience! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sheepdog1969 Posted January 11 Author Share Posted January 11 Just ordered the Tascam DP-24SD, used, for $453.60 total + a $30 dust cover. I should have it in my hands by 1/19/24. Can't wait to try it out!! Thank you all again! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rct Posted January 11 Share Posted January 11 I've used 2488, then 2488 Neo, and for the last 5 years or so DP-32SD. A good workflow that you get the hang of very quickly. Good stuff. rct 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Larsongs Posted January 11 Share Posted January 11 (edited) The 2488’s were great. The made great Recordings.. My main nit with the 2488 was the small Screen. Too hard for me to see. I hope by now you are able to connect to a large Video Monitor so you can see what you’re doing.. Congrats & have fun.. I look forward to hearing a Recording from you.. Edited January 11 by Larsongs 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brad1 Posted January 12 Share Posted January 12 I think you'll like it. I've had mine for 4-5 years and have really liked it. It has a small screen, but I can see if just fine. And I'm 62 and wear glasses. My first Tascam was the old 4 track, analog, cassette machine. I even had fun with that when I first got one 15 years ago. It will be everything you need to make some fine recordings. When you have the final product, you can make it into a WAVE file and it is easy to put that onto a CD if you so wish. It will also be ready to upload to SoundCloud or other music host sites. I made my first CD of songs a few years ago and was impressed with the ease of doing it. Congratulations! Hope it brings you hours of enjoyment. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Larsongs Posted January 12 Share Posted January 12 They are great.. The new ones don’t have the built in CD Recorder.. Not a big deal as Burnets are cheap.. After 4-5 years The tiny screen was too hard for me to work with.. I kept waiting for a usable USB connection for a full size video Monitor.. If Tascam would’ve come up it I’d probably still be using my old one… For that & many other reasons I moved on to Pro Tools & eventually Logic Pro X with a 27” Video Monitor.. Which is great for my old eyes.. That said, the 2488 is great to start with & may be all you’ll ever want & need to make really good Recordings…. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sheepdog1969 Posted January 12 Author Share Posted January 12 15 minutes ago, Larsongs said: The new ones don’t have the built in CD Recorder Per Tascam, "The DP-24SD employs SD/SDHC media. SD/SDHC cards provide secure shock resistance due to the absence of any moving parts. File format of the DP-24SD is FAT 16 or 32. The Portastudio recorded files can be accessed on your computer when connected via USB. " I found it odd that the USB interface only acts like an external drive when connected to a computer, but doesn't use the USB port to sync/mirror the display as well. Additionally, it appears that the DP-24SD cannot "write" directly to the USB connected computer while recording. It only allows the user to copy files already "written" to the 32GB SD card to the USB connected computer. I hope 32GB is enough recording space. Since old age has made me blind as a bat, I may need to use a swing arm mounted magnifier to read the tiny screen, lol. Frugality, I have found, oft comes at a price. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Larsongs Posted January 12 Share Posted January 12 I’ve gone from Reel to Reel, 4 Track Tascam Portastudios, 8 Track ADATS, Tascam 2488, Pro Tools & now Logic Pro X.. None of them are perfect.. But, all of them can record music excellently.. The rest is up to the musicians and the engineers.. The magnifying Glass will be a big help.. I’m really surprised Tascam hasn’t made it possible to sync to a Computer allowing you to at least use a larger video monitor… There was a guy on the old Tascam Forum that did figure out a way to do it.. But it was so complicated no one could figure out how to do it… I’d still be using my old 2488 if they would have…. They are great machines! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rct Posted January 12 Share Posted January 12 The Tascams are for people that don't want to use a DAW, for many reasons. Like me. Making a DP-32SD controllable over usb means making DAW software means managing and maintaining upgrades blah blah blah blah. Remember our TEAC/TASCAM 4 and 8 tracks? This idea is them today. Just as not perfect as they were, but if you have that workflow already, they are pretty much the same except for what comes out of the tape machine, which is an SD card. It doesn't need all the DAW nonsense, there is way too much of that stuff out there as it is. rct 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dub-T-123 Posted January 12 Share Posted January 12 On 1/5/2024 at 9:29 AM, ghost_of_fl said: I have done a lot of home recording. One thing I could not live without is a USB interface. I use a Focusrite which gets the job done. I have the lowest basic model. It's great. Why an interface? Because it reduces latency. That's the delay between the time when you play a note and the time it gets recorded on the computer. Without an interface, you would need to compensate for latency which is a huge pain. For a DAW, I use FL Studio. I'm weird with that, it's not a popular choice but it's the one I know. Here is an example of a recording made with FL Studio: That's the very basic equipment you need to multitrack on a computer. A decent PC/laptop, a DAW and an interface. With a DAW the number of tracks is practically infinite. There is no need to bounce tracks. You mentioned "1/2" analog input devices" - did you mean 1/4" like a guitar plug? Or 1/8" like headphones connector? Don't want to spend a small fortune? The interface is pretty cheap. In my case, the software cost me as follows: $100 gets you in the door but you can't use external sources. Another $100 and I can use external sources Another $100 got me a bunch of very useful plugins So in my case, $300 for the software (I could have stopped at $200) and maybe $120 for the interface. Also you need a decent computer so whatever that costs you. Figure $800-1500 for a good powerful PC that won't crap itself on larger compositions. Hope this helps. I should probably seek counseling for how much I dislike this song. That guy sounds like a 2” tall dancing monkey selling his soul for a dollar it sounds like it sounded bad, then they turned up the tape speed a bit Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Larsongs Posted January 13 Share Posted January 13 14 hours ago, rct said: The Tascams are for people that don't want to use a DAW, for many reasons. Like me. Making a DP-32SD controllable over usb means making DAW software means managing and maintaining upgrades blah blah blah blah. Remember our TEAC/TASCAM 4 and 8 tracks? This idea is them today. Just as not perfect as they were, but if you have that workflow already, they are pretty much the same except for what comes out of the tape machine, which is an SD card. It doesn't need all the DAW nonsense, there is way too much of that stuff out there as it is. rct I really liked & still like the 2488.. Great for what they are.. Pro Tools & Logic Pro X require more Gear, steep learning curves but are far more sophisticated & offer so much more for Recording, Mixing, Editing & Mastering.. Logic Pro X has no fees for upgrades.. They’re automatic.. One of my most favorites were the Tascam 4 Track Cassette PortaStudio’s… Easy to use & if you knew what you’re doing made really good Recordings. Fun way to Record.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rct Posted January 13 Share Posted January 13 9 hours ago, Larsongs said: I really liked & still like the 2488.. Great for what they are.. Pro Tools & Logic Pro X require more Gear, steep learning curves but are far more sophisticated & offer so much more for Recording, Mixing, Editing & Mastering.. Logic Pro X has no fees for upgrades.. They’re automatic.. One of my most favorites were the Tascam 4 Track Cassette PortaStudio’s… Easy to use & if you knew what you’re doing made really good Recordings. Fun way to Record.. The PortaSudios were great! I will go the computer way when I absolutely have to. rct Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Larsongs Posted January 13 Share Posted January 13 Over time I’ve evolved into spending 50% of my time being a Musician & 50% of my time being an Engr. If I had it all to do over I’d get a cheap little Recorder to record scratch demos.. Then save my money hire Pro Session Guys & go to Pro Recoding Studios & record the best songs I wrote.. Then record Professional Commercial Records.. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sheepdog1969 Posted January 14 Author Share Posted January 14 Got it today!! I am waiting on one more mic, and it's "off to the races.". I picked up a Sennheiser Professional e 609 Silver Super-Cardioid Microphone a few days ago for mic'ing amps and instruments, and should receive my Shure SM58S Cardioid Dynamic Vocal Microphone with On/Off Switch, Pneumatic Shock Mount, Spherical Mesh Grille with Built-in Pop Filter, by early next week. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
B.T. Posted January 19 Share Posted January 19 I’ve gone full circle! 😂 From Reel to Reel to several different portastudios finally to computer w/ Scarlet Focusrite interface. (My stuff is relatively simple - generally 6 or 8 tracks so I’ve stayed with GarageBand - don’t laugh! - and it suits me pretty well) I just recently dusted off the old reel to reels - started baking old tape and dumping to Digital. Gave out some pretty cool Christmas presents to “old” band members and family! What I found most amazing is that the tapes sounded incredible after all this time. Some were over 40 years old! At any rate - enjoy the new machine! Hope it works well for you! 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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