Motorcycles

[AXE®]

And from the shop.

[NeoConMan]

The people who pass the helmet laws are ones who have statistics to back them up' date=' and are the same people who are passing laws to ban texting while driving and being on a non hands-free cell phone while driving.[/quote']

Well, let me read off a laundry list of laws that I think we should pass to legislate the actions of others...

 

 

If statistics supercede liberty, if a government assembly demonstrates more wisdom in their decisions than I am

cabable of where my own health and welfare are concerned, and if they will tax me more every year to ensure

they can enforce their mandates, then why don't we just try the Soviet method? At least I'd pay no taxes.

 

Sorry, this is a fundamental argument solved by a quick re-read of our Founding Documents.

I don't care what the State of New Jersey has to offer above and beyond that.

 

Give me Liberty, and the personal accountability that accompanies it.

[Cruznolfart]

Well' date=' I hope you have your organ donor card filled out so you'll be of some use to society. The people who pass the helmet laws are ones who have statistics to back them up, and are the same people who are passing laws to ban texting while driving and being on a non hands-free cell phone while driving.

 

Helmets save lives, and reduce the burden on the health industry, end of story. Riding without a helmet is like riding in shorts and riding without gloves.

 

And yes, I ride.

 

[img']http://www.tbonesullivan.com/davebike1.jpg[/img]

 

The notion that a rider who chooses to ride uncovered is useless to his society is insulting. As I stated, I've been riding 47 years. Do you think I've just been riding? And the notion that what I decide to do with my remains is any business of yours is ludicrous. You may ride a little but you think and talk like a cager. And that's OK. But I'd never tell you you're of no use to society because you can't think for yourself.

[NeoConMan]

I'm willing to bet a $100 bill that T-Bone's amp is too loud.

I think we should decide on the allowed volume, when and where he can play it, and which guitar is used.

 

And will your motorcycle exceed the speed limit?

I say we govern it to whatever the school zones in your state are - so you don't injure our children.

Is 20 mph too fast to keep you within the confines of the law?

 

Because frankly, I don't trust your judgment.

 

 

T-Bone, you're on the slippery slope, looking up at your feet, picking up speed....

[grampa]

I am no longer allowed on a motorcycle, everyone knows that I would do something stupid and hurt myself. I can't control myself when I get on one. As far as helmets, I agree with Neo except for the fact that if some fool had an accident without one and became some sort of vegetable, the rest of us would probably get saddled with the cost of his care for the rest of his miserable life.

[Cruznolfart]

I am no longer allowed on a motorcycle' date=' everyone knows that I would do something stupid and hurt myself. I can't control myself when I get on one. As far as helmets, I agree with Neo except for the fact that if some fool had an accident without one and became some sort of vegetable, the rest of us would probably get saddled with the cost of his care for the rest of his miserable life.[/quote']

 

This is the helmet-law proponents mantra. "If you get injured without a helmet, it'll cost society." If I were to take just the number of health-care patients who are meth-addicted mothers and get a total for each state on the costs to their respective health-care systems, including the care of their infants and children, it might surprise you. They get new teeth, free food, free health care for the kiddies, free pre and post natal-care, free pediatric care, free or subsidized housing, subsidized utilities, subsidized home-improvement, etc. It goes on and on. The amount (of public funds) spent on the care of injured motorcyclists isn't even on the map. Do we really NEED a law telling adult motorcyclists what they must wear?

[Mark]

This is a pic I found on the INTERNET but I use to race one just like it

in the early 70 in Georgia.

I drank moonshine on the night before a national invitational

like an idiot, got sick and blew my chance to be a ranked amateur,

but what a great bike, moved to Chicago and sold it

 

 

's

[recsec]

My avatar is my current ride. It's a 1998 Triumph Daytona T595. I have been riding since 1970, and have owned Triumphs, BMW's, Harley's, and Honda's. I have toured, roadraced, and done the first 1000 mile day done on a Sport Bike. A 1983 Honda Intereptor. My wife rides a 2003 Suzuki SV650S. I will never ride without a helmet and all the safety gear I can wear. Regardless of the law, Helmets save lives.

[tbonesullivan]

I'm willing to bet a $100 bill that T-Bone's amp is too loud.

I think we should decide on the allowed volume' date=' when and where he can play it, and which guitar is used.

 

And will your motorcycle exceed the speed limit?

I say we govern it to whatever the school zones in your state are - so you don't injure our children.

Is 20 mph too fast to keep you within the confines of the law?

 

Because frankly, I don't trust your judgment.

 

 

T-Bone, you're on the slippery slope, looking up at your feet, picking up speed....[/quote'] driving/riding is a privilege, not a right. End of story. If you want to play the game you play by the rules. A motorcycle is a mode of transportation, not a method of glorifying your own ego. If you want to drive it around on your own property and such, do whatever you want.

 

If you want to go live in total freedom give up everything that society provides you, like drinking water, easy access to petroleum fuels and the like, and go live in a hut in the middle of nowhere subsisting totally off the land, and pump and refine your own oil. Society means giving up some degree of personal freedom for collective good and security. The government is the representative of the people, and is elected by the people democratically. If you have a problem with what they do, go run for office and do something about it.

 

And for the record, I feel the same way about smokers, heavy drinkers, drug abusers, and the like. I love how the heavy smokers complain about taxes and how they don't want the government in "their pot" when they are the same buttheads who are gonna be dipping into the pot big time when they are old and dying of COPD, emphysema or lung cancer and on medicare.

[Shnate McDuanus]

I don't ride--I'm seventeen, and working on my automobile driver's license. I've always thought it would be a great thing to do some day, but at the same time I don't know if I trust myself on a motorcycle, so I'll probably stay away.

 

And guys? Take it easy on tbonesullivan, he's from New Jersey.

[tbonesullivan]

I am no longer allowed on a motorcycle' date=' everyone knows that I would do something stupid and hurt myself. I can't control myself when I get on one. As far as helmets, I agree with Neo except for the fact that if some fool had an accident without one and became some sort of vegetable, the rest of us would probably get saddled with the cost of his care for the rest of his miserable life.[/quote'] You don't have to be a fool to have an accident. Like car accidents most motorcycle accidents are low speed and close to home. Motorcyclists however have the problem of getting thrown or having their bike fall over onto them, and this is why helmets should be mandatory. A helmet is designed to protect the head from the energy of falling about 6 ft. If you are going 25, the total downward distance is still the same, and falling onto a hard unyielding surface at that distance can kill you. Ask Natascha Richardson, who died after falling over and hitting her head on ice while skiing. Also ask Indian Larry, who was doing stunts, and probably would have survived if he'd only put his "freedom" and "pride" away and just long enough to put on some kind of helmet.

[Cruznolfart]

You don't have to be a fool to have an accident. Like car accidents most motorcycle accidents are low speed and close to home. Motorcyclists however have the problem of getting thrown or having their bike fall over onto them' date=' and this is why helmets should be mandatory. A helmet is designed to protect the head from the energy of falling about 6 ft. If you are going 25, the total downward distance is still the same, and falling onto a hard unyielding surface at that distance can kill you. Ask Natascha Richardson, who died after falling over and hitting her head on ice while skiing. Also ask Indian Larry, who was doing stunts, and probably would have survived if he'd only put his "freedom" and "pride" away and just long enough to put on some kind of helmet.

[/quote']

 

Buddy, no one's getting out of here alive. What the hell are you afraid of? You talk like an old woman.

[Shnate McDuanus]

Ask Natascha Richardson' date=' who died after falling over and hitting her head on ice while skiing. Also ask Indian Larry, who was doing stunts, and probably would have survived if he'd only put his "freedom" and "pride" away and just long enough to put on some kind of helmet.

[/quote']

 

Wait...How can we ask them if they're dead?

 

Sorry.

[Cruznolfart]

Wait...How can we ask them if they're dead?

 

Sorry.

 

It was rhetorical. Like most of the nanny-state homilies.

[NeoConMan]

(Heavy sigh.....)

 

Duane, trust me, I'm exercising more restraint than you can imagine...

 

(Never thought I would offer prayers to the Mod Squad!)

 

 

 

I agree with Neo except for the fact that if some fool had an accident without one and

became some sort of vegetable' date=' [b']the rest of us [/b]would probably get saddled with the cost of

his care for the rest of his miserable life.

 

The rest of us?

I already pay $55,000 a year in taxes.

Every year.

That's more than most Americans EARN in a year - and I fxcking give it away...

 

 

 

If you want to go live in total freedom give up everything that society provides you' date='

like drinking water, easy access to petroleum fuels and the like, and go live in a hut in the middle of nowhere

subsisting totally off the land, and pump and refine your own oil. [/quote']

I'm closer to that than you know here at the NeoCon Compound.

 

 

You need to get out of New Jersey and get a little closer to the real world.

 

 

 

Society means giving up some degree of personal freedom for collective good and security.

Really?

Does it now?

I'm stunned that anybody with the I.Q. greater than a house plant would make a stand on such a statement.

The only people I know who are educated and still think that way are among the 20% of Americans who work

for the government in some capacity - it's to protect their job with the government.

 

That's right' date=' 1 of 5 Americans with a job get paid by the other 4 of us.

Well, actually only 10% of the remaining 4 pay for much of it - they pick up more than 80% of the tab.

So 0.4% of Americans with a job pay 80% of the cost to operate a $12,100,000,000,000 government whose

employees outnumber the cash cows by 5 to 2, and I'm one of the 0.4%.

You may believe in what you post here, I bet [i']YOU[/i] don't offer to pay any extra to Uncle Sam on April 15...

 

 

I already pay for everybody else.

I already buy roads, bridges, clean water, infrastructure of every sort.

I already feed, house, medicate, transport, educate and pander to 20 million criminal invaders.

(You may know them by the politically correct name of "undocumented migrants")

 

I already pay for my own insurance on my home, property, vehicles and my health - and millions of others too.

With all the other people I have to carry with my premiums, trust me, I KNOW what it costs.

 

 

 

The government is the representative of the people' date=' and is elected by the people democratically.

Can you say ACORN?

 

:D/

 

 

If you have a problem with what they do' date=' go run for office and do something about it. [/quote']

I've been active in politics since Jimmy Carter was president.

You have no idea who you're speaking with here, I can assure you.

 

Here's a test;

Throw out EVERY person in the country illegally and refuse to treat ANYYBODY with no health insurance.

Do you think my taxes will go down?

 

Yeah, right....

 

 

 

This entire discussion comes to a screeching halt when we remove Nanny State/Socialism from it.

There are Founding Documents outlining how this country would operate.

 

Put your best argument together to support whatever position you might take.

Refer to your handy copy of the Constitution and Bill Of Rights for vetting and confirmation - because I do.

 

Another handy reference if you care;

 

www.neoconman.com

[Cruznolfart]

(Heavy sigh.....)...

This entire discussion comes to a screeching halt when we remove Nanny State/Socialism from it.

There are Founding Documents outlining how this country would operate.

 

Put your best argument together to support whatever position you might take.

Refer to your handy copy of the Constitution and Bill Of Rights for vetting and confirmation - because I do.

 

Another handy reference if you care;

 

www.neoconman.com

 

I have absolutely nothing to add.

[ksdaddy]

My daily driver, a 1974 CB360, bought for fifty bucks a few years back:

 

My 1977 Demm Smily moped (yes I ride it in public):

 

My 1971 CB100 that I will never get around to restoring:

[mcmurray]

That CB360 is dead sexy ksdaddy. I've got a 1978 CB750F2 in my garage undergoing a complete restoration. I'll endeavour to get some pics up soon.

[cwness]

I have been riding for 30 years. Road raced and Motocrossed. This nanny

stated thing is against what this country was founded on. I like Neo's

your amp is to loud statement. That will be coming because if your not

smart enough to wear a helmet you certainly can't protect your hearing.

When will these do gooders stop? Not until we stop them. Anyone who

doesn't wear a helmet or buckle their seat beats in the car are just plain

******'s but that's their right. There should be a law written that if they

don't wear a helmet we don't have to pay for their being a ******. Let them suffer thats

the only way they will learn. Racing teaches you to be safe. I always

wear a helmet and like it. No loud wind noise or rocks hitting you in the head.

 

 

CW

[Cruznolfart]

I have been riding for 30 years. Road raced and Motocrossed. This nanny

stated thing is against what this country was founded on. I like Neo's

your amp is to loud statement. That will be coming because if your not

smart enough to wear a helmet you certainly can't protect your hearing.

When will these do gooders stop? Not until we stop them. Anyone who

doesn't wear a helmet or buckle their seat beats in the car are just plain

******'s but that's their right. There should be a law written that if they

don't wear a helmet we don't have to pay for their being a ******. Let them suffer thats

the only way they will learn. Racing teaches you to be safe. I always

wear a helmet and like it. No loud wind noise or rocks hitting you in the head.

 

 

CW

 

A good friend and one of the most safety conscious riders I've ever known, a fire-fighter and EMT, Dale Vincent (Vinnie) Schwitalla, of St. Cloud, MN was killed by a left-turning van on the last day of a week long road trip. He was 15 minutes from being home. He left a wife and 3 children as well as both his Parents. I rode his 5th annual memorial ride this past June 10th, the day of his departure from this earth.

 

The law that should be written is one that holds negligent drivers completely responsible for their actions. Some of us who would choose to ride uncovered aren't dumbasses at all. We might just have a different perspective. But we are all brothers in the wind.

[Gilliangirl]

Cruzn and the rest of you free-riding ones, I understand what you're saying about the freedom and such but BE CAREFUL! You're right, the cars don't pay attention and that leaves you having to be aware for yourself AND the cars. My ex-fiance used to have a bike and we went all over southern Alberta on it. It was glorious but I worried constantly about the cars and felt so vulnerable. Richard's bike was an old Virago (sp?), really comfortable and smooth ride.

 

Anyway, I work in long term care and I don't want to see you guys in there with this on your charts:

MVA (motor vehicle accident)

cerebral bleed, brain injury

Feeding tube

bowel routine

spoon-fed when able, refer to careplan

mechanical lift

semi-private room

Please ensure side-rails are up on bed at all times

[Cruznolfart]

Cruzn and the rest of you free-riding ones' date=' I understand what you're saying about the freedom and such but BE CAREFUL! You're right, the cars don't pay attention and that leaves you having to be aware for yourself AND the cars. My ex-fiance used to have a bike and we went all over southern Alberta on it. It was glorious but I worried constantly about the cars and felt so vulnerable. Richard's bike was an old Virago (sp?), really comfortable and smooth ride.

 

Anyway, I work in long term care and I don't want to see you guys in there with this on your charts:

MVA (motor vehicle accident)

cerebral bleed, brain injury

Feeding tube

bowel routine

spoon-fed when able, refer to careplan

mechanical lift

semi-private room

Please ensure side-rails are up on bed at all times [/quote']

 

Firstly, thanks for the work you do. Takes a very special sort of person to do it well. And secondly, I hope the impression is not that I disdain the hazards of riding uncovered. My antagonism on the subject is entirely with the laws forcing riders to do what someone else has decided is best for them. Laws that undermine our free choice don't serve the people, they serve the ruling class. That's my beef.

 

And, just for grins and giggles, I've been one of those patients whom you describe above in almost every aspect. That was thanks to Uncle Sam. I had needles as big as kabob skewers shoved into my carotids. I can still hear the tissue tearing. Honest to God, it was the most painful thing I ever had to endure awake. Had to hold still so they wouldn't have to repeat the process. I haven't smelled or tasted anything in over 40 years and there are holes in my memories that are still blank. But I got up. It wasn't my time. So, again, thanks for the work you do. It meant everything to me at one point.

[cwness]

A good friend and one of the most safety conscious riders I've ever known' date=' a fire-fighter and EMT, Dale Vincent (Vinnie) Schwitalla, of St. Cloud, MN was killed by a left-turning van on the last day of a week long road trip. He was 15 minutes from being home. He left a wife and 3 children as well as both his Parents. I rode his 5th annual memorial ride this past June 10th, the day of his departure from this earth.

 

The law that should be written is one that holds negligent drivers completely responsible for their actions. Some of us who would choose to ride uncovered aren't dumbasses at all. We might just have a different perspective. But we are all brothers in the wind.[/quote']

 

I couldn't agree with more about negligent drivers. Lost a good friend the

same way. Lady sitting on the shoulder of the road does a U-turn in front of

him. If he had a helmet on he might of lived. He died from head injuries.

If you go down at even 25 mph and you hit you head your probably not going

to make it. On the over hand with a helmet you stand a chance. Hey it's

your right not to have to wear one but I still stand by my statement. By the

way sorry about your friend I know what ride your talking about. Oh my friend

that died always gave me a hard time for riding with helmet, leathers, and

gloves. He called me Dr. Safety.

 

CW

[ksdaddy]

I rode for decades with no helmet. My excuse was that I could never find a helmet that fit me right. I bought a few over the years, not cheap junk, either! Maybe I didn't give them enough of a chance, but I did try them. About 3 years ago someone on ebay treated themselves to some rudely expensive helmet with Bluetooth, windshield wipers, built in aromatherapy and heat massage, and they put their almost new Arai open face on ebay with a buy it now price of $50. Needless to say I jumped on it. It fits! I can wear it without either feeling like the wind is going to pull my head off or I've lost all peripheral vision. What a wonderful helmet.

 

I can't say I wear it 100% of the time, but it could be 1983 all over again, terrorizing with no helmet on a KZ900.

 

Funny, when I got back into bikes a few years ago, I bought a '77 CB750K, then went to an '81 XS650, then to an '82 GL500 Silver Wing, then to the CB360. No idea why I keep going to smaller bikes, but for the riding I do (commuting and the occasional corner store run) it's perfect. And it takes me back to the 70s....

[Gilliangirl]

I know I'm beatin' a dead horse here but, even tho' you're right about the negligent drivers, the only way you find out about who's negligent is after the accident has already happened. Then you're lying in the hospital bed with the side rails up. Oh yes, and maybe wearing a helmet in case you have a seizure and hit your head on the side rails. And when you're lying in the hospital bed, being right ain't gonna do ya any good.

 

Okay, I'm stepping off my box of adult diapers now