BobF_ Posted October 27, 2014 Share Posted October 27, 2014 How did those nurse get spit on in full coverage gear taking care of Ebola people ? Lack of munny ... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
retrorod Posted October 27, 2014 Share Posted October 27, 2014 Kaci Hickox lives 40 miles from me. Hope she feels fine. I sure hope so too. I bet you are not too worried about it (catching it)...!? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ksdaddy Posted October 27, 2014 Share Posted October 27, 2014 I sure hope so too. I bet you are not too worried about it (catching it)...!? Like everywhere else in the country, we're split. Personally since she's raised such a stink, putting her civil rights above the good of the people, especially given her profession, I don't think she's made any friends up here. By contrast, the good will and extra measure of protection provided by some quarantine time would have made her a local hero. My opinion is that it's less of a "You might infect me with ebola" thing but rather "You are so selfish about a little inconvenience that you are willing to take a chance on infecting me". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
milod Posted October 27, 2014 Share Posted October 27, 2014 I have kinda mixed emotions on this one. I look back at a piece I did some years ago of a guy who (finally) got a major WWI medal from the French government. Yes, he was in the U.S. Army; yes, he had the job of stacking dead bodies like cordwood who had been fellow soldiers in his company. But he lever left the U.S. It was the "Spanish Flu" epidemic during that war. I'm convinced that my grandma made my grandpa move closer to town 'stedda out in the boonies largely because they lost a child to that same flu. How in the world did a baby get that deadly strain of flu - and her siblings and parents 25 miles from town in the pre-automobile days didn't? That's why I tend to be on the side of additional caution on the ebola thing. We think we can target an evolving virus. I'm not so sure we can. Can folks "cured" of it still carry the virus? I know I still carry the chicken pox virus. This is one case where "politics" gets involved and it ain't necessarily a traditional "party politics" sort of thing, but rather a question of where the point might be of saying enough is enough. I don't think "we" have that "enough is enough" nailed in today's world. Unfortunately "we" also obviously don't have it nailed as to how to stop the spread of a horrid virus any better than our near ancestors stopped the flu in the late teens of the 20th century. Estimates then were of 20 to 40 million deaths - more in 1918 than during four years of the Black Death. And we were "modern" in the early 20th century, too. At least so folks figured. We talk of the horrid conditions of WWI - but more Americans died of flu than battle. That was with a morbidity rate of about 2.5 percent. Ebola is what? 20 times that? Back then there were various "government" attempts to stop the flu from spreading. They didn't work well - or well enough. What they did do is let "us" begin belief that government and "science" had answers we should accept regardless of loss of personal freedoms. m Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
retrorod Posted October 28, 2014 Share Posted October 28, 2014 Like everywhere else in the country, we're split. Personally since she's raised such a stink, putting her civil rights above the good of the people, especially given her profession, I don't think she's made any friends up here. By contrast, the good will and extra measure of protection provided by some quarantine time would have made her a local hero. My opinion is that it's less of a "You might infect me with ebola" thing but rather "You are so selfish about a little inconvenience that you are willing to take a chance on infecting me". Glad to hear that you have some 'rational and normal' thoughts on this. Sorry, you blind-sided me....I wasn't expecting it.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ksdaddy Posted October 28, 2014 Share Posted October 28, 2014 I blind side everyone when I have rational and normal thoughts about ANYTHING. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TommyK Posted October 28, 2014 Share Posted October 28, 2014 How did those nurse get spit on in full coverage gear taking care of Ebola people ? That's just it. The nurses, front line health workers who cleaned up after the vluminous fluids exited from the patient's body, were not properly, FULLY covered for days until the proper equipment could be sourced. One news story indicates that their necks were not fully covered. As far as Milod's Spanish Flu comparison and someone far from the "Big City" catching it.... Though it was and is known as the Spanish Influenza, owing to the, then belief, that it originated in Spain.. Current medical historians believe it actually got it's start from migratory birds (it is a bird flu) in the state of Kansas, USA. The spread tended to follow the rail lines from there to the larger cities where conscripts were gathering at cantonments through-out the United States. From there it jumped the Atlantic to Europe. At the time, the medical profession didn't know what they were dealing with. Nor was there much ability for physicians to communicate with each other over long distances to compare notes... this was 1918, telephones were not as ubiquitous as they are now. I suspect, then, that it was in Spain that someone finally identified it as something different than ever seen before and was named as such. It is possible that it was circulating for years, in a relatively small geographic area, then spread like wildfire when rapid mobility was afforded by the newly expanded rail system, coupled with vast numbers of humans being transported in this fashion as a result of the war effort. Oddly, the mortality rate (percentage of victims who died of the disease) in 1918-1919 was highest in humans in great physical condition and in the prime of their lives (soldiers). The young and old died at a lower percentage. My grandfather was mustered into the National Army in the fall of 1917 at Camp Grant in Rockford, Illinois. At some point the Artillery brigade and machine gun brigades were moved the Camps Robinson and McCoy in Sparta, WI. In September of '18 the Arty and machine gunners were to return to Camp Grant to join their Division, 86th Blackhawk. Due to an outbreak of the influenza in Rockford, the units in Wisconsin were moved directly, by rail, to New York City. At about the same time, the 86th's infantry and cavalry, still at Camp Grant, were shipped out to New York to meet up with the Arty and Mg's in NYC. Not long after the first conscripts at Camp Grant left, the Spanish influenza broke at the camp. The original plan was to let the boys spend a week seeing the sights in NY. But the plans changed due to fear of the Influenza. Little time was spent between the rail cars and the ship which took Grandpa to England. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
milod Posted October 28, 2014 Share Posted October 28, 2014 Tommy.. Yeah, I used the term "Spanish Flu" because that tends to offer about the easiest "googling." <grin> One might note too that a lot of mosquito-borne diseases have popped up again after being nearly extinguished after the end of DDT use. A lotta things having to do with various epidemics is - and has been - as much "politics" as medical science of the era. That's whether 700 years ago or yesterday. That's because people are involved. I'm personally concerned how the ebola thing will play out. The HIV/AIDS virus still is functionally untouched in terms of killing it. Actually one might make a case that chicken pox is not a nice disease and there are few "overhead issues" involved regardless that it reappears as shingles on lots of folks who thought they'd overcome it as children. Variations on influenza and, heavens, the "common cold," are functionally unchecked regardless of flu vaccines. The ancient Romans didn't have "germ theory" as we think of it, but one might note that their directions for setting up military camps and such showed a knowledge that some stuff lent itself to illnesses. Such too often is half ignored among us. We seem instead to be concerned by the issue of the day such as too much sugar in soft drinks. I don't know how this one will play out, but I think the concern arises from the fact that once symptoms occur, it's a nasty, often short-lived disease in a short-lived victim. Other nasty, even more fatal, diseases tend to get less concern because death is achieved over a longer period of time. And we tend to become bored rather than maintaining long-term concern about eradicating a disease as once we did with smallpox and some other diseases. When's the last time anyone heard of a leper colony - and we don't even call it leprosy any more, but the more politically correct "Hansen's Disease." We still don't know how it's transmitted. It's still a scourge in many places on the globe. Polio? Few of us here remember the fears of "infantile paralysis" or such as victims in "iron lungs" as they prayed for recovery. I really wonder at times the degree to which we really do that much better than our ancestors. m Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
4Hayden Posted October 28, 2014 Author Share Posted October 28, 2014 Tommy.. Yeah, I used the term "Spanish Flu" because that tends to offer about the easiest "googling." <grin> One might note too that a lot of mosquito-borne diseases have popped up again after being nearly extinguished after the end of DDT use. A lotta things having to do with various epidemics is - and has been - as much "politics" as medical science of the era. That's whether 700 years ago or yesterday. That's because people are involved. I'm personally concerned how the ebola thing will play out. The HIV/AIDS virus still is functionally untouched in terms of killing it. Actually one might make a case that chicken pox is not a nice disease and there are few "overhead issues" involved regardless that it reappears as shingles on lots of folks who thought they'd overcome it as children. Variations on influenza and, heavens, the "common cold," are functionally unchecked regardless of flu vaccines. The ancient Romans didn't have "germ theory" as we think of it, but one might note that their directions for setting up military camps and such showed a knowledge that some stuff lent itself to illnesses. Such too often is half ignored among us. We seem instead to be concerned by the issue of the day such as too much sugar in soft drinks. I don't know how this one will play out, but I think the concern arises from the fact that once symptoms occur, it's a nasty, often short-lived disease in a short-lived victim. Other nasty, even more fatal, diseases tend to get less concern because death is achieved over a longer period of time. And we tend to become bored rather than maintaining long-term concern about eradicating a disease as once we did with smallpox and some other diseases. When's the last time anyone heard of a leper colony - and we don't even call it leprosy any more, but the more politically correct "Hansen's Disease." We still don't know how it's transmitted. It's still a scourge in many places on the globe. Polio? Few of us here remember the fears of "infantile paralysis" or such as victims in "iron lungs" as they prayed for recovery. I really wonder at times the degree to which we really do that much better than our ancestors. m Seems to me a mosquito could bite a Ebola infected person and transfer their fluids to another ? just a thought Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IanHenry Posted October 28, 2014 Share Posted October 28, 2014 Seems to me a mosquito could bite a Ebola infected person and transfer their fluids to another ? just a thought Yes, I was thinking exactly the same thing. I find it hard to imagine all those thousands of people in Africa exchanging body fluids. Ian Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
badbluesplayer Posted October 28, 2014 Share Posted October 28, 2014 I'm more worried about getting sucked into a tractor beam than getting ebola. I don't know about you guys, but I was too lazy to be a doctor. Heck, I've never even taken a course in infectious disease control. Plus, I was brought up on the playground to have some backbone and be tough. Or at least act tough. I had bypass surgery. I can't go around being all worried about a little sissy ebola that's infected one millionth of the population. Heck, I hardly get out of the house. Edit - One hundred millionth of the population. The thing about being wrong is this. If there's no consequence to being wrong, then people say anything. Ebola travels through mind melds. Ebola can infect you from five feet, ten feet, size thirteen feet. Whatever. If people got hit by a comet every time they were wrong, they'd be a little more responsible. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BobF_ Posted October 28, 2014 Share Posted October 28, 2014 I'm more worried about getting sucked into a tractor beam than getting ebola. I don't know about you guys, but I was too lazy to be a doctor. Heck, I've never even taken a course in infectious disease control. Plus, I was brought up on the playground to have some backbone and be tough. Or at least act tough. I had bypass surgery. I can't go around being all worried about a little sissy ebola that's infected one millionth of the population. Heck, I hardly get out of the house. The thing about being wrong is this. If there's no consequence to being wrong, then people say anything. Ebola travels through mind melds. Ebola can infect you from five feet, ten feet, size thirteen feet. Whatever. If people got hit by a comet every time they were wrong, they'd be a little more responsible. And if people are wrong about Ebola, a lot of OTHER people will get "hit by comets" I'm glad you brought up the thinking about "what if you're wrong" ... so what are the consequences if the powers that be are wrong about how difficult it is for Ebola to spread thru humans? Conversely, what are the consequences of being too cautious? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Searcy Posted October 28, 2014 Share Posted October 28, 2014 I'm more worried about the zombie apocalypse than about any substantial number of people getting Ebola in the U.S. If the number of cases in the U.S. passes 1000 then I guess I'll start paying attention to it. Until then I'm to busy to be bothered. As for Obama... loook... I can come up with a long list of things I don't like about our president and his administration but blaming him for 3 cases of Ebola in the U.S. is just partisan stupidity. If you're really worried you can buy this ebola proof hazmat suit though. Seems like a deal!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Notes_Norton Posted October 28, 2014 Share Posted October 28, 2014 Use some logic here. If a mosquito could transfer Ebola there would be hundreds of people with the disease in the USA by now. That doesn't mean the disease isn't serious. It does mean that once cable news gets a hold of it, rational thinking goes out the window and sensationalism reigns. More people die in the US every 15 minutes due to auto accidents than have died from Ebola since the beginning of time. Watch those bodily fluids, don't share needles, don't eat primates or bats, and drive defensively. Insights and incites by Notes Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
quapman Posted October 28, 2014 Share Posted October 28, 2014 I'm more worried about getting sucked into a tractor beam than getting ebola. I don't know about you guys, but I was too lazy to be a doctor......... I can't go around being all worried about a little sissy ebola that's infected one millionth of the population. Heck, I hardly get out of the house. Edit - One hundred millionth of the population. The thing about being wrong is this. If there's no consequence to being wrong, then people say anything. Ebola travels through mind melds. Ebola can infect you from five feet, ten feet, size thirteen feet. Whatever. If people got hit by a comet every time they were wrong, they'd be a little more responsible. That was beautiful man! Good to hear some logic for a change. Eblah blah blah. Ebola has been around for what, 40 years now? If it's even half as transmittable as half of you make it out to be don't you think we would all be dead by now? Seriously,, turn off the TV,, close the web browser hosting your Dr. Google and get outside and seek out a life. lol As for Obama... loook... I can come up with a long list of things I don't like about our president and his administration but blaming him for 3 cases of Ebola in the U.S. is just partisan stupidity. I may not agree with your political ideals nor you with mine, but your logical rationale is undeniably on point. Well said Mr. Searcy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
milod Posted October 28, 2014 Share Posted October 28, 2014 I'm personally not howling at Obama on this one. Instead, to me it's a matter of considering history of similar circumstances. We have two problems, first there's ebola itself that is a frightening disease; second is that it's a frightening disease which means people are concerned and so are their governance folks from "nonpolitical" local levels into national discussions. "We" forget too easily the concerns surrounding the so-called Spanish flu and tell ourselves how much advanced we are both in treating disease and in communications. The problem is not just the disease, it's the concerns of the public surrounding the disease and questions of who can do anything to stop it. One may suggest that public reaction may or may not be rational given the facts, but the current U.S. national concern which has drawn in even political commentary is not at all the first time such has happened. It's just more obvious today because of the instant media compared to such as the flu epidemic or a few years later the plague epidemic in the western U.S. that still hasn't been eradicated. "Politics" in the sense of overall public reaction to plague is seen quite clearly where I live, and the "protect the prairie dogs that carry plague" is a strong counterforce to eradication of rodents that carry the disease - and even "news coverage" when it's contracted. Luckily with antibiotics, the death rate is only around 11 percent in developed nations. But 11 percent? To me it's irrelevant at some point whether there's need for fear of ebola, it's a matter of "politics" how some countermeasures may be taken regardless of efficacy. Again, that's not "party politics" but usually a more nonpartisan perspective largely determined by populations and "leaders" who feel that regardless of the risk, they should do "something" in case something worse might happen and they're then portrayed as fiddling as their "Rome" burns. That definitely happened during the flu epidemic - but we forget that. m Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
quapman Posted October 28, 2014 Share Posted October 28, 2014 Rome is not burning, the sky is not falling. 3 cases on the entire North American continent is no "outbreak". Sometimes I think people just like to hear themselves talk logic be damned. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
milod Posted October 28, 2014 Share Posted October 28, 2014 Quap... Exactly my point: but that's what stirs public response and public response, like it or not, can't be ignored regardless. How about the U.S. federal law requiring a certain special type of grate on all public swimming pools due to the drowning death of one child allowed to run around unsupervised - and meanwhile far more children of that age group die when unsupervised by drowning in toilet stools or 5-gallon pails. But there was big noise and public outcry and "if it saves only one life" logic involved - hence a federal law that made a lot of money for a grate-making company. It's not a matter of logic and reality. It's a matter of perceptions and emotions. But that itself never will be ignored by our "politics" any more than it did in antiquity. m Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rct Posted October 28, 2014 Share Posted October 28, 2014 Take any disease, any natal death statistic, any life shortening factor out of context and you get the currently ridiculous amount of people listening to their favorite sound. The reason you don't hear much about ebola is that the places where they have it are pretty bass-ackwards. I see it as having an equal chance of ever knowing of anyone getting ebola as the chance of knowing of anyone run through with a spear in a tribal war over the stream down behind the municipal building. These things live in context. You'll probably get ebola in the US sometime after the folks that live with this sort of circumstance get 438 channels of sports on cable. Which will be sometime after they get electricity and Starbuckses. Meanwhile, profit driven media outlets continue to have what they call fresh information about ebola, while spouting the same non-information drivel they've been spouting since it started. rct Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zigzag Posted October 28, 2014 Share Posted October 28, 2014 Those complaining about poor leadership from the government are the same ones who are against having a surgeon general... afraid he/she will take away our cheeseburgers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
milod Posted October 28, 2014 Share Posted October 28, 2014 RCT... Actually I went to high school with a kid who suddenly was super "down." Turns out his mother was killed in a tribal conflict in what at the time was turning from being the "Belgian Congo," whatever it was called at the time. The old saying that all politics is "local" is getting supercharged by the multiplicity of "media," not just a matter of "profit seeking media." Frankly 25 years ago I would likely have agreed - but the internet era has to a great degree overcome that as a factor. I'll add that's one reason I don't "tweet" since I can't even walk out on the street in front of my small town office without being told of the local "news" that includes ebola concerns passed on through Facebook or whatever from a friend of a cousin who passed on a comment from another friend whose sister said that her friends said on Twitter that... m Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
quapman Posted October 28, 2014 Share Posted October 28, 2014 Quap... Exactly my point: but that's what stirs public response and public response, like it or not, can't be ignored regardless. Public response is controlled. There is proof of that right here on this very thread. People have stopped thinking and simply devour what they are spoon fed. I kinda feel sorry for folks who don't see that. Sadly,, they seem to make up the majority. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rct Posted October 28, 2014 Share Posted October 28, 2014 RCT... Actually I went to high school with a kid who suddenly was super "down." Turns out his mother was killed in a tribal conflict in what at the time was turning from being the "Belgian Congo," whatever it was called at the time. The old saying that all politics is "local" is getting supercharged by the multiplicity of "media," not just a matter of "profit seeking media." Frankly 25 years ago I would likely have agreed - but the internet era has to a great degree overcome that as a factor. I'll add that's one reason I don't "tweet" since I can't even walk out on the street in front of my small town office without being told of the local "news" that includes ebola concerns passed on through Facebook or whatever from a friend of a cousin who passed on a comment from another friend whose sister said that her friends said on Twitter that... m Yeah, I agree. Facebook and twitter are just large digital lunch tables in a ninth grade cafeteria. We all know how much was passed as fact at them. People that rely on that stuff as a source of information deserve whatever they get. You can probably guess I don't, haven't, probably never will do any of that. Today, the media spends an inordinate amount of time reading facebook posts and twitter to us. Isn't that professional? It actually passes for research! Geniuses. Aside from that, the facts are incontrovertible, no matter what social media you use. Context, like in everything else, is everything. No matter how many people have "heard" something and passed it along via their uber studly schmart phones and tablets, it doesn't make it fact. Just like Tammy wasn't easy in 9th grade, but lots of people sure "heard" she was. 9000 ebola contractions, 4500 deaths, something like that. ~52% mortality rate is about spot on. What statistics and MySpace don't account for is context. Period. You gotta go skydiving to die from skydiving. rct Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
L8_4thesh0w Posted October 28, 2014 Share Posted October 28, 2014 The death rate for Ebola is seeming, to me at least, to be proportional to the time it takes to confirm diagnosis and prompt and proper treatment received accordingly. Both nurses who tended to the guy who died in Dallas have recovered and been declared free of the disease. The differences between the immune systems of peoples here and in the underdeveloped world may also be a factor in the survival rate. If this is in fact the case then I'm sure we will be hearing about it. If not, the law of averages has some catching up to do. Σß Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
matonanjin Posted October 28, 2014 Share Posted October 28, 2014 Seems to me a mosquito could bite a Ebola infected person and transfer their fluids to another ? just a thought Nope. A mosquito does not transfer body fluids. For those transmittable diseases in which a mosquito is the carrier the actual virus only is transferred from patient to patient. As for Obama... loook... I can come up with a long list of things I don't like about our president and his administration but blaming him for 3 cases of Ebola in the U.S. is just partisan stupidity. No. No!! No!! What's wrong with you?!?! It's cloudy here today. That's Obama's fault! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Archived
This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.