bassetman Posted July 21, 2016 Share Posted July 21, 2016 Am I missing something here about open back tuners? Personally I dislike them and immediately remove them from my guitars. Sealed tuners just seam better protected to me and the open gears look tacky. So why do so many otherwise fine guitars have these? If anyone needs some I have the ones off my J45 and about four other sets on the shelf in boxes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
62burst Posted July 21, 2016 Share Posted July 21, 2016 That's hilarious. "One man's trash. . . ", etc. Yes, people have gone back n' forth on this ad nauseam. The big Rotomatics were actually once seen as an upgrade, as you mention, sealed being less prone to problems. The open gear tuners have a more simple elegance, and then there is the whole weight on the headstock issue. Just hefting the bag holding the heavy Roto's and their attendant hardware is enough to convince most that lighter would probably be better, not just for balance reasons, either. Save those open geared tuners- you just might come 'round full circle. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buc McMaster Posted July 21, 2016 Share Posted July 21, 2016 If you're planning on dragging the headstock of your guitar down a dusty country road, sure........sealed machine heads might be a good idea and have some advantage over open backs for that application. Guitars are not generally employed in environments that require sealed tuners to function. The advantage of open backs to me is weight. The extra metal involved, be they those gawd awful Rotomatics or the square-back "keystone" style, makes a difference at the headstock. Most guitars feel better balanced with a lightweight machine set. The aesthetics is another matter. I do like the exposed, mechanical look of open back Gotohs, Klusons or Waverlys, but that is purely subjective. Some like vanilla, some like chocolate. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bassetman Posted July 21, 2016 Author Share Posted July 21, 2016 That's why I still have all of them....as a former mechanic oper gears just rub the wrong way. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bassetman Posted July 21, 2016 Author Share Posted July 21, 2016 Eastern Washington is the dust and grit Capitol of the universe. ;) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vacamartin Posted July 21, 2016 Share Posted July 21, 2016 Am I missing something here about open back tuners? Personally I dislike them and immediately remove them from my guitars. Sealed tuners just seam better protected to me and the open gears look tacky. So why do so many otherwise fine guitars have these? If anyone needs some I have the ones off my J45 and about four other sets on the shelf in boxes. I'll trade you my Rotomatics off my L-130 for some of those? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bassetman Posted July 21, 2016 Author Share Posted July 21, 2016 I'll trade you my Rotomatics off my L-130 for some of those? Sent you a pm. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OldCowboy Posted July 21, 2016 Share Posted July 21, 2016 Have been in both arenas - having changed to Rotos and changed to open gears from Rotos and.... you get the idea. Either works fine, IMHO, providing they're not malfunctioning, and either variety will eventually wear out. If you're restoring something vintage or own a repro of something vintage, the original look is good. If you aren't or don't, I see it pretty much as a matter of aesthetics, and that's as personal as a toothbrush. As far as the extra heft of the Grovers and such, I can't notice much difference there or in matters like tone and sustain which used to be hotly debated among players and luthiers and bystanders. I cuss about lugging extra-heavy guitar cases from time to time, but still ride horses with heavy leather saddles (nylon is getting to be the saddle of choice for the aged) and can throw 'em around/carry 'em just like always. When a few ounces of guitar tuner becomes an issue, I'll likely adapt cheerfully. Cheap tuners irritate me for some reason, but that's just a personal quirk, I suppose. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fp Posted July 21, 2016 Share Posted July 21, 2016 Am I missing something here about open back tuners? Personally I dislike them and immediately remove them from my guitars. Sealed tuners just seam better protected to me and the open gears look tacky. So why do so many otherwise fine guitars have these? If anyone needs some I have the ones off my J45 and about four other sets on the shelf in boxes. I might be interested in buying a set for an upcoming guitar I'm going to build. Will send you a PM Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vacamartin Posted July 21, 2016 Share Posted July 21, 2016 Sent you a pm. replied........ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slimt Posted July 21, 2016 Share Posted July 21, 2016 I have a set of 6 kluson closed from a j45.. if your in need,... Brand new.... I could use a set of open gears.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Versatile Posted July 21, 2016 Share Posted July 21, 2016 Always loved open gear tuners... Most if not all Classical guitars have open ones IMO they have an original vintage look to them And easy access with the oil can... Personal favourite being a Maccaferri jazzer V Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blindboygrunt Posted July 21, 2016 Share Posted July 21, 2016 I'm a fan of open back tuners also. I have white button tuners on the j45 , they are closed back but I can live with them , if money wasn't an object if have relaxed them But my d35 is definitely going to have the big ugly tuners taken off one of these days very soon . They really don't look good at all , to me anyway But one mans pizza is another mans indigestion Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cougar Posted July 21, 2016 Share Posted July 21, 2016 If you're planning on dragging the headstock of your guitar down a dusty country road, sure........ I'm walkin' down the highway With my guitar case in my hand Been walkin' down the highway With my guitar case in my hand Ain't goin' back to Minnesota Gonna start me a rock 'n' roll band. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
milod Posted July 21, 2016 Share Posted July 21, 2016 Yeah, I've been through the era when everybody was adding Grovers to anything with strings. Thing is, I'll agree that a lot of half-decent guitars had reeeeeally cheap open tuners, too. Good open tuners are fine by me. Certainly good enough to leave on instead of the cobbled mess somebody pulled on my old '50s archtop to add Grovers by leaving the original screw holes open and forcing the Grovers and their different screw arrangements to work. Newer mid-range guitars, even less expensive ones, with Grover or equivalents or even the cheaper versions can keep the tuners they have as long as they do what tuners are supposed to do. As noted, even very high end classical guitars have open gear tuners. Even Flamenco guitars nowadays tend to have open gear "classical guitar" tuners instead of the old-style traditional friction pegs as found on fiddles. And even fiddles with friction pegs tend to have fine-tuning devices that functionally are open-geared. m Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Papawooly Posted July 21, 2016 Share Posted July 21, 2016 Am I missing something here about open back tuners? Personally I dislike them and immediately remove them from my guitars. Sealed tuners just seam better protected to me and the open gears look tacky. So why do so many otherwise fine guitars have these? If anyone needs some I have the ones off my J45 and about four other sets on the shelf in boxes. Well, my 45 L-7 (wartime mutant) came with open-back tuners from the Flattop line, with the nice pearl buttons and they are original to this instrument, so I guess I'll keep them. My 46 L-50 also came with open-backs (also original) so they will also stay. I do unserstand your thinking, they seem a bit underwhelming on such otherwise solid instruments. I do have sweet Grovers on my 51 L-4CN, and although they "feel" so much smoother, I hate that the back of my headstock looks like soneone took a 12 gauge to it... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
58 Relic Posted July 21, 2016 Share Posted July 21, 2016 I'll stick with modern tuners although I hate the finger prints that develop on my nickel plated ones Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tman Posted July 21, 2016 Share Posted July 21, 2016 The open back grovers on my J-45 Acacia are fabulous. I like them a lot. Lightweight and super stable. I live in So. California where dust is ubiquitous, especially now during the extended drought only minimally impacted by last year's el nino recently dubbed "The Great Disappointment El Nino of 2015-2016". No issues. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kelly campbell Posted July 21, 2016 Share Posted July 21, 2016 The open back grovers on my J-45 Acacia are fabulous. I like them a lot. Lightweight and super stable. I live in So. California where dust is ubiquitous, especially now during the extended drought only minimally impacted by last year's el nino recently dubbed "The Great Disappointment El Nino of 2015-2016". No issues. Hey Dr. How are you?? How is the family? I was just curious about the weight difference issue here, do you really see that much difference in the two? I have only one that has the open tuners and it is the small body that you used to own, so it is really hard for me to compare to any of the other enclosed since they are on larger bodied guitars. Hope all is well for you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blindboygrunt Posted July 21, 2016 Share Posted July 21, 2016 Surely no one is staying away from open back tuners because of dust getting in them ? Please tell me that's not an issue 😕 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tman Posted July 21, 2016 Share Posted July 21, 2016 Hey Dr. How are you?? How is the family? I was just curious about the weight difference issue here, do you really see that much difference in the two? I have only one that has the open tuners and it is the small body that you used to own, so it is really hard for me to compare to any of the other enclosed since they are on larger bodied guitars. Hope all is well for you. Thanks Kelly, great to hear from you and I hope you are still loving that L-00 Latin Custom! Maybe it's a perception thing. My 45 Custom has what I think are bulky tuners and it just seems more substantial holding the neck. Again probably perception. The Acacia just feels lighter and the tuners are rock solid. Maybe it is like in the beginning of a relationship where the new one can do no wrong Surely no one is staying away from open back tuners because of dust getting in them ? Please tell me that's not an issue 😕 The OP mentioned it in a subsequent post about Washington state I was assuming it was a negative attributable to open backs. I took it as an opportunity to exclaim my disappointment in the lack luster el nino is all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fortyearspickn Posted July 21, 2016 Share Posted July 21, 2016 Kluson, Grover and Waverlys on StewMac. Lists the exact weight per item. .434 vs.386 lbs each. A difference of .048 lbs. each .622 vs .352 lbs each A difference of .170 lbs each I shudder to think of the added weight when you put your capo on the head to store it.And then putting your clip on tuner tuner there. Wow. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dhanners623 Posted July 22, 2016 Share Posted July 22, 2016 I have open-back Waverlys and they really are better than anything else, open-back or enclosed. Smooth as can be. Pricey, but worth it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OldCowboy Posted July 22, 2016 Share Posted July 22, 2016 Kluson, Grover and Waverlys on StewMac. Lists the exact weight per item. .434 vs.386 lbs each. A difference of .048 lbs. each .622 vs .352 lbs each A difference of .170 lbs each I shudder to think of the added weight when you put your capo on the head to store it.And then putting your clip on tuner tuner there. Wow. Gotta quit storing my extra flatpick between the E and A strings on the headstock before all that heft does a number on my back! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bassetman Posted July 23, 2016 Author Share Posted July 23, 2016 I am in Washington.....but not the Washington you just pictured. No evergreens except sagebrush and very little rain...was jokingly referring to the dust. Open gears give me the feeling of dry transmissions and flashing warning lights . Just a personal thing. ;) BTW if you want to get a bunch of PMs mention you have extra tuners lying around. A situation that has now been fixed . Nice to talk to all you. I learned a lot in the discussion, thanks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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