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Zesty F

Forget luthiership, this is where Gibson is really lacks, (Mark Agnesi please read)

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There you go people, perfected hardware for us OCD's! if enough of you people agree with this then let's start a petition or something and present it to Gibson to show what we want in workmanship. This is my first post on this forum, who am I? - It doesn't matter, all that matters is that we all love guitars and can perhaps improve the world.


Until then guys interested I recommend checking out 3D printing for your pickup rings, it ain't mould but it can get the look of a moulded ring, I may even go into business myself if I can get a small 3D printer and there was interest, I would love to capitalise off of Gibson. (not really Gibson should just do it/hint)

Peace.

3D print pickup rings.jpg

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This holds no interest for me at all.

Good luck on your quest. I think you're going to need it. [smile]

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3 minutes ago, brad1 said:

This holds no interest for me at all.

Good luck on your quest. I think you're going to need it. [smile]


That's cool man, it's about the players really, it's about what we think as a community.

 If I am that one guy with 3D printed pickup rings and no one else actually seems to know or care then so be it I say! 

Cheers 🙂

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Brad1 is a player. and while you do have a valid point I don't lose any sleep over it. 

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3D printed pickup rings?  Who knew that's all it would take?  I bet Henry J. is kicking himself in the @$$ right now.

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I don't get it?  My guitar comes with pickup rings and they work fine..  How would that improve anything anyway?

The pickup rings you get on a LP are already made to include the neck angle which is why the neck pickup ring is thinner and both are tapered.

zsGRE5L.jpg

Edited by Rabs

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21 minutes ago, Rabs said:

I don't get it?  My guitar comes with pickup rings and they work fine..  How would that improve anything anyway?

The pickup rings you get on a LP are already made to include the neck angle which is why the neck pickup ring is thinner and both are tapered.

zsGRE5L.jpg



Hmm.. you are right, but the angle is unspecified and unfortunately they also fit them quite poorly from the factory, the factory fit isn't a huge deal for most players, but I wish they would at least specify the angle, I send an email now as this could possibly lead to a happy ending.

I'm not afraid to ask questions you see, I'm not afraid to make myself appear unlearned for the sake of being learned, this will be interesting.

 

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1 minute ago, Zesty F said:



Hmm.. you are right, but the angle is unspecified and unfortunately they also fit them quite poorly from the factory, the factory fit isn't a huge deal for most players, but I wish they would at least specify the angle, I send an email now as this could possibly lead to a happy ending.

I'm not afraid to ask questions you see, I'm not afraid to make myself appear unlearned for the sake of being learned, this will be interesting.

 

🙂  That's all we do on here...  Ask question after question about pointless details only us nerds even care about..  Ive been on here for almost a decade and am still at it..

When I first joined this forum I didn't even know what intonation was  😄   We all got to learn from somewhere..

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15 minutes ago, Rabs said:

🙂  That's all we do on here...  Ask question after question about pointless details only us nerds even care about..  Ive been on here for almost a decade and am still at it..

When I first joined this forum I didn't even know what intonation was  😄   We all got to learn from somewhere..


Yes.. this reminds me of when I too was at that particular stage, in fact I remember my very first starter pack guitar, I once took it into the shop for a setup and upon receiving it back I had noticed that the bridge saddles weren't "nice and straight" anymore, so I scoffed at the ignorance of the shop and levelled out those things straight away! haha ! I was an idiot I tell you! just typing this makes me cringe!

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9 minutes ago, Zesty F said:


Yes.. this reminds me of when I too was at that particular stage, in fact I remember my very first starter pack guitar, I once took it into the shop for a setup and upon receiving it back I had noticed that the bridge saddles weren't "nice and straight" anymore, so I scoffed at the ignorance of the shop and levelled out those things straight away! haha ! I was an idiot I tell you! just typing this makes me cringe!

Yes.. But I had already been playing for like twenty years before I joined the forum [blush].. I was just lucky my guitar (cos I only had one for years) was set up properly  🙂 

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You know maybe I spoke too soon, but here's the deal, how many degrees do neck angles vary? not that many really at least on most current spec Gibson's, therefore if a Les Paul has a neck angle of 4 degrees and the pickup ring angle is 3 that's only 1 degree angle in which case stuff it just break axis and curve that thing sideways to fit, it really is not at all noticeable and for mass production factories it just doesn't matter.


If I want there are 3D printing companies but that's just me, maybe Gibson shouldn't do this after all and in fact they do things fair enough, that is my summary for those observing, it's such a small and personal aspect that it's basically in the realm of guitar setup.

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13 hours ago, Zesty F said:

You know maybe I spoke too soon, but here's the deal, how many degrees do neck angles vary? not that many really at least on most current spec Gibson's, therefore if a Les Paul has a neck angle of 4 degrees and the pickup ring angle is 3 that's only 1 degree angle in which case stuff it just break axis and curve that thing sideways to fit, it really is not at all noticeable and for mass production factories it just doesn't matter.


If I want there are 3D printing companies but that's just me, maybe Gibson shouldn't do this after all and in fact they do things fair enough, that is my summary for those observing, it's such a small and personal aspect that it's basically in the realm of guitar setup.

Yes they do vary slightly..  The neck tenon is one thing they still fit by hand so each one is just ever so slightly different...  Its why each guitar feels slightly different to play..  That sort of thing and the final neck shape are all done by hand still (well the final sanding anyway).

Check this vids at 12:00 in  

 

Edited by Rabs
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35 minutes ago, Rabs said:

Yes they do vary slightly..  The neck tenon is one thing the still fit by hand so each on is just ever so slightly different...  Its why each guitar feels slightly different to play..  That sort of thing and the final neck shape are all done by hand still (well the final sanding anyway).

Check this vids at 12:00 in


Very cool vid to see the neck application, have not seen a factory video in such HD before, those bursts with the red mahogany back and sides sure are beautiful! especially with those mirror chrome buckers!

 

39 minutes ago, Big Bill said:

This was posted in jest right? 🤪


 

rrrt.png

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I thought one of my 339 pickup rings was completely wrong. I was a terrible fit from new.

On closer inspection, it had been fitted backwards. This was on a guitar that was beautifully finished and set up straight from Memphis (I know because it was unboxed in my presence). 

Those pesky details...

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5 hours ago, Rabs said:

Yes they do vary slightly..  The neck tenon is one thing the still fit by hand so each on is just ever so slightly different...  Its why each guitar feels slightly different to play..  That sort of thing and the final neck shape are all done by hand still (well the final sanding anyway).

Check this vids at 12:00 in  

 

I must say that I see no difference here to a Chinese or Korean guitar maker. The speed that they turn them out. There's no finesse at all. The only luthier work I saw was the neck fitting and the end finishing job. But the way the files were so quickly run over the bridge and nut show that it's mass production and not a careful process. It's like they haven't got time to actually look at the guitar. On all the Les Paul's I've seen and bought in the past few years, the problems have been on the finishing.  Poor neck work.  I feel they've a long way to go to change the public's view of them. 

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Zesty I have a 2016 Firebird that the neck pickup is inline with the body while the strings are on a completely different angle / plane.  I saw a 2019 Firebird at my local store and they have added pickup rings that do align the pickups with the angle of the strings. I'd like to find some of them. I'd like to have that neck pickup aligned correctly.

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Pickup rings with the wrong angle are a known isssue that's never been addressed, period.  Gibson hasn't cared that their pickup rings don't fit all the different top shapes in their line for years and years and years.  They use one type of pickup ring and that's it.  Pickups don't sit flat on a $5,000 guitar?  Who cares, get used to it.

Almost every ES guitar has pickup rings with the wrong angle.  They don't care, period.  People have been pointing that out for years.  How much does it cost to make a flat pickup ring?  Too much.  Almost all ES guitars need a flat pickup ring for the neck pickup.  ES-339 owners often turned the neck pickup ring around backwards, because the backwards slope fit the top of the guitar better.  I just always made flat pickup rings for my ES's.

I'll make Gibson some flat pickup rings for $20.00 apiece.  Or they can have their regular guys do it for $1.00.

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Got to agree with BadBlues.  Here is a shot of my L5 (about $10K MSRP) with the ring turned around backwards from the way it came from the factory.  The pickup still doesn't sit parallel to the strings, but it certainly is a lot closer than it was before.

14oOsu7.jpg

And here is a CS336 that I turned the ring around on - it is pretty close to parallel now, but sure wasn't when I got it.

ZSkRV3q.jpg

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Is there conclusive evidence that having the pickups parallel with the strings makes it sound better?

I have no idea, myself. [confused]

 

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23 minutes ago, brad1 said:

Is there conclusive evidence that having the pickups parallel with the strings makes it sound better?

I have no idea, myself. [confused]

 

There probably isn't.  Those of us that have attempted to make them parallel think they sound a little better.  For me the main thing is adjusting the pickup height.  When the pickup is on such an angle where do you measure the height from - just at the pole pieces?  It is not a very accurate science when there can be over an 1/8th of inch difference from one end of the pickup to the other.

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1 minute ago, Twang Gang said:

There probably isn't.  Those of us that have attempted to make them parallel think they sound a little better.  For me the main thing is adjusting the pickup height.  When the pickup is on such an angle where do you measure the height from - just at the pole pieces?  It is not a very accurate science when there can be over an 1/8th of inch difference from one end of the pickup to the other.

Yes this is the thing. I cant see how it makes much difference apart from people with OCD who cant stand that they aren't parallel  🙂 (we all suffer from that somewhat)..  Its just the pole pieces that count.. You don't need the whole pickup to be parallel...

You also don't want them too close to the strings anyway or they will pull at the strings too much.

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16 minutes ago, Twang Gang said:

There probably isn't.  Those of us that have attempted to make them parallel think they sound a little better.  For me the main thing is adjusting the pickup height.  When the pickup is on such an angle where do you measure the height from - just at the pole pieces?  It is not a very accurate science when there can be over an 1/8th of inch difference from one end of the pickup to the other.

Me too. I have spent time adjusting the pickup's (the poles) proximity to the string many times.  But I have never spent  a second on worrying about how parallel it was.

But that's me.

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I can't believe I'm seeing people disagreeing on the pickup rings being wrong. If you pay a lot of money for what is an expensive instrument, the aesthetics  should be pleasing to the eye. So, if a pick ring is askew it's wrong. I bought a 2018 Classic with P90's and the neck pickup is at an angle, Gibson said it was within spec.  Tell me this is right? 

20180701_103221.jpg

Edited by LarryUK
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What Twang Gang said.  Pickups are supposed to sit flat.  ES owners have dealt with this for ages.  You guys can have yours tilted.  I'll make mine flat.  Not complicated.

It's just the right way to make something.  If you don't make it right, then, next thing you know, you start making excuses.

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