surfpup Posted January 15, 2011 Share Posted January 15, 2011 So I put a Faber aluminum tailpiece on one of my Gibsons today. I recorded some sound samples for comparison. You can listen for yourself and decide if the lighter, aluminum tailpiece makes a difference or not. In an attempt to be scientific, I recorded the acoustic sound of both tailpieces with a condenser mic directly in front of the guitar. I also recorded some clips directly into Garageband for comparison. I didn't do any amp recordings but I'm looking forward to hearing the new hardware through my amps later. I'll refrain from giving my opinions for now, so that you can listen unbiased if you want to do so.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dub-T-123 Posted January 15, 2011 Share Posted January 15, 2011 Not to be nit-pickey... But did you restring it with fresh strings after you replaced the tailpiece. If you did, wouldn't that kindof make the comparison useless? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kimbabig Posted January 15, 2011 Share Posted January 15, 2011 Not to be nit-pickey... But did you restring it with fresh strings after you replaced the tailpiece. If you did, wouldn't that kindof make the comparison useless? He said he used the same strings in the video, __ I myself heard a slight difference but I don't think the tone was really "better" just changed a little. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dub-T-123 Posted January 15, 2011 Share Posted January 15, 2011 Ahhh ok sorry I'm on my iPhone right now and I'm not in a place that's condusive to videos... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr. Natural Posted January 15, 2011 Share Posted January 15, 2011 Honestly, I couldn't hear much difference at all. Maybe, to my untrained ear, the acoustic recording with the Al tailpiece sounded "better" than with the Zn. Plugged in, the different tailpieces sounded a minute fraction different from each other, but I'm not sure either sounded better; they were just different. And, again, to my untrained ear, if I had not known you were switching tailpieces, and I were listening to these recordings, I probably would not have noticed any difference at all. I imagine that playing at performance volume, any natural tube overdrive (and certainly any pedal-induced overdrive, distortion, or compression) would negate any audible difference between the Al and the Zn tailpieces. (I'm not a recording engineer, and I don't play one on TV, but I DID stay at a Holiday Inn Express last night.) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
surfpup Posted January 15, 2011 Author Share Posted January 15, 2011 Not to be nit-pickey... But did you restring it with fresh strings after you replaced the tailpiece. If you did, wouldn't that kindof make the comparison useless? I did actually use fresh strings. I considered eliminating that variable, but those curly ends are such a pain to get through the tailpiece holes that I got frustrated and clipped them off. However, the "old" strings were nearly new so I think the difference there is negligible. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
surfpup Posted January 16, 2011 Author Share Posted January 16, 2011 ... the acoustic recording with the Al tailpiece sounded "better" than with the Zn. Plugged in, the different tailpieces sounded a minute fraction different from each other, but I'm not sure either sounded better; they were just different. ... (I'm not a recording engineer, and I don't play one on TV, but I DID stay at a Holiday Inn Express last night.) Right. I too figured the differences would be small - I mean, c'mon, we're talking about a tailpiece here! That's why I wanted to see what the recordings captured as far as actual difference. I spent a while this evening playing it through an amp and the difference is not as noticeable as in the "unplugged" sound of the amp, but there is a difference. I have played this guitar a lot unplugged over the last few years, and the tailpiece did make it louder acoustically. It also seems to have changed the resonance somehow - maybe I'd call it more mid-range. It sounds less "plinky" to me now unplugged. I also notice more sustain. When recording the samples, I noticed that the noise gate came in later at the same settings with the aluminum tailpiece, which would seem to indicate more sustain. Through my 18 watt Marshall I can hold a note until the cows come home. Of course it is a Les Paul, so it had decent sustain already. So is the aluminum tailpiece different? Yes. Is it subtle? Yes. Is it better? I'm going with yes at this point. Is it $80 better? Perhaps not if high gain is your bag. That does seem to compensate/cover the differences a bit. However, many people say you should listen to an instrument acoustically before you play it electrically. Why do they say this? Is an instrument that rings and sustains more acoustically a better instrument electrically? If so I have a better instrument now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tazzboy Posted January 16, 2011 Share Posted January 16, 2011 in my opinion yes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cabba2203 Posted January 16, 2011 Share Posted January 16, 2011 The Aluminum tail sings more. Subtle, but nice. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Riffster Posted January 16, 2011 Share Posted January 16, 2011 Definitley a small difference but perceivable and for the better, just a bit more airy and defined. Nice playing too, you must practice with a metronome... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
surfpup Posted January 16, 2011 Author Share Posted January 16, 2011 Nice playing too, you must practice with a metronome... Bwahahahahaha! Can't stand those d*mn things - never could. It probably shows. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
damian Posted January 16, 2011 Share Posted January 16, 2011 Great thread Surfpup......I did not expect to hear any difference, and / or I expected to hear a 'placebo' effect.....Yet, I did hear a clear difference, very clear, both acoustically and plugged in.. I thought that all Gibson tails were aluminum...........When you say Zinc, do you mean Zinc, or a zinc alloy ?? And, if you or anyone else knows, does the quality of aluminum matter ?? Would stainless steel work ? Or titanium ? Or a titanium/aluminum alloy work well or better ??? And I do think that an electric that sounds better acoustically will sound better plugged in.....in general.....Lots of variables when one considers the type of wood, it's quality, age, etc etc.......... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
surfpup Posted January 16, 2011 Author Share Posted January 16, 2011 Great thread Surfpup......I did not expect to hear any difference, and / or I expected to hear a 'placebo' effect.....Yet, I did hear a clear difference, very clear, both acoustically and plugged in.. I thought that all Gibson tails were aluminum...........When you say Zinc, do you mean Zinc, or a zinc alloy ?? And, if you or anyone else knows, does the quality of aluminum matter ?? Would stainless steel work ? Or titanium ? Or a titanium/aluminum alloy work well or better ??? And I do think that an electric that sounds better acoustically will sound better plugged in.....in general.....Lots of variables when one considers the type of wood, it's quality, age, etc etc.......... Yes, Gibson uses a zinc alloy for their bridges and tailpieces. Some feel this metal does not vibrate well and there is a tonal improvement in using lighter weight aluminum tailpieces and solid steel bridges. That's my next step - a bridge. The quest continues. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Searcy Posted January 16, 2011 Share Posted January 16, 2011 Any one else here old enough to remember when everyone was swapping out the stock bridges for all brass becuase it made the guitar sustain longer? I'm betting the aluminum fad will fizzel out after a while too. I am glad to see some folks trying to do some good head to head work on the subject. Nice Job SurfPup. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
badbluesplayer Posted January 16, 2011 Share Posted January 16, 2011 I guess the Aluminum one sounds a little better - its tough to tell. Do you think the fact that the thing locks down to the top of the guitar has any effect? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
surfpup Posted January 16, 2011 Author Share Posted January 16, 2011 I guess the Aluminum one sounds a little better - its tough to tell. Do you think the fact that the thing locks down to the top of the guitar has any effect? Certainly possible. I always top wrap though with the stock bridge cranked all the way down. Still the actual lock down could be a factor as much as the material. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BigKahune Posted January 16, 2011 Share Posted January 16, 2011 . I can hear a bit of a difference. But I wouldn't drop $80 on that bit of a difference. Thanks Surfpup - interesting thread as I haven't check the Al option out and the effort on sound clips is appreciated too. B) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Toner Posted February 3, 2011 Share Posted February 3, 2011 Listening with pro headphones the difference is there for sure. I just bought a Faber TP-'59 and have yet to replace my TP. I'm looking forward to it now. You would think that Gibson would stop using zinc TP's, but then again money is more important than tone, isn't it??? Though I expected more from a German product, my TP had pitting under the nickel plating, right on top, plain as the nose on my face. Very small pits though, barely noticeable. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
surfpup Posted February 3, 2011 Author Share Posted February 3, 2011 You would think that Gibson would stop using zinc TP's, but then again money is more important than tone, isn't it??? ... Right. They could step up to better pots and caps too... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
surfpup Posted February 3, 2011 Author Share Posted February 3, 2011 Update... I just ordered a new bridge also (Tone Pros). I have new Callaham steel bridge studs ready to be installed. Once those are in, I'll try to update the recordings to compare. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Toner Posted February 3, 2011 Share Posted February 3, 2011 Right. They could step up to better pots and caps too... Oh, caps... :) I took out the tiny .02 ceramic ones and put in some '50-'60's wax/paper .047uf and the tone is amazing. I never thought caps could make more tone, but these sure did. It's like a new guitar. Cant wait to hear what the TP will do. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vourot Posted February 3, 2011 Share Posted February 3, 2011 Thanks for the good post Surfpup. You can defintly hear a difference. Good tone btw, big Who fan here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
saturn Posted February 4, 2011 Share Posted February 4, 2011 I couldn't hear much difference. Of course, my ears might have lost some sensitivity from working around jet planes and playing in rock bands all those years I bet STEVE approves of your choice music to play in the first clip Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
milod Posted February 4, 2011 Share Posted February 4, 2011 Saturn... And firearms and howitzers and.... <grin> I have no idea how much ear sensitivity I might be missing. I thought I could hear a little more mids with the aluminum but again... is the metal or connection to the guitar or... As was said, interesting thread. Actually the first thought through my mind was to scope it, but... I dunno if those critters exist much nowadays. m Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
saturn Posted February 4, 2011 Share Posted February 4, 2011 naw..I tend to stay away from firearms and artillery But, I went back and listened with the earbuds. The first time I was just listening through the computer speakers and the TV was on blah blah blah..anyway, it might be my imagination but it seemed like I could hear your (Surfpups) fingers sliding along the neck more on the AL tailpiece samples Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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