Silenced Fred Posted October 21, 2011 Share Posted October 21, 2011 From a manager/producer. I declined it, but in your guys' opinion, when should someone look at getting a manager/producer? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
damian Posted October 21, 2011 Share Posted October 21, 2011 When your GROSS income a year is going to exceed $50,00.00 a year.....Then it's something to consider....... Given what one can study and learn about the business on one's own these days, so-called "managers" are usually pointless and are a complete waste of time and money.......Now, having an "entertainment" attorney around to "consult" with IS valuable...... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Silenced Fred Posted October 21, 2011 Author Share Posted October 21, 2011 When your GROSS income a year is going to exceed $50,00.00 a year.....Then it's something to consider....... Given what one can study and learn about the business on one's own these days, so-called "managers" are usually pointless and are a complete waste of time and money.......Now, having an "entertainment" attorney around to "consult" with IS valuable...... that's what I was thinking, kind of along those lines. More like "when it gets out of hand" I mean, I guess its kind of flattering someone listened to my stuff and manages some local bands and wanted me, but meh. I'm still working on starting it all up from a grassroots sort of effort I guess. My big goal for 2012 is to get on local radio or something Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
damian Posted October 22, 2011 Share Posted October 22, 2011 That is a realistic goal......There are certain 'audio standards' required by radio stations....This has nothing to do with recording quality... Most recordings can be made to reach these standards.....DIY is basically what being an INDIE artist means....It's a good thing.......... Copyright your material........... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Californiaman Posted October 22, 2011 Share Posted October 22, 2011 When your GROSS income a year is going to exceed $50,00.00 a year.....Then it's something to consider....... Given what one can study and learn about the business on one's own these days, so-called "managers" are usually pointless and are a complete waste of time and money.......Now, having an "entertainment" attorney around to "consult" with IS valuable...... I totally get the the "entertainment" attorney. It's so important. Plenty of bands have been screwed over because of managers. An attorney though, priceless. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big Bill Posted October 22, 2011 Share Posted October 22, 2011 I pushed Brian Epstein away for the same reasons. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeff-7 Posted October 22, 2011 Share Posted October 22, 2011 I just have a great distrust of managers and agents, my brother gets eaten alive by his agent's fees and I really don't think he has his best interests at heart. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stein Posted October 22, 2011 Share Posted October 22, 2011 I'm curious: What exactly was this manager/producer offering? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Silenced Fred Posted October 22, 2011 Author Share Posted October 22, 2011 I'm curious: What exactly was this manager/producer offering? booking shows, working to get me into recording studios for cheaper rates than i could get, work with other musicians he works with, etc. I didn't talk about what his rates would be, but I wasn't going to anyways Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
L5Larry Posted October 22, 2011 Share Posted October 22, 2011 Take it! Where do I sign. I could tell you my story from the late 70's, but nobody around here seems to give a **** about "real world" music business stories and advise! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stein Posted October 22, 2011 Share Posted October 22, 2011 From a manager/producer. I declined it, but in your guys' opinion, when should someone look at getting a manager/producer? Take it! Where do I sign. I could tell you my story from the late 70's, but nobody around here seems to give a **** about "real world" music business stories and advise! You're on, sir! I believe that is what Frez is here for, and I for one (although I won't be doing it for awhile) am interested. Wisdom, like love and cash, is most valuable shared. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
retrosurfer1959 Posted October 22, 2011 Share Posted October 22, 2011 Depends on what your after and the deal they offered. I have an agent/manager for my art work and they make a % of what I make. That's how they get paid but it it also got me into some very exclusive studio's and galleries all over the country where my art sell,s for much more than I could ever sell it for on my own and to a much larger market. The money they make from me isn't an issue at all for me trust me when they are working on a percentage, you will be more successful and if your not? Well don't worry about it they'll drop you almost instantly if they can't help you make money. As for an attorney you bet, if you don't use attorneys in today's complex world somebody will take advantage of you for sure. People seem to be against managers and agents in so many of the arts right now, even in publishing and music where it used to really be the norm. While it is possible to promote yourself and even publish yourself in today's world theres not usually much money in it either. Way too often just breaking even is usually considered a huge success. While it's true you need to be careful and make sure it's very clear what the agreement is as well as what is expected and what it costs you the bottom line is they make money when you make money. All that said when others are involved they do control what you do to a point sometimes a very LARGE point they quickly turn it from a hobby into a business in many ways. I may feel like playing guitar or working on something unique and different but not really commercial but when a show is coming up it's there job to keep me on task and producing even when I don't feel like it. So make sure your ready to work when you start making deals for management etc. It's a business for them and it has to be a business for you also, so if it's still just a hobby your thinking about pursuing then stay on your own, when you get serious then look for help. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
damian Posted October 22, 2011 Share Posted October 22, 2011 In today's "real world", for musicians like Mr. Fuzz, and myself, much of the work can and should be done DIY..... Today's "real world" is INDIE, not hiring folks who claim to be managers who don't have a clue about the business.......... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
This_Dying_Soul Posted October 22, 2011 Share Posted October 22, 2011 the point where you can't juggle the music and handling the business side of things is when you need a manager. if you are not in a position where taking care of the business causes the music to suffer or focusing on the music means you don't have time to take care of the business side dont bother with a manager. If you ever decide you need a manager, it might be best at first to get someone you know personally. A friend or family member that has some connections and willing to do it for little or no pay until things start rolling would be best at first. Leave the professional manager/agent guys until it comes to a point where you can't handle the business yourself and it becomes something that is beyond the ability of a friend or relative to handle for you. Who knows...you may never feel the need to go outside your personal circles to get management. You might find someone who learns about the business at a fast enough to be able to manage your band through it's whole career no matter how big it gets. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FirstMeasure Posted October 22, 2011 Share Posted October 22, 2011 You should have taken him up on it. We get approached by "Manager/Producer/Talent Agents" a couple times a year, usually they leave out the word "Trying" as in, "I'm Trying to be a manager/Producer/talent agent". But one was actually a pretty active talent agent. We're going to send him our packet once we get tight with our new drummer and see what happens (third drummers a charm, they say). The only way you'll cut the BS and find the real guys is to go for it. Call their bluff, so to speak. Do what Vonnegut called a Vin-Dit (or dancing lesson from God) and go for it. The worst that can happen is nothing the best that can happen is big venues. Either way it's experience. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LarryUK Posted October 22, 2011 Share Posted October 22, 2011 When they take 25% of the gross. It's time to manage yourself. I'd say the shrewdest in the business is Prince. He controls everything himself. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Silenced Fred Posted October 22, 2011 Author Share Posted October 22, 2011 L5, please tell me your experience! If you don't want to post it online for obvious reasons, send me a pM or I can give you my email Retro, I'm only going to be in Colorado for another month and a half then I'm going back to Illinois, just isn't working out for me here. Once I get back, I found a good rate at a studio to get some better sounding demos and then start peddling those around an see if I can talk to someone out there. Like Damian said, quite a bit can be done DIY, but in no way am I adverse to more opportunities. The "indie cred" is a crock of bullshit Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChanMan Posted October 22, 2011 Share Posted October 22, 2011 I'm with L5, FM and those saying take him up on his offer. IF he is legit, call him back and tell him you've thought about it and reconsidered and would like to discuss his offer. Just make sure he makes no money if you make no money... And wow, what a compliment to your professionalism and talent! Way to go Fred! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
duane v Posted October 22, 2011 Share Posted October 22, 2011 We weren't assigned management until we were signed.... We had an Attorney on retainer prior, but that was it.... We pretty much managed ourselves, which pretty much explained why we argued often .... But what band that has four teenagers doesn't argue Fred You should know in your heart of hearts if you are ready for management or legal representation: 1. Being a solo artist you should have over 200 complete songs cataloged 2. Selling out small venues 3. Your electronic medium where you profile your music has a large buzz / traffic Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChanMan Posted October 22, 2011 Share Posted October 22, 2011 /shrug Maybe it's just Nashville... but I've seen bands with LOADS of talent and connections go nowhere trying to manage themselves, while others with half the talent got MUCH better bookings because they had a decent manager. By decent, I mean someone who spent their time doing the legwork necessary to get those bookings. It was hard to get a good gig while working an 8 to 5 and going to reheasals at night... far easier when someone could work the phones and present demo tapes during the day. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
djroge1 Posted October 22, 2011 Share Posted October 22, 2011 I pushed Brian Epstein away for the same reasons. I did the same thing to Peter Grant Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
duane v Posted October 22, 2011 Share Posted October 22, 2011 From a manager/producer. I declined it, but in your guys' opinion, when should someone look at getting a manager/producer? To be candid Fred... IMO you're not serious enough, it appears you are more serious about defending your opinions on guitar forums. Example: 1. You have almost 10,000 post just on this forum alone, which by itself has taken away precious hours where you could had been sharpening up your vocal and writing skills..... Bottom line if making it in the music business is something you are really after, your presence on forums should be pretty much non-existent. 2. I'm not sure of your age, but I have yet to listen to a semi-pro recording of any of your music 3. I have yet to see any live performance at a club to see how you and your music is received by strangers Bottom line: If you want to generate a buzz about your musical efforts amongst credible contacts within the music industry, you need to be tons more serious about what you are currently doing..... Just remember there are musicians with more talent than you that work waaaaaayyyyy harder than you..... So you need to start working your *** off now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
djroge1 Posted October 22, 2011 Share Posted October 22, 2011 To be candid Fred... IMO you're not serious enough, it appears you are more serious about defending your opinions on guitar forums. Example: 1. You have almost 10,000 post just on this forum alone, which by itself has taken away precious hours where you could had been sharpening up your vocal and writing skills..... Bottom line if making it in the music business is something you are really after, your presence on forums should be pretty much non-existent. 2. I'm not sure of your age, but I have yet to listen to a semi-pro recording of any of your music 3. I have yet to see any live performance at a club to see how you and your music is received by strangers Bottom line: If you want to generate a buzz about your musical efforts amongst credible contacts within the music industry, you need to be tons more serious about what you are currently doing..... Just remember there are musicians with more talent than you that work waaaaaayyyyy harder than you..... So you need to start working your *** off now. That's some pretty straight up advice and much truth said here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Silenced Fred Posted October 22, 2011 Author Share Posted October 22, 2011 To be candid Fred... IMO you're not serious enough, it appears you are more serious about defending your opinions on guitar forums. Example: 1. You have almost 10,000 post just on this forum alone, which by itself has taken away precious hours where you could had been sharpening up your vocal and writing skills..... Bottom line if making it in the music business is something you are really after, your presence on forums should be pretty much non-existent. 2. I'm not sure of your age, but I have yet to listen to a semi-pro recording of any of your music 3. I have yet to see any live performance at a club to see how you and your music is received by strangers Bottom line: If you want to generate a buzz about your musical efforts amongst credible contacts within the music industry, you need to be tons more serious about what you are currently doing..... Just remember there are musicians with more talent than you that work waaaaaayyyyy harder than you..... So you need to start working your *** off now. Word. I hear you loud and clear Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big Bill Posted October 22, 2011 Share Posted October 22, 2011 To be candid Fred... IMO you're not serious enough, it appears you are more serious about defending your opinions on guitar forums. Example: 1. You have almost 10,000 post just on this forum alone, which by itself has taken away precious hours where you could had been sharpening up your vocal and writing skills..... Bottom line if making it in the music business is something you are really after, your presence on forums should be pretty much non-existent. 2. I'm not sure of your age, but I have yet to listen to a semi-pro recording of any of your music 3. I have yet to see any live performance at a club to see how you and your music is received by strangers Bottom line: If you want to generate a buzz about your musical efforts amongst credible contacts within the music industry, you need to be tons more serious about what you are currently doing..... Just remember there are musicians with more talent than you that work waaaaaayyyyy harder than you..... So you need to start working your *** off now. That is some very good advice Duane. I have a childhood buddy who has been playing drums since he was 10 years old. I have to admit he is one of the best drummers I had the pleasure of playing with. His dream was, and still is to "make it big", however he is pushing 50 and has not gotten any farther in in dream since the mid 70s. He never was able to make any commitments with other musicians and mostly played in his parents basement. It's 2011 and he's still playing in that basement. Obviously he has never had a game plan to reach his goal, other than some big time manager or producer to stumble upon his parents basement and offer him a contract. I remember Duane stating that it's best to start forming a solid set of realistic goals at an early age. The older you get the harder it may be. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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