Martin Dropping "Sitka" From Literature. Will Just Say "Spruce"...

[Murph]

Along with the ebony problems, Martin seems to be having problems getting Sitka Spruce.

Maury's Blog - Maury's Music (maurysmusic.com)

"Martin will be changing all references on their website and their product literature from "Sitka Spruce" to “Spruce”.

I don't know much about Lutz Spruce, some like it, some don't.

I wonder if Sitka topped guitars will drift up in value?

[Murph]

Here's the article about streaky ebony.

Maury's Blog - Maury's Music (maurysmusic.com)

[fortyearspickn]

10 minutes ago, Murph said:

Here's the article about streaky ebony.

Maury's Blog - Maury's Music (maurysmusic.com)

Interesting comment to article:   "Of the last 10 Martin guitars I bought this year, for the last 4 i searched out variegated ebony."   Sounds like he's not found The Hoy Grail yet !   One wonders how much competition for Grade A  wood, be it Sitka, Adirondack,  Koa, Ebony, Rosewood or Ebony, etc.   comes from makers in China, Japan, Mexico, etc.    Are US makers like Taylor and now Martin going to 'alternative woods'  as good stewards - while the rest of the world does not - widening the 'competition gap' ?   Labor costs are already  a big difference.  Tonewood would be as big.

[cunningham26]

3 minutes ago, fortyearspickn said:

  Are US makers like Taylor and now Martin going to 'alternative woods'  as good stewards - while the rest of the world does not - widening the 'competition gap' ?   Labor costs are already  a big difference.  Tonewood would be as big.

Probably if you're bought into the idea that the folks at gibson/martin are thoughtful craftspeople, you're bought in that their material selection would be within that scope. conversely if you're bought into the idea that overseas factories are just pumping out a product, you might not defect simply because one is claiming to use a familiar material. IMO if china could grow something in a lab in a week that they could slap a spruce label onto, however dubious the claim, they wouldn't think twice about it. If martin made the claim that an alternate tonewood was up the their standard, i'd hope for the best and play it in person.

[jvi]

disease and over harvesting are wiping out the big ones. humans strike again...

[fortyearspickn]

7 minutes ago, cunningham26 said:

Probably if you're bought into the idea that the folks at gibson/martin are thoughtful craftspeople, you're bought in that their material selection would be within that scope. conversely if you're bought into the idea that overseas factories are just pumping out a product, you might not defect simply because one is claiming to use a familiar material. IMO if china could grow something in a lab in a week that they could slap a spruce label onto, however dubious the claim, they wouldn't think twice about it. If martin made the claim that an alternate tonewood was up the their standard, i'd hope for the best and play it in person.

Yep.   Good insight.  

[fortyearspickn]

16 minutes ago, jvi said:

disease and over harvesting are wiping out the big ones. humans strike again...

"He fixed up the planet  as best as He could  ....  and then in come the people and gum it up good."   (Paint Your Wagon/"The First Thing You Know"

[Murph]

54 minutes ago, jvi said:

 humans strike again...

 

My favorite people are humans...

[Sgt. Pepper]

I saw a new D-28 in G C yesterday, and the fretboard did not look like any of mine that had ebony boards. Almost every Martin I owed except for D-15's came with ebony. It had brown streaks in it. It looked cool, but it was not that dark black tight grain stuff. Maybe it was Madagascar ebony?

[Sgt. Pepper]

2 hours ago, Murph said:

I wonder if Sitka topped guitars will drift up in value?

They are drifting up in price regardless of the top.

[G Man]

I don't see this as that big of a deal. Their were many years when Martin used any of several different spruce varieties, (Sitka, German, Englemann, etc) and no one was the wiser.  I also understand that Lutz spruce is a cross of Sitka and White spruce from an area along the pacific NW coast where the two species interact, so its not so much of a stretch to use Lutz and most folks will probably have a hard time telling the difference.  And lastly, many small builders offer Lutz as an up charge.  

[Murph]

13 minutes ago, Sgt. Pepper said:

I saw a new D-28 in G C yesterday, and the fretboard did not look like any of mine that had ebony boards. It had brown streaks in it. 

That was once considered a lower grade of ebony, but it's accepted now. It's just the way it is.

Check this link.

Maury's Blog - Maury's Music (maurysmusic.com)

Actually, my 79 SG has streaks in the ebony board.

[Tim Tim]

6 hours ago, Murph said:

Along with the ebony problems, Martin seems to be having problems getting Sitka Spruce.

Maury's Blog - Maury's Music (maurysmusic.com)

"Martin will be changing all references on their website and their product literature from "Sitka Spruce" to “Spruce”.

I don't know much about Lutz Spruce, some like it, some don't.

I wonder if Sitka topped guitars will drift up in value?

These aren’t “Martin” problems getting tone woods.  This is a worldwide problem.  This has been a Taylor problem and a Martin problem and an Eastman problem and soon to be a Gibson problem.  Taylor and martin have been using it for years, and martin just stopped the practice of dying the streaked pieces.  The bigger factories are the first to feel the effects of deforestation since they use larger quantities of rare (quality) woods.  
 

reportedly, lutz spruce has the potential to be stiffer than, and just as light as, Sitka, which may push it more in the direction of European or Adirondack spruce.  For some, this surprise may turn out to be a pleasant upgrade.  I’m eager to play one, personally.  

Edited November 3, 2022 by Tim Tim

[gearbasher]

In the near future, we'll all be playing something like this:

https://www.rainsong.com/product-page/dr-black-ice-n1-neck-profile

[rct]

They can always blame the government and finally achieve bankruptcy.  

rct

[MorrisrownSal]

I’ve calmed down a bit from prior years, where I got worked up on a lot of specs and tonewoods. I custom ordered a specific Martin at one point with exact specs. What was I thinking? I don’t own it now…

 

Sure I have some preferences- for example I like mahogany a crap ton.

Now I am pretty open minded. I have played Taylors and thought the sounded great… like the AD17. And I really dig a $500 dread I bought from Eastman with a cedar top. I like that guitar more than their pricey models, and way more than the Gibsons I played last weekend.

And my J45-TV is still amazing to me, and I’m glad I own it.

Sitka vs Alpine vs Adi vs Lutz vs Ebony vs Eucalyptus vs Whatever…. I play it, and I know if I like the sound.

[E-minor7]

It's fair to guess the acoustic guitar world is goin' to see a lot of changes in the years to come. We know it already begun between 1 and 2 decades ago. New types of woods, walnut, koa burbinga, mystic rosewood, sapele plus richlite and other materials it's pretty hard to try to remember. . 

Most people will probably get used to and accept this, but then there'll be this little society of feinschmeckers, who'll stick to the vintage values and almost be religious about it. Like we know from the Hi-Fi-circles etc. .

I will be found among these nerds - so will many of you.                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                   We will be sitting here and there discussing our woods and leather straps and bone saddles and horn pins and fossilized ivory nuts and resin-percent till the sun goes down.                                              Some daredevil will even mention a that he/she played a genuine tortoise pick on a genuine tortoise pick-guard guitar the other day, , , and found it astounding. 

All okay - as long as we stay open enough to let the new inventions (deliberately don't say products) amaze and surprise us.                                                                                                                                                                                                                               Because make no mistake - a lot lot these new creatures will be double-damn good. And they will keep comin'. . .

 

[Sevendaymelee]

Glad I made my purchases when I did. Also glad that there are millions of used Martins for sale. I'm not paying that kind of money for mystery neck wood and mystery sound boards, and I don't want my ebony to look like a bottle or peroxide threw up on it. I want to know what I am getting before making a purchase, and I want solid black ebony, even if it has to be dyed. If Martin will no longer do and supply the above, it's on to the used market for their guitars, permanently. 

[Murph]

9 hours ago, E-minor7 said:

All okay - as long as we stay open enough to let the new inventions (deliberately don't say products) amaze and surprise us.                                                                                                                                                                                                                             Because make no mistake - a lot lot these new creatures will be double-damn good. And they will keep comin'. . .

 

 

I'm a big fan of walnut.

The J-15 gets great reviews almost everywhere,  and mine is spectacular.

American sourced and not "endangered".

[Murph]

12 hours ago, Salfromchatham said:

Now I am pretty open minded. I have played Taylors and thought the sounded great… like the AD17. And I really dig a $500 dread I bought from Eastman with a cedar top. 

Before I got my J-45 (2003) I played a small bodied, cedar topped Taylor and nearly bought it.

I don't know their size/name system, it wasn't small like a parlor, but it was a bit smaller than my J-45.

For some reason, it was just a killer little guitar. Never played another cedar guitar, don't know why, that thing was sweet.

[RBSinTo]

On 11/3/2022 at 10:55 AM, Sgt. Pepper said:

I saw a new D-28 in G C yesterday, and the fretboard did not look like any of mine that had ebony boards. Almost every Martin I owed except for D-15's came with ebony. It had brown streaks in it. It looked cool, but it was not that dark black tight grain stuff. Maybe it was Madagascar ebony?

Chief,

I recently played a new D-18 at a very fine, local music store, and noticed a lighter brown streak along the treble side of the ebony fretboard, running about two or three frets from the nut. While this is something I've never seen before on any new guitar, it certainly didn't affect the sound, which was wonderful.

I suppose that in some way, these discussions about the quality of the different woods being substituted for now scarce materials are moot anyway, because as we rush to turn this planet into a toilet, there will probably come a day in the not so distant future, when all new musical instruments, of necessity, will be made from carbon fibre.

RBSinTo

 

Edited November 4, 2022 by RBSinTo

[Sgt. Pepper]

13 hours ago, rct said:

They can always blame the government and finally achieve bankruptcy.  

rct

Now that is tooooooooo funny. 

[Sgt. Pepper]

19 hours ago, Salfromchatham said:

I’ve calmed down a bit from prior years, where I got worked up on a lot of specs and tonewoods. I custom ordered a specific Martin at one point with exact specs. What was I thinking? I don’t own it now…

 

Sure I have some preferences- for example I like mahogany a crap ton.

Now I am pretty open minded. I have played Taylors and thought the sounded great… like the AD17. And I really dig a $500 dread I bought from Eastman with a cedar top. I like that guitar more than their pricey models, and way more than the Gibsons I played last weekend.

And my J45-TV is still amazing to me, and I’m glad I own it.

Sitka vs Alpine vs Adi vs Lutz vs Ebony vs Eucalyptus vs Whatever…. I play it, and I know if I like the sound.

A good sounding guitar is a good sounding guitar. The deal breaker for me is if its not made it 'Merica, I will play it and try it out, but I will never own it. I've owned one foreign guitar in my lifetime. I was 17 at the time and my first acoustic was an Ovation, and I am not sure where it was made, but probably not the USA.  

Edited November 4, 2022 by Sgt. Pepper

[Sgt. Pepper]

27 minutes ago, RBSinTo said:

Chief,

I recently played a new D-18 at a very fine, local music store, and noticed a lighter brown streak along the treble side of the ebony fretboard, running about two or three frets from the nut. While this is something I've never seen before on any new guitar, it certainly didn't affect the sound, which was wonderful.

I suppose that in some way, these discussions about the quality of the different woods being substituted for now scarce materials are moot anyway, because as we rush to turn this planet into a toilet, there will probably come a day in the not so distant future, when all new musical instruments will be made from carbon fibre.

RBSinTo

 

D-18's do not suck. I've had two of them and both were top shelf. 

Edited November 4, 2022 by Sgt. Pepper

[fortyearspickn]

Chief  - obviously you've never worked in Marketing -   "This guitar does not suck."   is not selling the sizzle or the steak !   Though, I think,  when you get to the cheap-os,  Rouge, Mitchell, Ibanez,   it might be a good Disclaimer to put on the hang tag.