E-minor7 Posted June 13, 2023 Share Posted June 13, 2023 Think these 2 come very fine across in my cans, , , and would more than like to try maybe even own one. But something strikes me - do they sound like Hummingbirds at all ? Absolutely stunningly lookers too. Obviously from the same wave, , , but still - are they passing the original Bird-voice further. Are they in actual contact with the sourse. In doubt and seriously eager to know what you hear. . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
62burst Posted June 13, 2023 Share Posted June 13, 2023 Wonderful recordings. They certainly sound like they look. Love that short scale mahogany Square sound. But they also sound like the style that they're being played, the mic, the room, the guitar's setup. . . fingers, nails, or pic. And of course the skillful person who's playing. Good refresher course- thx for sharing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lars68 Posted June 14, 2023 Share Posted June 14, 2023 Wonderful, both as far as sound and look! To me they do sound like Birds should, but I can’t say that I have one specific benchmark tonal quality in mind to compare against. I believe guitar tone is a sum of a myriad of specification details and everything matters, but our ears cannot distinguish between the smallest detail when isolated. However, when all details are added up, it’s audible and what makes us able to distinguish one guitar from another. So if these guitars have the same specs as your benchmark guitar, they will be in the same family tree of tone, at least when comparing guitars of the same age. How could they not? Lars Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
E-minor7 Posted June 16, 2023 Author Share Posted June 16, 2023 Yes yes, I hear you, , , but still had this feeling the treasured and adored glaze was a bit under-represented. The nectar-factor kind of forgotten in the midst of all that other richness. Again a model it will be necessary to try live - though I'll probably stay where I am. Can't believe how good the 1963 SJ with almost new Pyramid Western Folk round core Ph. B. lights sounded today. Funny enough I tend to like my guitars better in the summer though the humidity is higher, which should make the wood more lazy. The hollow/cheap G-string prob is now behind us. Must be that the new bridge plate has broken in. A good weekend to U all Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
E-minor7 Posted June 16, 2023 Author Share Posted June 16, 2023 45 minutes ago, E-minor7 said: Yes yes, I hear you, , , but still had this feeling the treasured and adored glaze was a bit under-represented. The nectar-factor kind of forgotten in the midst of all that other richness. Probably wrong. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rbpicker Posted June 17, 2023 Share Posted June 17, 2023 The second video is stunning to me. Would love to own that guitar. rb Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Murph Posted June 17, 2023 Share Posted June 17, 2023 They keep getting better at digital recording. Someday they'll master it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zombywoof Posted June 17, 2023 Share Posted June 17, 2023 The last time I had a 1960s Hummingbird in the house was many years ago when folks would still on occasion drop one off in the hopes I would but it. And the sum total of my experience with Bozeman-made versions is noodling around with those either somebody I knew owned or played in music shops. Going solely on memory though, I divided the way they sounded into two broad categories - Old School and New School Gibson Tone. Thing is, I apparently did not feel any overwhelming desire to own either as none I played grabbed me and shook me around to the point I knew I had to make it mine. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MorrisrownSal Posted June 17, 2023 Share Posted June 17, 2023 The second video is all Bird to me, and yes a great video. You get glimpses of that in the first video… 35-50 seconds …. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AnneS Posted June 17, 2023 Share Posted June 17, 2023 I have played a handful of ‘birds— I couldn’t tell you which models/years, etc. And after listening to these clips—I must now confess that I’m not, I don’t think, a ‘bird person in the first place. Neither clip moves me—there’s a kind of harshness in there that doesn’t work for my ear. Upon rewatching them, and noting the lovely playing in both, I found myself wanting to hear those played on a J-45 or a Dove. My ear almost never registers “warm” when I hear a Hummingbird being picked. It’s a showy sound, but, for me, never an intimate one. I don’t want to lean in closer. Granted, I do recognize (and appreciate) the very distinct sound of a strummed ‘bird, but I don’t hear that in the first video. So maybe, Em7, you are onto something with your question. Maybe the sweetness (that even I hear on other recordings) is, as you suggest, missing. Interesting… Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TomPhx Posted June 17, 2023 Share Posted June 17, 2023 The one I am delighted to own came to me secondhand, from a guy in the city about an hour away. It does sound similar to the first recording, maybe with a little less bass. Could be I hear mine differently because I'm behind it, not in front of it's projecting sound. I don't know what a vintage Bird should sound like, only from some of the 60's-70's recordings, which were laid down with much different technology. I do know that my Bird always makes me smile with the musical sound it makes. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Twang Gang Posted June 17, 2023 Share Posted June 17, 2023 I have two Hummingbirds, neither of which is supposed to be a recreation of a 60s model, they are just modern Bozeman versions. One is maple body, the other is hog. Neither sounds like either of these videos. I would agree with Anne that these sound a little harsh, both of mine are more mellow. In the second video the player bends down right at the beginning and appears to turn on a knob on something, so who knows what sort of recording trickery is going on? Nice playing on both vids, but I'd have to hear the guitars in person to know what they really sound like. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
62burst Posted June 17, 2023 Share Posted June 17, 2023 8 hours ago, Murph said: They keep getting better at digital recording. Someday they'll master it. True. And putting tube preamps into the mics/signal chain is a step in that direction. 5 hours ago, Salfromchatham said: The second video is all Bird to me, and yes a great video. You get glimpses of that in the first video… 35-50 seconds …. There are some definite Bird-friendly chords/sounds in that section, for sure. 3 hours ago, AnneS said: Neither clip moves me—there’s a kind of harshness in there that doesn’t work for my ear. Upon rewatching them, and noting the lovely playing in both, I found myself wanting to hear those played on a J-45 or a Dove. My ear almost never registers “warm” when I hear a Hummingbird being picked. It’s a showy sound, but, for me, never an intimate one. I don’t want to lean in closer. Interesting… Ouch. But the truth can hurt. 1 hour ago, Twang Gang said: I have two Hummingbirds, neither of which is supposed to be a recreation of a 60s model, they are just modern Bozeman versions. One is maple body, the other is hog. Neither sounds like either of these videos. I would agree with Anne that these sound a little harsh, both of mine are more mellow. In the second video the player bends down right at the beginning and appears to turn on a knob on something, so who knows what sort of recording trickery is going on? Nice playing on both vids, but I'd have to hear the guitars in person to know what they really sound like. At least the player shows us that he is tuning the whole Bird down a half a step in vid #2. That might affect what RBpicker is hearing just a little bit. But we just don't get to hear enough of the maple Hummingbirds (such as the one that you're keeping) that are out there (hint, hint). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fortyearspickn Posted June 18, 2023 Share Posted June 18, 2023 Strings, picks, relief - can have a difference, though then won't make an H'Bird sound like a Taylor ! As far as strings - if theses are brand new - that would explain the 'harshness' to me. My H'bird seems louder than my SJ200 and J45Koa - but I think part of it is more subtle - it is more like it PROJECTS the sound further out of the sound hole directly - whilst the other two let it rumble around and mellow in there before sending it out. I'd never say one is 'better' than the other - only that their each different, and great. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Larsongs Posted June 18, 2023 Share Posted June 18, 2023 These Guitars sound great! But, remember, some of the Mics used to record them cost as much as the Guitars or more.. Then there’s the Pre-Amps, Interfaces & the magic of Pro Tools, Logic or whatever DAW & the Mixing Engr.. Beautifully done…. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
E-minor7 Posted June 21, 2023 Author Share Posted June 21, 2023 On 6/17/2023 at 3:43 PM, zombywoof said: - Old School and New School Gibson Tone. Absolutely 2 different sides of that same coin. To me value comes by counting them both. On 6/17/2023 at 4:13 PM, Salfromchatham said: The second video is all Bird to me, and yes a great video. You get glimpses of that in the first video… 35-50 seconds …. Right on ^ you understand Birds 😎 On 6/17/2023 at 6:03 PM, AnneS said: I have played a handful of ‘birds— I couldn’t tell you which models/years, etc. And after listening to these clips—I must now confess that I’m not, I don’t think, a ‘bird person in the first place. Far from everyone is. I kind of get you thoughts, yet find that the warmth comes via the sweetness of these creatures. The glaze mentioned in post 1. You would surely sense it if it was there. On 6/17/2023 at 7:51 PM, TomPhx said: The one I am delighted to own came to me secondhand, from a guy in the city about an hour away. It does sound similar to the first recording, maybe with a little less bass. Could be I hear mine differently because I'm behind it, not in front of it's projecting sound. I don't know what a vintage Bird should sound like, only from some of the 60's-70's recordings, which were laid down with much different technology. I do know that my Bird always makes me smile with the musical sound it makes. What year is yours from ? On 6/17/2023 at 7:56 PM, Twang Gang said: I have two Hummingbirds, neither of which is supposed to be a recreation of a 60s model, they are just modern Bozeman versions. One is maple body, the other is hog. Neither sounds like either of these videos. On 6/18/2023 at 3:50 PM, fortyearspickn said: Strings, picks, relief - can have a difference, though then won't make an H'Bird sound like a Taylor ! As far as strings - if theses are brand new - that would explain the 'harshness' to me. My H'bird seems louder than my SJ200 and J45Koa - but I think part of it is more subtle - it is more like it PROJECTS the sound further out of the sound hole directly - whilst the other two let it rumble around and mellow in there before sending it out. I'd never say one is 'better' than the other - only that their each different, and great. These guitars - like the 45 fx - sound rather (if not highly) different from era to era sometimes year to year, even ex to ex. A part of the enchanting charm. Note Zombs words. On 6/18/2023 at 3:51 PM, Larsongs said: These Guitars sound great! But, remember, some of the Mics used to record them cost as much as the Guitars or more.. Then there’s the Pre-Amps, Interfaces & the magic of Pro Tools, Logic or whatever DAW & the Mixing Engr.. Beautifully done…. I actually looked up the price for these mikes after hearing the tests. Over here they cost what would be between 21 and 2.300 USD. That's a lot added to the price of the guitar to get a good basic sound. Likely too much. . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
E-minor7 Posted June 21, 2023 Author Share Posted June 21, 2023 On 6/17/2023 at 9:40 PM, 62burst said: At least the player shows us that he is tuning the whole Bird down a half a step in vid #2. That might affect what RBpicker is hearing just a little bit. But we just don't get to hear enough of the maple Hummingbirds (such as the one that you're keeping) that are out there (hint, hint). As we know an important factor. And yups, we must hear more short scale square maple Gibsons. . 🍁 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MorrisrownSal Posted June 21, 2023 Share Posted June 21, 2023 Em, I swap guitars a lot, probably because it’s an escape for me from some other stuff. But it’s amazing that I always love mahogany guitars first off… I love J45s, Birds, D18s old and new… by the way I have a few D18s… a newer one, and a 2003 straight braced one. It has the perfect neck… that older standard series 11/16 Martin neck. I was thinking how that neck would be great on an Adj bird. For me anyways. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chasAK Posted June 22, 2023 Share Posted June 22, 2023 Come, Thou Fount Nice tune Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
E-minor7 Posted June 22, 2023 Author Share Posted June 22, 2023 8 hours ago, chasAK said: Come, Thou Fount Nice tune Thanx a lot for crystallising. Didn't know the tune but recognized it anyway, , , you know as ancient folklore, which I really like. Pointing it out is highly appreciated. This speaks with an extra layer these hours ~ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chasAK Posted June 24, 2023 Share Posted June 24, 2023 (edited) Glad you were blessed by it. btw thank for the extra video Charlie Edited June 24, 2023 by chasAK 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BigYellowOne Posted June 26, 2023 Share Posted June 26, 2023 (edited) My 2 cents- I’m not a ‘Bird expert but I own one (Historic from 04/05) and have played a handful, though never the pleasure of a bone fide 60s vintage. I think they both sound like Hummingbirds- they are woody, direct, and dry is a word I’ve grown fond of. I don’t really like the “sweet” description (I haven’t heard a satisfying description of what sweetness is) of the classic ‘Bird sound but I think it’s a measure of the midrange. I think especially recording #2 is going to push your ear to hear the classic sound because it sounds like it has brand new, rather bright strings on it. So it’s a bit more metallic. The mic choice and placement also play a role as well obviously. Small diaphragm condensers are known to be accurate but are often sterile as well. I would also suspect that #2 may have the mids scooped out a bit too as I’m also guilty of doing. Edited June 26, 2023 by BigYellowOne Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
E-minor7 Posted June 26, 2023 Author Share Posted June 26, 2023 7 hours ago, BigYellowOne said: My 2 cents- I’m not a ‘Bird expert but I own one (Historic from 04/05) and have played a handful, though never the pleasure of a bone fide 60s vintage. I think they both sound like Hummingbirds- they are woody, direct, and dry is a word I’ve grown fond of. I don’t really like the “sweet” description (I haven’t heard a satisfying description of what sweetness is) of the classic ‘Bird sound but I think it’s a measure of the midrange. I think especially recording #2 is going to push your ear to hear the classic sound because it sounds like it has brand new, rather bright strings on it. So it’s a bit more metallic. The mic choice and placement also play a role as well obviously. Small diaphragm condensers are known to be accurate but are often sterile as well. I would also suspect that #2 may have the mids scooped out a bit too as I’m also guilty of doing. Thx - don't forget #2 is half a step down as 62burst noticed. I find it a bit peculiar you don't get the sweet talk. It's one of the things the Birds are so well known for, , , the glaze, the nectar, the dripping honey. Another would be that hey are quite light sounding >> meaning the opposite of a D or HD-28. Would like to hear & see yours P.S. - 10 years ago I had a yellow Std. Hummingbird so sugarful it couldn't play certain tunes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BigYellowOne Posted June 28, 2023 Share Posted June 28, 2023 On 6/26/2023 at 4:33 PM, E-minor7 said: Thx - don't forget #2 is half a step down as 62burst noticed. I find it a bit peculiar you don't get the sweet talk. It's one of the things the Birds are so well known for, , , the glaze, the nectar, the dripping honey. Another would be that hey are quite light sounding >> meaning the opposite of a D or HD-28. Would like to hear & see yours P.S. - 10 years ago I had a yellow Std. Hummingbird so sugarful it couldn't play certain tunes. I don’t disagree with anyone who describes guitars with words like “sweet” but I just don’t hear them that way so I’m not always sure what is meant. I’m sure I use words that others don’t relate to as well- maybe “dry” is just as vague to others but it makes perfect sense to me. I guess saying that I didn’t like that description makes it sound like I disagree with it- it’s more so that I don’t relate to it or understand what “it” is. As an example/aside I would describe the difference between the J45 sound and the Bird sound as primarily a change in EQ, but I don’t hear one of them as sweeter than the other. It’s hard to describe sounds/feelings about sounds without comparison and that makes this a fun/challenging thing to discuss with written word. What’s the best way to upload audio? I can put something here- I’ll do some research on how the forum handles files. I’m curious to get your opinion on whether it has the DNA of the classic Hummingbirds. Here’s a photo of mine- it’ll be my #1 til I’m in the ground. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phil OKeefe Posted June 28, 2023 Share Posted June 28, 2023 On 6/17/2023 at 4:09 AM, Murph said: They keep getting better at digital recording. Someday they'll master it. While I have my reasons for doubting that it was, how do you know it wasn't an analog recording that was later transferred to digital for the video? What specifically do you think needs to be improved with modern digital recording? It what way(s) do you feel that modern digital recording is lacking compared to analog recording? Signal to noise ratio? Transient response? Frequency response? Maybe something else? I'm genuinely curious as to what you think was sonically "wrong" or lacking in those recordings. Personally, unless I am there myself to hear the sound source directly in the actual room while the recording is being done, I find it difficult to fault the accuracy of a recording, simply because there is no point of accurate reference to compare it to. YMMV. It might be a truly accurate representation of the sound that was happening in the room, or it might not be - unless you were there, there's just no way to know for certain, and there are loads of variables that can influence the final sound of any recording, regardless of whether it was recorded to analog tape or to digital. On 6/17/2023 at 12:40 PM, 62burst said: True. And putting tube preamps into the mics/signal chain is a step in that direction. Other than the Brüel & Kjær 4006 microphone (which was visible in the videos), how do you know what the exact signal path was for these specific recordings? While the 4006 isn't a tube microphone, it is possible that they used a tube mic preamp. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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