Murph Posted November 1, 2009 Share Posted November 1, 2009 Is all of the talk about Peavey buying Gibson over. I've been busy and haven't kept up, perhaps. I was thinking maybe Henry should just buy Peavey, and do the "Royal Flush"...... "Boom, boom, out goes the lights"........... "Flush your Peavey" day........ Just sayin'....... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dem00n Posted November 1, 2009 Share Posted November 1, 2009 There was an article of gibson saying the rumor wasnt true. Sorry no link. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DeVeeWee Posted November 2, 2009 Share Posted November 2, 2009 Who's safe these days...? Factories that guaranteed work for thousands of employees, for decennia, close down now. Nothing is safe in industry and no one is safe anymore! What'll happen is a restructuration one way or another, but we, as end users, will be able to buy the same high quality products as before...and life continues... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Californiaman Posted November 2, 2009 Share Posted November 2, 2009 There's a rumor going 'round. Fender is going to buy Gibson. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Riverside Posted November 2, 2009 Share Posted November 2, 2009 Safe from what? Bad paint? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thundergod Posted November 2, 2009 Share Posted November 2, 2009 Good ideam, then Peavey could stop killing their entire line of guitars and amps and start making the good stuff again (they have done some very nice guitars and amps in the past IMO) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Riverside Posted November 2, 2009 Share Posted November 2, 2009 Lest anyone get all dewey-eyed about continuity of ownership... http://www.sltrib.com/business/ci_13570302 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NeoConMan Posted November 2, 2009 Share Posted November 2, 2009 ... or dewey-eyed about continuity of their jobs once they depend solely on a labor union to save the day.... As soon as somebody says the word "strike" there are no longer any Good Guys in the fight. Whatever moral or ethical high ground the working man has is forfeited completely when that point is reached. Kinda like saving your marriage by threatening your spouse with divorce. Good luck with that. Anybody wanna take a wild-*** guess why Gibson closed Kalamazoo? Union labor. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Riverside Posted November 2, 2009 Share Posted November 2, 2009 From the "I missed the point entirely deptartment": ... or dewey-eyed about continuity... Unions got nothing to do with whether or not ownership goes down a path that removes the craftsmen from the craft. Ownership can (and often does) make decisions about how the product is made that is not fully cummunicated to the consumer. Ownership (in this circumstance) seems to care more about the bottom-line than they do about the product that ends up in the hands of the consumer. All hail the corporate musical instrument producer! Who gives a crap about the folks with the skills that are required to make a quality product? Somebody does - maybe not everyone. It seems like as long as these guitars are shiny enough, folks will pay thousands for them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NeoConMan Posted November 2, 2009 Share Posted November 2, 2009 From the "I missed the point entirely deptartment": ? Unions got EVERYthing to do with whether or not ownership goes down a path that removes the craftsmen from the craft. Ownership can (and often does) make decisions about how the product is made that is not fully cummunicated to the consumer because they OWN the damned thing and can do with it as they damned well please. Ownership IS the bottom-line. Unfortunately in this circumstance there's too wide a crevice between the 'smart guys' making the money decisions and the product that ends up in the hands of the consumer. Unfortunate indeed. So, calling a strike is gonna fix it? If I was Mr. Trombone Factory Owner and they called a strike, I'd fire every f-cking one of them immediately. If enough people stayed on to keep the company afloat I would compensate them handsomely. If not, they could all pound sand up their unemployed "striker" asses while I flew my lawyers and accountants to Tahiti on my jet for a strategy session to create my next business venture - trumpets maybe? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tbonesullivan Posted November 2, 2009 Share Posted November 2, 2009 Lest anyone get all dewey-eyed about continuity of ownership... http://www.sltrib.com/business/ci_13570302 As a trombonist and owning a Bach Stradivarius 42T for years, that whole situation made me want to wretch. What's happened now is that the foreign companies and even domestic companies can offer far better trombones than bach with better options. It's really sad, as if the previous consolidation of Bach, Conn, Selmer, King and other companies under one umbrella wasn't sad enough. Heck I've even heard rumors from people that steinway might want to purchase FMI (Fenders parent company) Also remember that Gibson itself was for years a subsidiary of CMI, which merged with that beer company and became Norlin. That's just the way things work. But again, the Bach strike just made me sad, and not just because it made it harder to find bach trombones and the quality went downhill. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Riverside Posted November 2, 2009 Share Posted November 2, 2009 But again' date=' the Bach strike just made me sad, and not just because it made it harder to find bach trombones and the quality went downhill.[/quote'] No, Really? I guess I just don't get it. Way back when, in my Business 101 class, we were taught that a company that was subject to a union, needed a union. For those who don't get it, go sit in a corner and think about that for a minute or two. Vincent Bach was once the gold standard for brass instruments. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tbonesullivan Posted November 2, 2009 Share Posted November 2, 2009 What happened to Bach was 'business as usual" for the people who took it over. They were simply trying to maximize profits, and were already devaluing the name and overworking the staff before the strike happened. On the other hand, the bach workers were extremely well-payed for what they did with good benefits that these days most white collar workers would be jealous of. The strike though showed that when dealing with some corporate entities it will not work because they put no value in craftsmanship. Without the craftsmen that were there for years, the quality of bach instruments went downhill... and now it is doubtful that they can match the quality of the years before the strike. It will also be hard for them to get it back when they've lost so much in terms of experienced staff. And of course, what really burns my buns is the whole China thing. I've tried some of the student models, and they are utter crap. In general student models were made with less resonant metals that were more durable, and also were a lot thicker metal, to be more resilient. What makes high end brass instruments so good is the time taken to hand hammer and braze the bell, as well as precision manufacturing of valve sections. That's something that you can't teach overnight. So, currently It looks like my next trombone will NOT be a Bach, much to my Chagrin. After seeing how Steinway/UMI/Conn-selmer/whatever handled it, I don't think I want to buy anything from them ever again. Thankfully now there are other companies that make high quality instruments that are inherently modular, so I can build my dream trombone without worrying about messing it up. If something doesn't work I can just change it out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hall Posted November 2, 2009 Share Posted November 2, 2009 Is all of the talk about Peavey buying Gibson over. I've been busy and haven't kept up' date=' perhaps. I was thinking maybe Henry should just buy Peavey, and do the "Royal Flush"...... "Boom, boom, out goes the lights"........... "Flush your Peavey" day........ Just sayin'....... [/quote'] Note who Fender just grabbed. Look up quick, guys. Groper Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DeVeeWee Posted November 2, 2009 Share Posted November 2, 2009 so...are we safe? Jocko...? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
charlie brown Posted November 2, 2009 Share Posted November 2, 2009 No, the Chinese are buying everything! ;>b CB Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DeVeeWee Posted November 2, 2009 Share Posted November 2, 2009 No' date=' the Chinese are buying everything! ;>b CB[/quote'] Charlie, well, they may............ever tried a Chinese guitar(compared to a Japanes one?) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hall Posted November 2, 2009 Share Posted November 2, 2009 Note who Fender just grabbed. Look up quick' date=' guys. Groper [/quote'] Warned is armed. Groper Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Murph Posted November 2, 2009 Author Share Posted November 2, 2009 Maybe their guitars are somewhat of a joke' date=' but the other side of their house can hold its own; especially the high end amps like the former 5150 (6505).[/quote'] I always wanted a 5150. I'm also a big fan of the Delta Blues. Can't do Chinese amps. :- Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Murph Posted November 2, 2009 Author Share Posted November 2, 2009 Note who Fender just grabbed. Look up quick' date=' guys. :- Groper [/quote'] Who? :- Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Silenced Fred Posted November 2, 2009 Share Posted November 2, 2009 I always wanted a 5150. I'm also a big fan of the Delta Blues. Can't do Chinese amps. :- I also am a fan of the delta blues, everyone makes fun of me for it, saying "I can't understand the true meaning" or "It is too simple" It speaks volumes to me at least :- Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
charlie brown Posted November 2, 2009 Share Posted November 2, 2009 Charlie' date=' well, they may............ever tried a Chinese guitar(compared to a Japanes one?)[/quote'] ....compared to an American one... ;>) Actually, I own mostly older USA Gibson, Epiphone (Vintage '66 Casino) Fender, Ric, and Gretsch. But, I DO have 3 Japanese (2 Duo-Jet Gretsch), 1 MIJ '61 SG, 1 Korean Epi Riviera, with mini's, and a Chinese made Riviera P-93LE....Damn nice guitar, for even twice the price, Is it a 335...no. But, for what it is/does, I have no complaints, at all. CB Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
milod Posted November 2, 2009 Share Posted November 2, 2009 Okay folks, I just wrote, then erased some 9 paragraphs of "why" in terms of current economic realities. But the bottom line? The paradigm of business and perception of what we wanna buy in a given type of item has changed with it. I don't care much for that, but it's a fact that has put U.S. business, workers and consumers at a horrid disadvantage across the board. A guitar forum is an appropriate place to discuss this because there are things about Gibson guitars that has meant a degree of quality and craftsmanship most of us consider important. Ain't it sad, though, that we're driven to talk about it because of certain realities? m Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Duende Posted November 2, 2009 Share Posted November 2, 2009 I think we will see, like we did with Japanese instruments, a rise in standards and reputation from the Chinese guitar makers over the coming years. There are already companies like Eastman that are flying the flag with their range of jazz guitars that I would consider as a buyer (now having played one and loving it) as an alternative to more established western brands :- (although I play pretty much blind folded on the day and let my ears and fingers choose!!) I think the 'good news' as with Japanese instruments, will be that the way they are viewed by the guitar buying public on the whole, always as something inferior and sub standard to an American model, meaning; it could be possible to end up with better guitars for better prices! Fender Japan is an example of this in my opinion today. By the way it is not just electric guitars the Japanese rule (LOL) The Pianos like Yamaha are awesome too! Matt Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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