What is it?

[patmAcdonald]

I have an old Gibson, supposedly a J-45 ADJ (it says so inside the body) but it looks more like a J-50, judging by the bridge and the pick guard. The weird thing about it is, the serial number is 053227. I've never seen or heard of a Gibson with a 6-digit serial number starting with "0" (zero).   

[jedzep]

Not ADJ anyway, but probably was.  Someone put an ebony belly down bridge on.  Loss of originality, but I hate the adj saddle contraptions anyway.  Guard is wrong for either J, so also replaced.  Tuners look right.  Number says '67?  Guys here know better. 

If it sounds and plays good...

https://loviesguitars.com/gibson-serial-number-identification-dating/

Edited May 9, 2023 by jedzep

[jedzep]

Yours could very well have been a J45 stripped to blond.   Here's a GC '67 J50.
https://www.guitarcenter.com/Used/Gibson/Vintage-1967-J-50-Acoustic-Guitar.gc?cntry=us&source=4WWRWXGP

[northcntryblues]

That's a cool-*** guitar right there.  Mojo and history.  👍

[zombywoof]

FON and Serial numbers are repeated on sites all over the internet.  Sure beats the days though when the best we could do was to narrow a build period down by features.  As to whether it is a J50 or J45 which has lost its finish, while I am not an expert on Gibsons built this late in the game I believe both models shared the same rosette and top binding.  But as Gibson applied the finish with the neck, fingerboard, pickguard and such attached you might be able to find some overspray along say the edge of the fingerboard extension or possibly even inside the guitar.  While it is not always the case, I have seen instruments revealed as having been subjected to a refinish by finding some remnants of the burst.  

Edited May 9, 2023 by zombywoof

[ksdaddy]

Yep, it could be cherry sunburst that just washed completely out.  Cherry SB is common on 67s, as is the skinny neck (obvious in the photo). Minor note just to reinforce 1967 as a good guess, the tuners say Kluson Deluxe. In 1969 the tuners would be identical but would say Gibson Deluxe. 

[bayoubengal1954]

I agree that this is probably a ‘67 that someone replaced out the adjustable bridge with a “traditional” bridge. Also as has been stated, the original Pickguard has been replaced (should be the bat wing). Hard to tell if it is a stripped J-45 or a J-50. 

I’ll bet it sounds great!

Also as an aside to the OP, I am a fan of your work. 

[Murph]

Very cool guitar.

Welcome to the forum.

[ksdaddy]

I’m leaning towards an older refinish on the top now. I can’t imagine there NOT being a tan line where the belly up bridge was removed. Unless it originally had a plastic bridge like an LG0 (and similar)? I think I’ve seen J45s with plastic bridges. If it did originally have one, then there wouldn’t have been any reason to mask off the area under the bridge, or remove it, whichever method they would have used in that time period. 

[jedzep]

There would also be a pickguard shadow.  I've sanded and refinished hopeless tops before, and that was always the toughest to conceal.

[fortyearspickn]

KSD,  I'm pretty sure many models in addition to the LGO, LG1 and LG2 in the 60s had those hollow plastic bridges and that many were replaced. 

[patmAcdonald]

On 5/10/2023 at 11:28 AM, Little Feat said:

Are you the real Pat Mac from Timbuk 3?

 

yes 🙂

[patmAcdonald]

On 5/10/2023 at 11:28 AM, Little Feat said:

Are you the real Pat Mac from Timbuk 3?

 

i am 🙂

[bayoubengal1954]

4 minutes ago, patmAcdonald said:

i am 🙂

Thought so. 😉 Sorry to hijack this thread, but I tried to send you an email to buy “In The Red Room”but I’m not sure if it was the correct email. 

Feel free to write me at 

cooptig@gmail.com

 

if there are any CD copies left to purchase. 
 

Now please carry on regarding the guitar in question.

😀

 

 

[patmAcdonald]

On 5/10/2023 at 2:30 AM, bayoubengal1954 said:

I agree that this is probably a ‘67 that someone replaced out the adjustable bridge with a “traditional” bridge. Also as has been stated, the original Pickguard has been replaced (should be the bat wing). Hard to tell if it is a stripped J-45 or a J-50. 

I’ll bet it sounds great!

Also as an aside to the OP, I am a fan of your work. 

Thanks! 🙂  Yeah the bridge was definitely replaced, but the pickguard?  I dunno.. What throws me is the serial number (six digits starting with zero) . Apparently some electrics in '59 were numbered that way, but no acoustics, as far as i can find in any internet search. I was I'm wondering if it was an inside job at the factiory - one of the Gibson builders experimenting(?)   

[patmAcdonald]

7 minutes ago, bayoubengal1954 said:

Thought so. 😉 Sorry to hijack this thread, but I tried to send you an email to buy “In The Red Room”but I’m not sure if it was the correct email. 

Feel free to write me at 

cooptig@gmail.com

 

if there are any CD copies left to purchase. 
 

Now please carry on regarding the guitar in question.

😀

 

 

Thanks again! I'll send you an email 🙂

[j45nick]

1 hour ago, patmAcdonald said:

Thanks! 🙂  Yeah the bridge was definitely replaced, but the pickguard?  I dunno.. What throws me is the serial number (six digits starting with zero) . Apparently some electrics in '59 were numbered that way, but no acoustics, as far as i can find in any internet search. I was I'm wondering if it was an inside job at the factiory - one of the Gibson builders experimenting(?)   

The pickguard is definitely not original. No way, no how.  A 1967 J-45 would have had a batwing pickguard. Some later square-body Js used a Martin-style pickguard similar in shape to the one on your guitar, but yours isn't even positioned properly. It is rotated out at the bottom, maybe to clear the bridge.

A '67 J-45 would almost certainly have had a cherryburst top finish, and typically,--but not always--dark cherry stain on the back and sides,  rather than the dark walnut that we normally associate with the J-45.

The red dye Gibson used to stain guitars in the period was very stable, and often completely faded away, leaving what looks like a blond finish. Think of Donovan's J-45.

Look inside the soundhole  at the underside of the top immediately around the soundhole, using a small mirror and a light. It is fairly common for there to be overspray that might indicate the original top color.

[zombywoof]

2 hours ago, patmAcdonald said:

Thanks! 🙂  Yeah the bridge was definitely replaced, but the pickguard?  I dunno.. What throws me is the serial number (six digits starting with zero) . Apparently some electrics in '59 were numbered that way, but no acoustics, as far as i can find in any internet search. I was I'm wondering if it was an inside job at the factiory - one of the Gibson builders experimenting(?)   

Again, I am confused as to what the mystery is. I quickly found two sites stating that Gibson acoustics with a six digit seral number starting with an "0" date to 1967. This is the same info which appears in the "Gibson's Fabulous Flat-top Guitars" book. 

The other thing is that in 1967 Gibson produced more J45s and J50s than in any other year that decade with around three times as many going out the door as they had shipped at the beginning of the 1960s.  So, rather than an "inside job" it quite simply may have been a mistake such as a wrong model stamp which was not caught.  

[E-minor7]

Hi - a very authentic, yet not original old slope shouldered Gibson.                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                   Most have been said already and the guitar seems to be a 1967 J-50 with a few significant modifications. The kool truss rod cover fx.                                                                              I believe the bridge was changed at some point, probably just to get rid of the original up-belly adjustable rosewood original.                                                                                                                                                                                                                                   (don't think Kalamazoo made plastic bridge J-45/50s as late as 1967).

Neither do I think the top is a faded cherry - they look different and often has small traces of orange here and there. Don't know why people suggest it should be a faded 45.

Here are a couple of faded cherry 45s. That's how  they typically look. Notice the plastic bridge on the one closest to the cam -                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    it's a 1963, which was the big year for adjustable saddles in plast bs. 

The second still clearly ringing a cherry-echoe, is from 1962.

                                                                                                                                           They both sound terrific.

[62burst]

19 hours ago, E-minor7 said:

Here are a couple of faded cherry 45s.

Hard to resist a nicely faded iced tea burst. One can almost hear them.

[Boyd]

Just for reference, this is what my 1965 J-50 ADJ looks like. I don't think  it could be confused with a faded J-45. It has the original (thick) pickguard, bridge and rosewood saddle.

Edited May 14, 2023 by Boyd

[zombywoof]

One of the things I would look to see is if whomever rolled the bridge went ahead and replaced the oversized laminate bridge plate needed to support those heavy ADJ saddle bridge with a traditional size maple plate.  When it comes to bridge pate size matters.

Edited May 14, 2023 by zombywoof

[Dr. Blues]

It looks like a 1970-1971 SJN Southern Jumbo Natural. Those early 70s models had that style if pick guard. No telling though. 

[J185cat]

The knowledge that all you guys have about these older guitars never ceases to amaze me. One of the reasons I love being on this site.

[ksdaddy]

1 hour ago, J185cat said:

The knowledge that all you guys have about these older guitars never ceases to amaze me. One of the reasons I love being on this site.

Oh, we make a lot of it up as we go along and nobody dares question us.