Amp dilemma

[Black Dog]

Hi all.

 

So, I am a struggling newbie. I have a Fender Champion 20. I don't like it. sounds bad to me. I almost never use it. I normally practice with a Line 6 pocket pod using headphones. That sounds pretty good to me. I normally use the "heavy - huge brit gain" setting.

 

I have tried a Bugera V5 infinium that I did not like very much. sounded poor. I think maybe it was the small speaker?? Then I tried a Marshall Code 25. To my surprise, I didn't like any of the presets. I spent several days trying to tweek the tone using the presets as a starting point but could never get anything I liked. Next, I tried a Marshal MG30cfx. That sounds the best of all but still not "great".

 

So now I am looking at a Fender mustang II vs a Bugera V22. I like the reviews and demos of both. I like the idea of the presets on the Fender but the demos of the Marshall sounded good but when I actually had the amp and tried it I thought it sucked.

 

One question I have is, can you use pedals through SS amps, or a modeling amp, or are they really intended for use with tube amps?

 

Any advice would be appreciated.

[LarryUK]

You can use anything with anything. SS amps are ok. Their only letdown is they don't have enough punch for live work. Ive got a Hughes and Kettner Matrix which is SS. It's a great amp. But with a band it's weak. I tried it through a 4 x 12 and that helped. I'm looking for a Hughes and Kettner Switchblade now which is similar but all valve.

[saturn]

First of all, you can use pedals along with modeling amps, but IMO that kinda defeats the purpose of the modeling features.

 

Again, just my opinion, but I've never played through a modeling amp or pedal that I really like the sound of. They're convenient but that's about it. Now there are some decent SS amps out there by Fender and Roland to name a few. But I stay away from the ones with modeling features. Example, I have a Roland Blues Cube which sounds great by itself or with pedals. Only problem is that it just died on me.

[surfpup]

If possible save your money for a decent tube amp. I find the SS and modeling stuff sounds great for practice at home and even for recording - but tends to fail in live situations. Again this is only my own experience. Many people find a loud, clean solid state amp to be a god vehicle for pedals. I tend to prefer the opposite - a good clean(ish) tube amp makes a great platform for pedals and even for digital modelers on the front end.

 

You didn't give any info about budget, styles of music you play, or wattage requirements (gigging or not?). It would be a lot easier to offer advice if we knew those things.

[C-RAM]

There are no rules.

 

Try as many different amps as you can - you'll eventually come across something that appeals to you. Now, if you'll be able to AFFORD it is another thing!

 

It's all a learning experience as you go along; just use your ears and brain, be honest to yourself and you'll be fine... ;)

[Black Dog]

Thanks for the helpful replies. I think you are all saying what I thought you might. Basically that a good tube amp is what i need. I don't gig, just play for myself. so I don't need a lot of wattage. but I do want good tone. I play late 60's-70's rock, Zeppelin, Skynyrd, CCR, Aerosmith, etc.

 

So far my experience with modeling has not been good but, the reviews of the Fender mustang are generally good, and it sounds good on demos. But, as I said, the other modeling amps I've actually tried have not lived up to reviews and demos.

 

So that leaves me with which tube amp. I kind of like the Bugera V22 demos I've heard. It is a little less expensive than a Marshall, for example. I don't know if the lower price is a reflection of quality (it usually is...). Maybe a Marshall is the way to go. I'd like to stay under $600-700 if I can.

[surfpup]

For playing at home I'd suggest a tube amp in the 5 watt range. That's loud enough to wake the neighbors if you wind it up late at night. There are lots of good options in that range.

 

Marshall Class 5

VHT Special 6

Fender Champ (you can buy a vintage silverface one and still be under budget)

Blackstar has a few low wattage offerings

Vox AC4

 

Here's a link to a review of quite a few...

 

http://middle8reviews.com/top-12-low-watt-tube-amps-500/

[IanHenry]

I find that a Fender Blues Junior is a great all round amp. I have one and it's great for in the house and plenty big enough for small gigs.

 

 

Ian

[Pinch]

Blackstar TVP260. Loud enough to sub for a half-stack (it's a 2x10), works at home as well, versatile enough to sub for... pretty much anything. Cheap enough, too. You can probably get a used one for two hundred bucks or less. Or something.

 

The "modulation" effects haven't had the best of luck with reviewers, though. I dunno - I don't really use modulation effects. I think it was the delay that came under fire. I'm no expert.

 

http://www.musicradar.com/reviews/guitars/blackstar-id260tvp-572297

 

Re: the review: I dunno how the reviewer got the impression that it takes some time getting used to the controls. It's super intuitive. One word of advice, tho: doesn't come with the foot switch out of the box. Trust me - you'll need it. Or, rather, want it.

 

And unless I'm mistaken...Every time you add something to a setting, a LED will flash. These go to eleven, though - say you have the gain on ten. Save the setting. Dial gain to zero. Hit the foot switch for the setting - there you go, the gain is on ten, but the dial is on zero. Turn it up - you'll find the LED flashes at around seven onward. You're now officially Nigel Tufnel, playing on eleven. The amp's attitude is a shrug and "whatever - it's YOUR funeral". Should be added that this works for the EQ as well, a s o.

 

It's fantastic. There's even a LOT of computer-USB-patchy-downloady thingies, emulators, settings, for those so inclined.

 

Once the world realizes my innate genius, I'll get expensive tube amps blasting at my adoring fans. Even then, I'll still play this at home.

 

And it's modestly priced. Wanna be Slash on a budget? The Epi LP PlusTop will set you back as little as this amp.

 

You could argue that my buddy's Gibby Studio through his JCM800 SHOULD sound better because it's expensive, and my setup is really cheap. I say, knock yourself out. All I care about is playability and tone. If it plays amazing and sounds amazing, then I'd fxxking PREFER it to be cheap.

 

Rambling a bit. Long story short, I love Blackstar, good on them for taking what they learned at Marshall and utilizing it so that even their cheaper combos sound awesome. (I'm fairly sure their ex-bosses at Marshall do not agree.)

[american cheez]

For playing at home I'd suggest a tube amp in the 5 watt range. That's loud enough to wake the neighbors if you wind it up late at night. There are lots of good options in that range.

 

Marshall Class 5

VHT Special 6

Fender Champ (you can buy a vintage silverface one and still be under budget)

Blackstar has a few low wattage offerings

Vox AC4

 

Here's a link to a review of quite a few...

 

http://middle8reviews.com/top-12-low-watt-tube-amps-500/

 

this is most of what i would say as well. if you are going tube for a practice amp. these are what you need. i've had all the amps in the above list except for the blackstar, which i am actually buying in a few more weeks. so far, the one i like best of all is the vht special 6. my personal pref is for the regular special 6, not the ultra. no where else can you get a handwired tube amp at those prices. so far i've had 2 vht amps and loved them. i will definitely be getting another this year.

the ac4 and lil nite train are known for blowing transformers. i've owned both, and both of mine were repaired under warranty. both times the tech told me they get so many of them back, they don't even have to wait for a salesman to give a return authorization. they just send them back and and replace the entire head.

 

however, i would like to add something to discussion that hasn't been mentioned yet.

 

buy a head and quality 12" cab. there are a few reasons i say this.

 

1) any spkr smaller than a 12 is not going to move enough air to get the tonal range offered by a quality amp. not unless you're ready to spend big money.

 

2) going head/cab allows you to get a quality spkr and cab that you won't have to worry about ever again. if you don't like the amp,(or want to try something different) you get a new head, it costs less than a combo amp, and you're not stuck paying for the factory speaker which often is....less than great. ac4 is a perfect example of this. decent amp, **** spkr and totally shitty chipboard cab. however, with vht you get a nice cab with good wood. spkr is still not great though

 

3) the cab will flavor the head as much as any other part of your chain. buy a crappy cab, any amp you play through it will sound like crap, and vice versa.

 

 

lastly and most importantly is volume level. all tube amps have a "sweet spot" for volume where they sound the best. except for a few lucky guys who can play as loud as they want, this level is always louder than what you'd normally get away with in your living room. pedals will help some, but at the end of the day, you're spkr needs to be moving in it's optimal range to produce the best tones. nature of the beast.

 

if you decide to stay with ss, go with a roland cube that has a 12" spkr. it's probably the best in terms of bang for your buck. there are several better ss amps, but they aren't cheap.

[badbluesplayer]

Some guys really like good solid state amps. Those guys can chime in. I like all-tube amps. Fender makes a good line of them. Marshall does too. Blues Juniors are $500 or $600 new. Maybe 350 - 400 used.

 

Surfpup listed some good 5 watt amps. I like those.

[charlie brown]

I have, and use different Tube amps! Marshall TSL 100 half-stack, Vox AC-30, Fender Twin Reverb, Blues Jr.,

and Hot Rod Deluxe. So, I LOVE my "Tube" amps, for sure!

 

But...

I have 1 "solid state" Fender...and old, early '80's, "Sidekick 35 Reverb," an a Hybrid (tube and SS) Marshall AVT-20.

BOTH sound great, and different, as well. Are they full tube Twins or Marshall Super Leads? NO! But, I get great

tone, from both. Just takes a bit finesse, and knowing, and acceptance of their differences. I have "gigged" both

bars and small clubs, with either (sometimes both) amps. I've even preamped the Sidekick (it has two input jacks)

into the Marshall, if/when I needed even more volume. I've done the same, with the Sidekick, into a Blues Jr. or

HR Deluxe...for that little "extra" "beefyness" that 2X12's will give you. They are portable enough, that I don't

need to drag around a 2x12 cabinet. Just (if need be) plug the guitar into the Sidekick, the 2nd input goes out to

the Marshall (or Blues Jr./HR deluxe, etc.).

 

Another thing one can try, with a SS amp, is using a compressor pedal, to ad that "tube like" sag/compression. The trick

there is NOT to overdo the compressor, just to use enough, to give the SS amp, some tube like compression. It's doable,

with some experimentation.

 

Just my thoughts, and experiences! Your's may vary!

 

CB

[Black Dog]

Thanks again to everyone for the advice, all good. I do particularly like the advice to go with a head and cabinet.

 

To that end, I just ordered a Blackstar HT1R. With that, I can use it as is for now and add a cabinet later if I like it (which i think i will).

 

Thanks again to everyone for answering these basic questions but I don't have any guitar playing friends and I live far from any place I can easily try these for myself.

 

1 tiny little watt, who woulda thought... we'll see, but I do have high hopes.

[milod]

Well, here's the grouchy old man.

 

I think some of the guys already hit some of the high spots I'll hammer on

 

Today there are choices in front of you I couldn't imagine at my time and place as a beginner in the early '60s and as a rocker in the mid '60s and an overall saloon electric guitar picker from late '60s forward.

 

Frankly even if you're wealthy, it's easy to waste a lot of time and money on amps that you don't know much about and, other than ego, won't do you much good. I have five amps in the house and only two get much use at all.

 

a 5-watt tube amp will run as loud as practical with any stomps you want. But I'd make sure it has a headphone and/or line out for a couple of reasons.

 

My favorite amp right now, and for the past dozen-plus years is a very inexpensive solid state 30-watt Kustom acoustic-electric amp.

 

Here's my "reasons why" that I'd like you to consider.

 

It has a 10-inch speaker and enough power for practicing or for playing a solo jazz gig from a stage into a 4-500 seat theater.

 

That's including the potential of running a mike through it too, with a dedicated "mike side" although that gets "iffy" at volume.

 

It has a line out that I've rigged to go into a computer for recording. It's not a "pro" setup but I think it's more than a lotta folks get for quality with a lot more expense. I'll give you a Youtube example of that at the end here. It's more than good enough for most purposes, and personally most valuable as a practice "tool" to listen to myself and adjust.

 

No, it's not close to enough volume for a lot of venues to "play out," but as a solo it's done indoor stage stuff and outdoor "play the national anthem and then keep the music coming from the flatbed truck for 6-800 folks doing a picnic dinner. It's also done small venue (30-50 people in a saloon) blues and loud country stuff if you put it on a bar stool 'stedda on the floor behind you.

 

Oh - and you can plug in earphones that likely will sound much better to you anyway, regardless the amp you buy at any price. Part of that is the quality of today's earphones and part of it is that's what you're used to!

 

My reasons have to do with practice, playing in most likely venues and styles for me at my best, and with my bank account.

 

I have a couple tube amps that will blow out windows but will break your back.

 

Nothing, no matter what, will sound as good as even a cheapie amp when run through a professional mixing board and then into pro quality speakers in a venue with good acoustics --- or, yet better, playing back at home through a quality set of headphones.

 

https://www.youtube.com/user/mddiv

 

m

[surfpup]

 

1 tiny little watt, who woulda thought... we'll see, but I do have high hopes.

 

One of my favorite amps has only 1 watt! You should hear it through a 4-12.

 

[kidblast]

If you're looking at a Mustang, the Fender Mustang III is the way to go. The added wattage, better speaker and LCD interface (<-BIG DEAL) are worth the extra $$$

 

I've been playing for 50 years, I've had crap loads of amps, tube/solid state... you can listen to the folks who say the molders don't sound good if you want to, buy a tube amp etc.. (however, none of these guys own one, nor would I venture they have spent any time editing the settings)

 

I have two for a few years now a 1x12 100 watt and a 2x12 150watt, I wouldn't steer ya wrong, these things are incredible buys for they cost verses what they do.

 

They take pedals just fine, but you really DON'T need them.. The amp has it all. The presets are easy to change, and the FUSE software via PC/USB/AMP is an excellent editing/preset management interface.

 

I was going to buy a Code 501x12 to replace one of my Mustangs, till I tried one.. have to say, the Mustang STILL (at five year old technology verses the Code's which are new) sounded much better and it is far easier to use / edit presets.

 

Add the four button footswitch, along with the two button one that comes with the amp, you'll have complete remote control of the amp

 

Fender got these right IMHO..

[Kurt Vonnegut Fan]

 

 

To that end, I just ordered a Blackstar HT1R. With that, I can use it as is for now and add a cabinet later if I like it (which i think i will).

 

1 tiny little watt, who woulda thought... we'll see, but I do have high hopes.

Excellent choice! I've had one for about a year, and absolutely love it. I also built an extension cab with a 12" Eminence Legend 75 inside. The HT-1R sounds great, either way. And with the extension speaker, it can be freakin loud!

[Black Dog]

Well, I got cold feet. I was worried about the output from the 1 watt amp. some people say it's loud enough, others say it not very loud. I don't know.

 

So, I cancelled that order and I now have on order a Bugera G5 with a 1x12 cabinet. That's it. I'll have it Friday.