devellis Posted October 7, 2011 Share Posted October 7, 2011 Short term, any guitar bought new loses value. Long term, the opposite tends to be true if you wait long enough and keep the guitar in good enough condition. Stella guitars that cost less than $50 in the mid sixties are now seen to sell for about three times that. In the '70s and even '80s, those guitars were considered firewood. Ren's guitars do have a certain magic. But remember, the last "Gibson magic touch" was arguably the Loar era, and it took 40 years or more for those to begin their ascent in value. These days, of course, a Loar mandolin is worth a king's ransom. So, I guess the whole discussion really needs to be framed in terms of the time frame you're considering. Short term, my SJ-200 will lose value. I may not live long enough to see its inflation-adjusted value exceed what I paid for it but I didn't buy it as an investment. I'll pay off the mortgage and car loans the old fashioned way. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DanvillRob Posted October 7, 2011 Share Posted October 7, 2011 I think you've confused the Lacey Act with CITES. Lacey is completely irrelevant to selling abroad or carrying abroad. -- Bob R I'm sure you're right....You keep up on these things much better than I. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
grampa Posted October 8, 2011 Share Posted October 8, 2011 I bought mine to play in 1982 for one hundred and fifty dollars. It was nowhere near original shape and still isn't. For me its value has risen into the priceless range. I've never bought a guitar with the idea of making money from reselling it. I've never sold one for more than I bought it and I've given away more than I've sold. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DanvillRob Posted October 8, 2011 Share Posted October 8, 2011 I bought mine to play in 1982 for one hundred and fifty dollars. It was nowhere near original shape and still isn't. For me its value has risen into the priceless range. I've never bought a guitar with the idea of making money from reselling it. I've never sold one for more than I bought it and I've given away more than I've sold. Ya know, I tried to recall what I paid for my Jubilee back in about 1975-1976. It was used, and not in great shape, (it's a 1969, so it was a few years old at the time). I kinda think I paid $150, no case. Never considered what I could sell it for... only cared that I could play it. I'm at a dog show in Roseville right now, and my Jubilee is with me in the Motor Home. Still a fantastic guitar, regardless of it's monitary value, it's priceless to me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
E-minor7 Posted October 8, 2011 Share Posted October 8, 2011 I sometimes think a bit about this, but isn't it like predicting the quality of apples next year. Only the tree knows. I'm sure the Ferguson era will be praised in the future and predict my vintage will stay up there somewhere – apart from that, I have to give EA a green. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BluesKing777 Posted October 8, 2011 Share Posted October 8, 2011 I've taken a bath on eBay purchases - nobody's fault but mine (Blind Willie Johnson tune). With the automatic bidding I lost out on 3 or 4 guitars as bidding went absolutely sky high when the due time came up. So when I saw one I really, really wanted, well, of course I couldn't stand the pressure and clicked on the dreaded 'Buy It Now' button. No good at Poker... Very happy with my guitars, but the values, well??? Still way cheaper than restoring old cars or such, though. BluesKing777. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DanvillRob Posted October 8, 2011 Share Posted October 8, 2011 I've taken a bath on eBay purchases - nobody's fault but mine (Blind Willie Johnson tune). With the automatic bidding I lost out on 3 or 4 guitars as bidding went absolutely sky high when the due time came up. So when I saw one I really, really wanted, well, of course I couldn't stand the pressure and clicked on the dreaded 'Buy It Now' button. No good at Poker... Very happy with my guitars, but the values, well??? Still way cheaper than restoring old cars or such, though. BluesKing777. Let me give you my perspective..... I'm not at all sure I got the best deal on my DIF or my H'Bird...but I don't care..... the few thousands of dollars I spent meant little to me. The dollars I spent have and will continue to pass through my hands all my life.... but the guitars are special and even if I lost them tomorrow I'll still have the memories of the time I spent with them. Who remembers dollars? Who doesn't remember guitars? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
6stringTom Posted October 8, 2011 Share Posted October 8, 2011 I think we all want to know that our favorite guitars will hold their value really well over time .. for obvious reasons. Actually, no. That statement is undoubtedly true of some, perhaps even most, but not all. While it may be that nearly all of us enjoy trying different guitars when the opportunities arise, and being on the forum undoubtedly shows that we enjoy reading about them, those of us who say we don't much care about them holding their value are telling the truth. At least I am. I've played for 50 years and acquired 10 guitars in that time period. I sold one--an HD 28V because my arthritic shoulder started hurting when I played it. It's resale value was what it was. I sold it a bit low to avoid the hassle of wrangling. Had its value been lower I would have sold it for even less. For sentimental reasons, I was happy to sell it to someone who was really excited to get it. However, I earned and spent the money to buy it over ten years ago and never intended to get that money back. I chose each of my guitars for a unique sound--6 string, 12 string, nylon, steel, resonator, etc. Maybe I didn't get the best in each type, but I got quality pro level instruments and the rest is up to me as a player. Although I have bought a number of guitars, I've never gotten into the guitar CHANGING mode. It just isn't of interest to me. We all make choices about what things we care about and what things we don't. I care a lot about the value of my house when I sell it. I care a lot about the investments I've made for retirement. Since I don't plan to sell my guitars and haven't made that part of my financial planning, I'll go with the flow if someday I am forced to sell them. I do fear the possible time that I can't play them, but I don't worry at all about their value, which to me is solely in the pleasure they provide. Other people collect guitars, trade them, sell and resell them, and some do all of these things. There are many different and legitimate ways to value our Gibson guitars. Some involve their monetary value, some don't. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MissouriPicker Posted October 8, 2011 Share Posted October 8, 2011 Excellent, 6String. I feel the same way. It doesn't matter to me. The value I place on my guitars is the enjoyment I get from them. Some are priceless, for sentimental reasons, while others might be sold and become treasures for someone else. I can understand collectors and Ebay sellers having a necessarily different view. Depends on what you do with your guitars. I guess in a way I'm a collector. I don't collect them to sell them and make money. I collect them for the enjoyment of owning and playing them. When I do sell them, I'm usually losing money, but that how it goes....Likewise, others simply like seeiing the financial value of their guitars increase along with the enjoyment they get from them.....It's all good. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RASHARU Posted October 8, 2011 Author Share Posted October 8, 2011 Let me give you my perspective..... I'm not at all sure I got the best deal on my DIF or my H'Bird...but I don't care..... the few thousands of dollars I spent meant little to me. The dollars I spent have and will continue to pass through my hands all my life.... but the guitars are special and even if I lost them tomorrow I'll still have the memories of the time I spent with them. Who remembers dollars? Who doesn't remember guitars? D-Rob! That's a very interesting perspective. Thank you for that .. seriously. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JuanCarlosVejar Posted October 8, 2011 Share Posted October 8, 2011 I can only speak for myself---I have never bought a guitar and wondered what it will be worth as it ages. I buy a guitar because I want it. For me, I think very few people can rely on a guitar being a financial investment. I use mine for an emotional investment. I don't expect any more than that and likely it's enough for me. Mr.Garret I agree with you . I think guitars should be seen as an emotional investment and not a monetary investment . I guess even the standard models we buy now will be vintage someday . so just keep playing them all !!! . I guess Ren Ferguson's guitars will be worth alot in the future Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
struma6 Posted October 8, 2011 Share Posted October 8, 2011 I think you've confused the Lacey Act with CITES. Lacey is completely irrelevant to selling abroad or carrying abroad. -- Bob R Selling a broad is pimping and IS illegal. Don't know why carrying one would be a problem though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Honky Dog Posted October 8, 2011 Share Posted October 8, 2011 To be honest with respect to my economics and music, I really couldn't care less. I bought my Gibson guitars to play, write songs, and perform, not as an investment or to sell later to buy another guitar. They have no economic value for me, only musical value, and in that regard they are a gold standard. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DanvillRob Posted October 8, 2011 Share Posted October 8, 2011 Selling a broad is pimping and IS illegal. Don't know why carrying one would be a problem though. The Mann Act? (Which seems contradictory, on it's face!) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DanvillRob Posted October 8, 2011 Share Posted October 8, 2011 For those of us who travel internationally with guitars, here's an article that'll scare the hell out of you! Fretboard Article on CITES http://www.fretboardjournal.com/features/magazine/guitar-lover%E2%80%99s-guide-cites-conservation-treaty Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BigKahune Posted October 8, 2011 Share Posted October 8, 2011 To be honest with respect to my economics and music, I really couldn't care less. I bought my Gibson guitars to play, write songs, and perform, not as an investment or to sell later to buy another guitar. They have no economic value for me, only musical value, and in that regard they are a gold standard. +1 As far as economic value goes, my wife, bless her heart, sees it a bit differently. . B) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zombywoof Posted October 8, 2011 Share Posted October 8, 2011 I suppose Ren's retirement might cause a spike in Japan, especially on guitars with his signature on them somewhere, but most U.S. buyers have no idea who he is. Value attached to name is, of course, not uncommon. That has happened with Gibson mandolins - the Loar-era A models are more highly valued than earlier or later instruments. The early Fender Custom Shop guitars with John Black's signature in the neck pocket or the distinctive stamped CS logo indicating that Vince Cunetto finished the instrument are very highly sought after. I guess that whether a signed Ren guitar becomes a "Holy Grail" guitar in the future would depend on the perception of whether the guitars that come after him are the same, better or worse quality. The funny thing about the market these days is that if you had decided to "invest" in guitars say ten years back you would have seen a better return on el cheapos than a something like a banner Gibson. The value of guitars like pre-War Kalamazoo flat tops, Oscar Schmidt-made Stellas, Kay Krafts, and even the later Harmony Sovereigns has in many cases more than tripled. Some, like say a 1930 Stella 12 string will fetch more bucks than a 1940s Gibson J-45. Strange days have found us. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
onewilyfool Posted October 8, 2011 Share Posted October 8, 2011 I watch Craig's list locally....and EVERY time Gibson announces price increases....the prices on the used Gibson's go up the same. If a J-45 has gone up in price $400 in two years.....so has your used J-45.....so don't sweat the small stuff.......Like Rar says, if the vintage guitar market bubble burst.....you might be affected....but for new guitars, you will at least hold your own..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RASHARU Posted October 8, 2011 Author Share Posted October 8, 2011 So allow me to re-phrase my original post for clarification ... Do you feel that all the negative Gibson media of late may somehow adversely affect the cash value of your guitar (either now or in the near future)? ... Or is the recent struggling economy just making funds really tight for everyone, resulting in lengthy & difficult guitar sales overall? .. (resulting in perceived plummeting values?) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jerry K Posted October 8, 2011 Share Posted October 8, 2011 So allow me to re-phrase my original post for clarification ... Do you feel that all the negative Gibson media of late may somehow adversely affect the cash value of your guitar (either now or in the near future)? ... Or is the recent struggling economy just making funds really tight for everyone, resulting in lengthy & difficult guitar sales overall? .. (resulting in perceived plummeting values?) 1. I don't care about the cash value of my guitars. I like playing them. 2. The current downturn has pushed the price of used guitars way down. I regard that as a tremendous opportunity for me to buy guitars. 3. The recent publicity is a flash in the pan, signifying nothing. I will buy more Gibson acoustics. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rar Posted October 9, 2011 Share Posted October 9, 2011 1. I don't care about the cash value of my guitars. I like playing them. 2. The current downturn has pushed the price of used guitars way down. I regard that as a tremendous opportunity for me to buy guitars. 3. The recent publicity is a flash in the pan, signifying nothing. I will buy more Gibson acoustics. Sounds right to me. -- Bob R Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zombywoof Posted October 9, 2011 Share Posted October 9, 2011 In terms of public relations, the public memory is rather short so I am guessing all of the present hoopla will not effect value in the long run. Like others have said, I do not give a flip what my geetars are worth. I ain't planning on selling them - just playing 'em. And in those instances when I do shuffle the deck a bit I do it by trading - any drop in value of my instruments is offset by a drop in value of what I am aiming at getting. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
onewilyfool Posted October 9, 2011 Share Posted October 9, 2011 Most people who own Gibsons probably haven't even heard of the latest little "dust-up"....this will be no more than a blip on the screen of Gibson's illustrious history.....fear not Gibsonites!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
roxymusic Posted October 9, 2011 Share Posted October 9, 2011 I don't really think much about what my guitars are worth money wise as you loose money on them as soon as you leave the guitar store. I did almost get what i paid for my last two guitars when sold privately. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RASHARU Posted October 11, 2011 Author Share Posted October 11, 2011 Lots of respectable viewpoints here. I guess some players just have a little more collector in their blood than others. It's all good! Personally, I wouldn't own a guitar that's any less than "special" in some monetary way or another. But that's just me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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