Andy R Posted January 11, 2011 Author Share Posted January 11, 2011 Thanks Andy!! This was a cool thread and i learned some valuable info!! I appreciate you taking the time to document your work and explain it in this thread. Very very cool stuff man!!! and it looks great! No Problem and there is a lot more to come on this guitar project... He he he.... Maybe even some more trivia if I can think of any as I come to it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
daveinspain Posted January 11, 2011 Share Posted January 11, 2011 Two things.... 1. So how long do you think the frets will stay round? 2. You said +1 for my peanut butter and jelly answer but you didn't give me the +1.... :angry: [lol] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andy R Posted January 11, 2011 Author Share Posted January 11, 2011 Two things.... 1. So how long do you think the frets will stay round? 2. You said +1 for my peanut butter and jelly answer but you didn't give me the +1.... :angry: [lol] Oops sorry! Did you give it to yourself? How long the frets stay round is determined by a couple of things first of all the materials the frets are made of. Frets with a lot of Nickel like older (not sure about current) gibson frets are pretty soft which make them easy to level, crown and polish but also make them where down quicker. The second factor is how much you play, how hard you, play etc... and third is string gauge. Heavier gauge strings tend to cut the frets down a bit quicker. Usually the average player shouldn't have to worry about it for a few years. It's best to start watching for the frets to start to develop divots and lightly remove them with some finest steel wool before they become big divots. The better the frets are leveled, polished and crowned to begin with the less wear you will have. That's the problem though is most companies ( even gibson ) will do I decent enough job to level but just do a cursory job at crowning. Almost every Gibson I have ever played has pretty flat frets. This can also be a good thing if your looking at buying a guitar pay close attention to the top of the frets. Look for frets that are really round and then see which ones are flat or partially flat. This will tell you a couple of things. It will tell you where frets might not be seated well and have lifted up from the fretboard, it can tell you that the fretboard may have not been leveled very well. it can also tell you if their is a slight hump or twist in the neck. Or it could just mean they did a shoddy job of leveling and crowning. I see a lot of guitars lately that are fretted by machine press and the radius of the fret does not match the radius of the fretboard so the middle of the frets are sticking up off the fretboard by a 32nd to a 16th of an inch. If you look at these you will see that the centers of the frets are flat while the edges are more round. Anyway learning to read frets is a good skill because it can tell you what kind of problems you might be buying or will be seeing more of in the future. Like I said before you can use this to your advantage to get the price down or turn something that plays mediocre into something that plays great. It can also save you some time and heartache if you see something and don't want to deal with it. Regards, Andy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cabba2203 Posted January 11, 2011 Share Posted January 11, 2011 Damn Andy, you're like a freakin' wizard! Very nice work! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andy R Posted January 11, 2011 Author Share Posted January 11, 2011 Damn Andy, you're like a freakin' wizard! Very nice work! Thanks and I am far from a wizard. I have just worked on a ton of guitars and enjoy teaching and sharing experiences with and learning from others. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andy R Posted January 13, 2011 Author Share Posted January 13, 2011 Well my Tone Pros Bridge came in today so I threw the Standard back together and have to say it plays and sounds damn good! Now..... For my EEEEVVVVVVIIIILL Plan I will start this weekend 0. Record the guitar as it sounds today 1. Remove the fretboard 2. Remove the neck 3. Remove the the alder top ( or whatever it is...) 4. Drill out whatever they put in the weight relief holes and refill with mahogany 5. Use a combination of clear lacquer and lacquer thinner to strip the finish from the guitar ( This stripped lacquer will be reprocessed and resprayed for vintage yellowed finish!) Crazy I know but it will work! 6. cut and shape new curly maple top 7. add "Custom" style 6, 5 and 4 multilayer black and white bindings 8. bind the new top and the back 9. Cut new Ebony Fretboard10. Add Green Abalone Square "Custom" Style inlays 11. Fret with Jackson/Charvel size fretwire 12. Bind the neck with Nibs! 14. Add "custom" style headstock veneer and logo with multi-layer binding 15. Maybe... instead of the Triangle "Custom" headstock emblem I will cut a Rolls Royce RR Logo and add it instead... Truly Custom! 16 Once it is done record using same setting to hear what tonal diffs there are. Last pics before I begin!!! Rough cut flame Maple - $15.00 8" X 50" X1" Thick Binding - $30.00 Mahogany Block $15.00 Let the madness begin!!!! ( Insert Evil Laughter here) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andre S Posted January 13, 2011 Share Posted January 13, 2011 Oh I can't wait to see how it comes out! Based on what you've said and done so far I think it will look great!!!! I think the term wizard suits you too! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DB Cooper Posted January 13, 2011 Share Posted January 13, 2011 There is something I don't understand that has been bothering me, and this seems the appropriate place to ask... If a neck is bound, as in say the SG Standard, how would one go about replacing frets after excessive wear, or even doing the job that you just did? It seems the neck binding would be in the way? This is all new to me, so please educate me! Thanks! ~DB Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SG FAN Posted January 13, 2011 Share Posted January 13, 2011 There is something I don't understand that has been bothering me, and this seems the appropriate place to ask... If a neck is bound, as in say the SG Standard, how would one go about replacing frets after excessive wear, or even doing the job that you just did? It seems the neck binding would be in the way? This is all new to me, so please educate me! There are some luthiers that are skilled enough to replace the frets on a Gibson without losing the "nibs", but usually when you refret a Gibson bound neck you have to lose them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andy R Posted January 13, 2011 Author Share Posted January 13, 2011 There are some luthiers that are skilled enough to replace the frets on a Gibson without losing the "nibs", but usually when you refret a Gibson bound neck you have to lose them. SG is right for the most part and for the "Norm".... Concerning just doing a level, crown and polish they are just a minor inconvenience but not to bad and they stay on. When doing an actual re-fret a bound neck involves a lot more labor to begin with. Trying to remove the old frets without breaking off a nib is a pain... Even if you remove the nib. You have to be a lot more accurate one each fret cut because you have to back cut the fret tang from the bottom of the fret so the fret tang is just a hair smaller than the width of the actual fret slot. You usually have to do a little finish file to remove whatever tang is left on the bottom if the fret with a small file If you don't the the fret tang would cut through or push out the binding. So each fret has to be measured more precisely so the tang is in the fret slot but there is enough fret "top' to hang over the binding. So compared to an unbound neck where all you do is pretty much just cut the fret to an approximate length and then use flat face fret cutters to cut the fret close to the wood and then file the remaining you can see where just dealing with a bound neck is much more work per fret. Now add the work of keeping the nib on... If you manage to get the frets out without breaking any off you pretty much have to precisely cut the tang, the fret over hang and shape each fret individually to match the nib... and then ensure the nib is re-adhered to each fret end. Then do the the level, crown and polish. So you're not talking the average tech ability but more of an actual luthiers ability and skill. Which I'm sure they would do for about $500.00 to $600.00 maybe more or lose the nibs and get it done for probably $350.00 or so.... Maybe a little less... Andy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
retrosurfer1959 Posted January 13, 2011 Share Posted January 13, 2011 Good job Andy very descriptive tutorial. You can often keep the nibs on a Gibson re-fret but it get's very expensive because it is very time consuming and only makes since on a very valuable guitar or a partial re-fret which I have done a couple times then marking, measuring and carefully replacing the individual frets is more doable since your only doing a partial and it's also more important to match so the partial isn't noticeable. If a repair tech wants to either redo the binding or add the tabs back afterwards as some will try to do in order to save costs go elsewhere because it will show up anyway (even if under a blacklight) and you might as well remove the nibs then because it devalues the same. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andy R Posted January 14, 2011 Author Share Posted January 14, 2011 Well Here she is nekid as a Jay Bird! Fretboard comes off tomorrow! I hope. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kimbabig Posted January 14, 2011 Share Posted January 14, 2011 Glad the restoration is going well for you Andy, I'm sure stripping that guitar's finish was a real b!tch. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
recsec Posted January 14, 2011 Share Posted January 14, 2011 This is a GREAT thread Andy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cabba2203 Posted January 14, 2011 Share Posted January 14, 2011 Damn, you didn't waste any time! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
damian Posted January 14, 2011 Share Posted January 14, 2011 Answer!!! I went ahead and gave Shred the +1 as he was closest. The answer is..... So the string has a single point of contact with the fret. When the fret is flat the string has 3 potential points of contacts. Each edge and the flat surface in the middle.... which can cause buzz, reduce sustain because the string is resting on a flat surface and make bending a less fluid feeling. I suppose it could have a minor impact on intonation as it could slightly alter where the string is making contact with the fret. So there you Go!!! Andy I thought that it helped break up light off the shiny frets in asthetically pleasing ways.....hmmmm...( give my +1 to FuzzyFred, he needs 'em). Please post lots of info on removing the top and set in neck...I never knew this could be done..I have also wondered about filling 'weight relieved' holes... And as always, thanks for creating such great threads Andy....... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
freak show Posted January 14, 2011 Share Posted January 14, 2011 This is a fantastic thread! Thanks for posting it! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pippy Posted January 14, 2011 Share Posted January 14, 2011 I know you have other plans but personally I think that would make one Hell of a Lemon-drop Standard.... Great stuff, Andy. P. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andy R Posted January 15, 2011 Author Share Posted January 15, 2011 The Good! FretBoard removed cleanly! My main concerning was gouging or splitting out the mahogany especially the edge where the new fretboard/Binding will show the seam. She is a true Fretless Wonder now! Neck Removed from Body Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andy R Posted January 15, 2011 Author Share Posted January 15, 2011 The Bad! Since my main concern was not screwing up the Mahogany of the neck the original fretboard was sacrificed in the interest of saving time and ensuring a clean removal. All that fret work and a good piece of ebony down the tubes though! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andy R Posted January 15, 2011 Author Share Posted January 15, 2011 The UGLY! I have removed glued in set-necks before for replacement or angle reset but never with the fretboard completely removed. Doing it with the fingerboard attached requires a lot of patience and you only loosen the fretboard just past the edge of the body and then you pull a fret, drill a couple of holes through the fret slot into the cavity of the neck tenon and use a pressure pot and with a tube and long needle to inject steam into the joint until the neck comes loose. It takes forever but comes off clean. I got a bit cocky and impatient when removing the neck on my guitar since I had complete access to the joint. I just used a pot on the stove to produce the steam I needed in conjunction with directly apply water and heat with a heat gun. All was going well, I got the initial bond broken in no time and the neck was starting to rock a bit. I re-steamed a few times and got it to where it was really starting to move pretty good. That's when I decided to give it a good whack to seal the deal and of course it was a bad decision.... Nothing that can't be fixed but a bit disappointed in myself... but Gibson also used Tight Bond wood glue for the neck joint instead of Hide glue which is what they should have used as it comes apart much cleaner... Here it is... Well, So much for "Saving" the top... I am going to glue it back up so I can practice my binding route on it. The important thing is to save the mahogany so I have to do some repair but This although looks bad is repairable and won't be seen... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andy R Posted January 15, 2011 Author Share Posted January 15, 2011 The new! Fretboard, Inlays, fret wire and binding! So plenty of new stuff to start on. To be continued.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SG FAN Posted January 15, 2011 Share Posted January 15, 2011 Jezus Christ you work fast!! Good work so far;) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cabba2203 Posted January 15, 2011 Share Posted January 15, 2011 You continue to impress, Andy! I've learned a good bit from you, thanks! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andy R Posted January 16, 2011 Author Share Posted January 16, 2011 Hey thanks everyone! Part of the reason I wanted to do this instead of just a complete build is the challenges I am facing right now. Wood is forgiving and part of being good at doing stuff like this is not only doing things right but how to cover up mistakes... Reminds me of something a musician friend told me a long time ago. He said if you make a mistake when your playing do it again with authority like you meant it... I always liked that. So here is the fixed body... Like I said this will all be hidden anyway... I also started to set the inlays in the fretboard.... Little rough to start but getting better and I'm halfway finished! First fret was a little wide on the cut but that's what glue and ebony dust is for! 5th fret is about as tight as you can get so I thought I would stop while I was ahead... I will knock the rest out tomorrow.... Gotta build a few tools to get some other stuff done. That white cutting board i'm working on now will turn into a fret bender and a binding clamp when I start making my multi-ply binding. I have to build a router sled so that I can practice my binding route on the old top. Once that is done I will use it to plane the top completely off the guitar. I will also use it to plane my maple top once I get it cut and glued up. I also realized that I will have to modify the neck heel and tenon since I will be doing a full thickness top instead of the thinner "Studio" top. I'm also going to have to enlarge the headstock to "Custom" size. So this should be interesting. Stay Tuned! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Archived
This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.