The great string spacing illusion?

[stevegarside]

Hi all

I don't know if anyone has had the same experience of guitars that feel more 'roomy' at the picking end than some of your others - only for you to find their is no difference in string spacing in practice? Is the feeling of room just an illusion brought about by neck width and radius?

For example, I have a Martin OM which in theory is a tight 2 1/4 at the bridge, and it feels tight compared to my Gibson j-185. I don't like picking with it and it's consequently a strummer. However, when I measured it at the actual playing part of the guitar - for me at the middle of the sound hole on both guitars - it's exactly the same as the Gibson.  The Gibson neck is chunkier so that clearly must be a factor in shaping the hand, and creating an illusion of space as it positions the fingers more accurately.  Plus, the strings on the Gibson get wider closer to the bridge, giving the appearance of space. But no-one really plays there. Strange. 

[fortyearspickn]

I'm in the 'illusion' camp, though most are not.  I just don't think I can feel the difference. If the difference at the nut is as much as 1/4 inch and you divide that by 6 strings - I don't feel the space between any two strings - either  at the first fret or up at the other end at the sound hole - is great enough that I'd notice.  It's less than the thickness of the thinnest pick I have!  I feel like I should be able to tell the difference, but after 2 or 3 minutes,  I do not.   I think clearance from the fretboard is more noticeable, and to me, important.   Having said that - I do sense a big difference when picking up a classical guitar. But, part of that is, to me, the zero radius fretboard. 

[rct]

Illusion.  A guitar player just doesn't notice a 16th of an inch after about the second chorus of the song he or she picked up that guitar for.

If you spend your time studying your guitars and the teeny differences between them all you will notice.  Play it and use it, you won't.

Minutiae kills.

rct

[Twang Gang]

For me it's a case of "too much information".  For years and years I never knew or paid any attention to the string spacing or width of the nut.  I would just play a guitar and it either felt comfortable or it didn't.  Same with fingerboard radius.  Now manufacturer's are almost always telling you the nut width and bridge spacing in their specs and many even offer options to have a wider or narrower nut/string space on the same model guitar.  I take it that wider string spacing at the bridge is supposed to make a more friendly guitar for fingerpicking, but since I almost never fingerpick (a skill lost over the years) it is pretty irrelevant to me.

One of my early guitars that I started learning on was a classical, I still have it, and the nut is 2 inches wide.  No other guitar I have owned has ever been that wide, but since I learned on it I tend to feel more comfortable playing a slightly wider nut.  A couple of my guitars have 1 11/16th nut width, and one has 1 3/4 nut width.  The wider one feels easier to play to me, but I don't think the 1/16 inch really makes any difference but rather the back of the neck profile.  The narrower ones are V shaped necks, the wider one is rounded or C shaped.

So for me the neck profile seems way more important than string spacing.  Different strokes for different folks I guess.

[zombywoof]

I agree that when you are talking about a 1/16" or so difference in string spread at the bridge it is not going to have a major impact on right hand feel.  But my right hand has always felt a difference between say my 1942 J50 and 1932 L1.  So to see if this was just a Fig Newton of my imagination I went and quickly measured the string spacing at the center of the soundhole of both guitars. While granted I grabbed a cheap caliper which was handy, the string spacing at the J45 bridge is a skimpy just a bit over  2 2/16". That of the  L1  is 2 3/8".  Measuring at the center  the soundhole of the L1 the strings are around 1/4" wider spaced than those on the J45.    For  grins I measured my Fairbanks Roy Smeck which also has a string spacing of 2 3/8" at the bridge.  Also a 1/4" difference.   

Edited March 30, 2021 by zombywoof

[ksdaddy]

I owned a Gretsch Country Club for years. One thing I really didn't like was the string spacing at the bridge. I measured it and it indeed was significantly more narrow than other guitars. There just flat was not enough room for my sausages.

I will agree with RCT that most of the time a little difference won't matter and we will adjust quickly....otherwise we'd never go from a Tele to an LP and back. But when it reaches a certain point, the difference will be enough to make you put the guitar down.

 

[kharma44]

I know it's a bit of an old thread, but I felt compelled to reply. It "can" make a significant difference. For instance, I play fingerstyle, almost never with a pick. But I don't grow my nails and I have somewhat bulky pulpy fingertips. So when I strike a string I have to dig deeper in between strings since I don't use the nail/fingertip  edge to strike the string. Since my fingers are pulpy, as I dig in, I risk slightly touching the adjacent strings and provoke either muffling or nail-scratch of the strings, thus making the playing less clean.

In such a context, fractions of inches, although apparently frivolous differences, can make a difference between slightly touching an adjacent string or not. When I play tighter string spacing bridge I certainly adapt after a few minutes but the playing is a little less enjoyable and the resulting sound somewhat less clean.

In conjunction with string spacing, neck and bridge radiuses also affect the perception of space. A rounder radius makes adjacent strings slightly further away from each other on the vertical plane, making the need to dig in the finger a little less, thus making the perceived string spacing a little wider.

My 000-15sm with it's 2 1/4 spacing is a joy to play and is much easier for the right hand than my OM-21 witch feels cramped at 2 5/32. So that's only a 3/32 inch difference over the 6 strings.

On the other hand, my J-45 although not as comfy as my 000-15sm feels somewhat easier to play than my OM-21 since the radius is rounder than on the Martin but with identical 2 5/32 spacing. 

Also, the J45 being thuddier with its shorter decay is more forgiving to muting of strings as the phrasing of notes already makes each note stand out by itself versus the Martin.

So... long answer to simply say that for some it makes a considerable difference. To the point where I consider selling my OM-21 to buy another one with a 2 1/4 spacing.

Edited September 23, 2023 by kharma44

[BluesKing777]

Old thread but same old.....

I play 100% fingerpicking and love 1 3/4” nut with V neck and 2 3/8” bridge spacing.......and players like me could tend to think the acoustic world is run and  overrun by strummers!😁

My preferred specs are thin on the ground. They are out there but........

Then around 2014, Wahoo! Bill Collings brought out the Waterloo WL-14s with just the preferred spec!

Otherwise, can’t think of any new ‘standard’ acoustics to suit. I am keen to play the new Gibson 1932 L-00 Murphy Lab, hoping they give it some room!

I know a solution to save fingerpickers their hard earned........put a big red label on each acoustic - FINGERPICKER and the STRUMMER. (Unlikely to happen as they may miss out on a sale).

 

BluesKing777.

 

 

Edited September 24, 2023 by BluesKing777

[Murph]

I adjust almost immediately to different spacings. I also play mandolin. And square necks. And round necks. And bass. And a little banjo.

When I was younger, I could adjust to different sized women quickly as well...

[fortyearspickn]

Since we're re-hashing.... that TOTAL width spacing at the nut of a max of 1/4''  translates to less than the thickness of a medium  pick between each of the strings.  The nuances, for me, are about the same as whether I use a salad fork or a desert fork.    5 String banjo, as noted by Murf,  takes about a minute to adjust to from guitar  = BOTH fretting hand AND the addition of 3 finger picks.   But, full disclosure,  I have more practice at eating than picking.  SANDwiches don't require a fork, either 

[kidblast]

it doesn't usually bug me too much either way,, I tend to adapt,  but maybe it's just that they are all "close"

so I don't really pay much attention to nut spacing on the guitars I have at the house

The neck profile -- yea,,  that's a big issue for me.   Radius,  contour, fret height are all make or break details for me getting along with a guitar

Edited September 25, 2023 by kidblast

[Murph]

On 9/25/2023 at 6:45 AM, Murph said:

When I was younger, I could adjust to different sized women quickly as well...

 

I'm kind of disappointed that you guys missed this.

[thegreatgumbino]

31 minutes ago, Murph said:

 

I'm kind of disappointed that you guys missed this.

I’m reading this thread for the first time and laughed out loud when I saw it.  Good one, Murph!

[fortyearspickn]

I was waiting on Sgt. Pepper to elevate the discussion further. 

[Murph]

11 minutes ago, fortyearspickn said:

I was waiting on Sgt. Pepper to elevate the discussion further. 

And yet, that has never happened.

Ever.

In history...

[MissouriPicker]

Like most, I just adjust to the spacing.  I prefer 1.75-1.68.  However the narrower spacing (for example, LUNA GUITARS) has made me be more precise when I play, instead of being lazy and sloppy.

[Sgt. Pepper]

On 9/30/2023 at 8:45 AM, fortyearspickn said:

I was waiting on Sgt. Pepper to elevate the discussion further. 

I have no clue what my string spacing is on both my 000's. Never cared when I had Dreads either or electrics.

I suppose 40 wants me to post something nutty or political to go off topic. Not falling for it.

[fortyearspickn]

Next you'll be claiming you like  "What strings do you use?"  threads and are saving up for a  Pelham Blue J45.

What have you done with the real  Sgt. Pepper ?        How about a gratuitous comment about  "G Strings" !!???

[Sgt. Pepper]

15 minutes ago, fortyearspickn said:

Next you'll be claiming you like  "What strings do you use?"  threads and are saving up for a  Pelham Blue J45.

What have you done with the real  Sgt. Pepper ?        How about a gratuitous comment about  "G Strings" !!???

I use D'ad XS's 11 - 52. The ones in the white pack. So I'm probably a racist. 

I hate blue guitars. 

Not interested in a Workhorse.

I do like a G sting. Although the G string you are hinting  at, I call Butt-floss. 

[olie]

7 hours ago, Sgt. Pepper said:

I use D'ad XS's 11 - 52. The ones in the white pack. So I'm probably a racist. 

I hate blue guitars. 

Not interested in a Workhorse.

I do like a G sting. Although the G string you are hinting  at, I call Butt-floss. 

We have now resumed regularly scheduled programming.

[Sgt. Pepper]

14 hours ago, olie said:

We have now resumed regularly scheduled programming.

We are, but I was asked those questions, so I answered them. 

[olie]

11 hours ago, Sgt. Pepper said:

We are, but I was asked those questions, so I answered them. 

Thank God for that.

[MissouriPicker]

On 10/4/2023 at 8:15 AM, Sgt. Pepper said:

I use D'ad XS's 11 - 52. The ones in the white pack. So I'm probably a racist. 

I hate blue guitars. 

Not interested in a Workhorse.

I do like a G sting. Although the G string you are hinting  at, I call Butt-floss. 

“Tell me what you want!,” he said as he flipped her G string with finger.

‘She moaned and said, “I want my guitar back.”

[Murph]

8 hours ago, MissouriPicker said:

‘She moaned and said, “I want my guitar back.”

You're a nut, Larry...