Megafrog Posted June 17, 2017 Share Posted June 17, 2017 You only have to look at the factory tours on YouTube. Gibson staff look lethargic and full of "we're American, which makes us the best" attitude. Then look at the factory tours for ESP or Chapman guitars. Most are the same factory, but there is so much pride. Then there is the corporate greed. More and more profit for less product. What do workers look like in English guitar factories? Oh wait, they don't make guitars there. Even Chapman imports his lineup. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Golden Posted June 17, 2017 Share Posted June 17, 2017 We just love that you all think enough of us americans that you expect perfection from us, flattering really. Do you apply the same standard for your electrics? Case closed lets move on these are all good people here. Yes it can always be more prefect we get it. WE LOVE YOU! Hey do you have the freaking photos of this LP or what? Im calling this BS. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Golden Posted June 17, 2017 Share Posted June 17, 2017 A photo is required to rank on Gibson QC....like this.................... Theres a QC issue with the poker chip....in fact! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
american cheez Posted June 17, 2017 Share Posted June 17, 2017 i have to say, w/o the poker chip, that guitar still looks amazing Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cody78 Posted June 17, 2017 Share Posted June 17, 2017 England vs America? Oh dear Both countries have good points and both have bad. I'm English, but don't feel the need to start posting dumb comments here about either country. Back to the guitar. Interesting someone mentioned the grain on original bursts not being perfect sometimes. Those guitars were never seen as Gibson's top of the line models back in the 50's and not quite as much care was put into them as many would believe. For example, look at the positions of the silk screens on the headstocks back then and you'll see some were way off. Wood chosen could be average or spectacular in terms of figure and/ or blemishes. It's only collectors who turned them into the holy grail of guitars. Yes bursts were great, but at the time archtops like the L5 were still considered Gibson's flagship models. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Golden Posted June 18, 2017 Share Posted June 18, 2017 i have to say, w/o the poker chip, that guitar still looks amazing thanks Its been being played for sure. You know thinking about the last post I agree the LPs by 59 with a figured top finally became an intention of matching tops. The lps from 57 to 58 were a change from Gold Tops to various degrees of the wood showing so this became an after thought. This ranged from plain top, slightly figured to the inevitable intentional nicely matched tops by late 59+ I assume. When you consider the small amount produced I believe a better focus of the variety comes into play with 59 for example. I would go out on a limb and suggest the highly figured and closely matched top you see plentiful today with LPs were a very small percent in 59. Even as this later became a price point today variance is still unavoidable. In perspective playing a plain top 59 or so so figured 59 is still playing a 59 which you would have paid a similar price for. The aspect for sure changed. Just saying. More price point focused in relation to quality yet a variance is still unavoidable by necessity. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Golden Posted June 18, 2017 Share Posted June 18, 2017 Oops DP... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ikeus Posted June 18, 2017 Share Posted June 18, 2017 that's such crock. not that he said it, but what he said, about being hand made and the need to choose one in person. they are made with as little handwork as possible, for one, and even those processes are refined down to a routine because after all, a gibson guitar is produced in a factory. they are not made one-at-a-time in a small workshop by some ancient luthier who looks like gepetto. it's a busy production facility that supplies the entire world with gibson guitars. they send hundreds and hundreds of them out the door every single day. that statement is henry using branding techniques in order to deceptively make people think of a gibson guitar as a boutique item that is rare and exclusive. the truth is, most of them are just like the rest. they are as ubiquitous to guitarists as potoato peelers are to a cook. you absolutely can buy them sight unseen and get a good guitar, and there is no valid excuse for not being able to do so. because even if henry had a factory full of santa's elves making the entire guitar by hand, there would still be no excuse for sending bad product out the door. especially when every single new guitar comes with a signed inspection card, and contains QC stampings in the body. this type of branding isn't sustainable with the rest of gibson's marketing. stores are beginning to drop gibson due to the amount of guitars they are forced to carry, and the dealer price increases, as well as other rules for retailers. eventually, ordering them through online retailers will be the only way to get one for alot of people. here in delaware there is nowhere near the selection i am used to seeing in toronto. yet, i did buy mine there (toronto) sight unseen, and got a wonderful instrument. edit: here is an article that sort of underscores my point about branding. the economics aside, what they have to say about gibson's branding is accurate: https://reverb.com/news/guitaronomics-have-guitars-become-more-expensive-over-time? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ikeus Posted June 18, 2017 Share Posted June 18, 2017 Great review/economics history of the electric guitar industry. I agree and have often said that both Gibson and Fender are pricing themselves out of the competition. I would LOVE to purchase American built products. Guitars included but as stated in the paper my of us feel hesitant going above a certain dollar level. Its a wonder that both companies have found justification (and buyers) for their products. Again, look at the prices for automobiles nowadays.. Way past the $ 1499.00 VW Bug. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IanHenry Posted June 18, 2017 Share Posted June 18, 2017 What do workers look like in English guitar factories? Oh wait, they don't make guitars there. Even Chapman imports his lineup. http://www.gordonsmithguitars.com/shop/guitars/gemini/ http://www.fyldeguitars.com/ Ian Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Megafrog Posted June 19, 2017 Share Posted June 19, 2017 http://www.gordonsmithguitars.com/shop/guitars/gemini/ http://www.fyldeguitars.com/ Ian I saw a couple of Andertons videos on these today. The Fylde guitars seemed interesting to me. I stand corrected, they do build guitars there. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
darling67 Posted June 19, 2017 Share Posted June 19, 2017 I accept guitars as is... they're all unique, and they're all going to have their own finish characteristics, and other quirks that might be nothing to some, and something to others. I've hardly ever purchased a guitar off the wall of a guitar shop. It's not all that important. I order them online or over the phone, as the models I want are never ones that are kept in-stock. Plus, I don't want to buy a guitar that's already been played by potentially a dozen people or more during its time in the shop before I could get to it. Does it play well... does it sound good? That's all any of us should be concerned with. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
merciful-evans Posted June 19, 2017 Share Posted June 19, 2017 http://www.gordonsmithguitars.com/shop/guitars/gemini/ http://www.fyldeguitars.com/ Ian I have a Fylde guitar. I bought it as a 2nd (cosmetic flaw - not for retail) from the original premises in Kirkham from Roger himself in the mid 70s. I have never craved another steel strung acoustic since then. There is now also Fibonacci, which are Peerless (Korean) "...The guitars are built in the far-East, and then the final assembly, painting, lacquering and hand finish is done in the UK." https://guitarvillage.co.uk/categories/guitars/archtop-slash-semi-hollow-guitars/fibonacci and Bailey: https://shop.baileyguitars.co.uk/ not to mention that RabsWood geezer! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Golden Posted June 19, 2017 Share Posted June 19, 2017 "I've hardly ever purchased a guitar off the wall of a guitar shop." I hear you but when I hit GPS here there are five, just Guitar Centers within 50 miles, let alone sam ash, ma and pa shops etc. To me it only makes sense in a case where I cant find what I'm looking for in person. But your right on-line is a plus for sure. To me on line brings the biggest issue with weight though. Granted places like sweetwater resolve the issue but by large this point is avoided. As a result all my LP weight is in the 8.5 range and my Strats under 7.5. Also this varies with neck thickness first fret which Gibson is fairly accurate with but not Fender. To me the issue with thin/fat profiles resides in first position clean fretting. For example the 30-60 and 60 profile by large are a slight problem in this area for me with 4 finger chord fretting at times. The .900 plus are OK but slightly too thick. Also places like MF etc, your not looking at the actual electric your buying unless its a scratch and dent. Your buying in the blind. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kidblast Posted June 19, 2017 Share Posted June 19, 2017 I accept guitars as is... they're all unique, and they're all going to have their own finish characteristics, and other quirks that might be nothing to some, and something to others. I've hardly ever purchased a guitar off the wall of a guitar shop. It's not all that important. I order them online or over the phone, as the models I want are never ones that are kept in-stock. Plus, I don't want to buy a guitar that's already been played by potentially a dozen people or more during its time in the shop before I could get to it. Does it play well... does it sound good? That's all any of us should be concerned with. 100% agreeing with this. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Golden Posted June 19, 2017 Share Posted June 19, 2017 don't want to buy a guitar that's already been played by potentially a dozen people or more during its time in the shop before I could get to it. That I could care less about, what I care about is the damage acquired and in relation to the price. Which makes this a "contradiction".............. Does it play well... does it sound good? That's all any of us should be concerned with. Just saying and weight doesnt matter since when? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kidblast Posted June 19, 2017 Share Posted June 19, 2017 Just saying and weight doesnt matter since when? As I get older, I notice it more than I use to.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
american cheez Posted June 19, 2017 Share Posted June 19, 2017 As I get older, I notice it more than I use to.. funny, i never cared about weight until i bought my current LP with modern weight relief. i am soooo spoiled by it. now weight is a big factor when choosing a guitar. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kidblast Posted June 19, 2017 Share Posted June 19, 2017 I have two lps, the 95 is a beast, it's close to 12 lbs. the '02 is about 9. 3lbs don't seem like a lot but the difference is pretty stark. My SGs and fenders feel like they weigh nothing at all, 7/8 lbs. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MichaelT Posted June 19, 2017 Share Posted June 19, 2017 My 81 "The V" is pretty heavy. I'm not sure how heavy it is but it feels heavier than both of my Les Pauls, one with ultra modern weight relief, the other with classic weight relief. The V has no weight relief at all. The 2007 V is really light comparatively. It's not a problem with me now but if I were playing more often and for more hours on stage at my age, I could see how it could become an issue. I use (and have always used) wide leather straps to compensate for the weight. The newest one I am using is from LM straps and is wide and has a bit of cushion built into the strap. https://lm-products.myshopify.com/collections/luxury-leathers/products/the-heritage?variant=968368571 I often stand and play with it on for an hour or two at a time and it helps distribute the weight of the guitars. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Golden Posted June 20, 2017 Share Posted June 20, 2017 It's not a problem with me now but if I were playing more often and for more hours on stage Right thats the issue, I simply became mindful of weight early on, but I think the real point is various issues discussed have various ranks of priority with players. The first thing Im mindful of is weight, but thats me. You know to a collector appearance may take precedence over weight or tone. Or with a neck accept a thinner or fatter neck without thought of 1st position ease of playing compared to the higher registers. Think about it with thin thick optics equating to better tone. To me "tone" and neck profile "are not" mutually exclusive to me being able to properly play a instrument for the proper result required. If you cant do that what good is the tone? You would be saying he sounds good and plays shitty? LOL. I just think so much comes into play and Gibson is selling on such a large scale at every price point that the idea of perfection still needs to be qualified by comparison and by large resides in the person, something similar in the USA on this scale PRS Fender I suppose. Hey I get it everyone always wants better better better I cant imagine that ever changed as we see. Now we have so many best offerings best became relevant and confusing. Perfect and practical may be at odds and the practical perfection exists at all price points made in the USA. So we want more consistency in general? Demand and expect it...sounds american. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JAC Posted June 21, 2017 Share Posted June 21, 2017 they send hundreds and hundreds of them out the door every single day. Really? Where did you learn of this? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Golden Posted June 22, 2017 Share Posted June 22, 2017 Just to chime in, I dont know how many as its an approximation, Gibson Custom Shop Nashville "comfortably" completes 50-60 electrics a day they can push 75, Memphis another 40-50 semi hollows. And that doesnt include production line. This I heard while I was there from an employee. However Gibsons sight claims .... 'Nashville, TN, and nearly all of the work involved in building the approximately 2,500 Les Pauls, Flying Vs, Explorers, SGs, Firebirds and other models made each week is done by hand. Even the automated processes — like cutting wood blocks into the shape of guitar bodies — are part of an epic ballet of scheduling that involves nearly 500 workers dedicated to keeping the guitar-making process flowing smoothly. However, that said thats a lot of guitars a year, I wouldnt sign that in blood as the truth but its from the source itself. Over 300 guitars a day from my calculation taken into consideration weekends and holidays. http://www.gibson.com/News-Lifestyle/Features/en-us/309-gibson-usa.aspx Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pippy Posted June 22, 2017 Share Posted June 22, 2017 ...I would go out on a limb and suggest the highly figured and closely matched top you see plentiful today with LPs were a very small percent in 59... According to author and guitar historian Yasuhiko Iwanade in his wonderful book "The Beauty of the 'Burst"; "Among the existing sunburst Les Pauls the percentage of the ones with any figure on the top is less than one-third. Out of this group about half have figured tops. The book-matched top with strong figure covering the entire top is believed to be a very small percentage of the total number." It is generally accepted that there were roughly 1,800 sunburst Standards made between '58 and '60. From this starting number we can see that around 600 instruments will have any trace of figure and, therefore, about 300 have what would be described as truly 'figured' tops. If we guess (and it is just a guess) that perhaps up to half of this group - but probably less - have "book-matched top with strong figure covering the entire top" it follows that there were probably fewer than 150 examples of these most sought-after guitars crafted. Pip. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Farnsbarns Posted June 22, 2017 Share Posted June 22, 2017 According to author and guitar historian Yasuhiko Iwanade in his wonderful book "The Beauty of the 'Burst"; "Among the existing sunburst Les Pauls the percentage of the ones with any figure on the top is less than one-third. Out of this group about half have figured tops. The book-matched top with strong figure covering the entire top is believed to be a very small percentage of the total number." It is generally accepted that there were roughly 1,800 sunburst Standards made between '58 and '60. From this starting number we can see that around 600 instruments will have any trace of figure and, therefore, about 300 have what would be described as truly 'figured' tops. If we guess (and it is just a guess) that perhaps up to half of this group - but probably less - have "book-matched top with strong figure covering the entire top" it follows that there were probably fewer than 150 examples of these most sought-after guitars crafted. Pip. Obviously written by a moron to be fair. 'the percentage is less than a third'. I can't abide that kind of stupidity. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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