Giant Posted May 10, 2009 Share Posted May 10, 2009 Uncle dave, that is a touching story, I think you are teaching your kids the right way. Thumbs up for you! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Swmcv2007 Posted May 10, 2009 Share Posted May 10, 2009 I couldn't vote. I'm an adopted only child and my parents have never hit me. Just not how my family works. I never give my parents any real or serious trouble because from day one they seemed like reasonable and fair people. The one weird thing about my family though is how we talk to each other. Since I'm no longer in school and still living at home to save money, I've noticed how we talk to each other like arch enemies. We swear, insult, yell, and ignore each other in pleasant everyday conversation. It's kind of like an ongoing joke. At the end of the day all my chores and duties are always done, and I always tell each one of them that I love them at the end of every phone call or before I go to sleep. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Holy Hand Grenade Posted May 10, 2009 Share Posted May 10, 2009 They should respect you but if you make your kids fear you then your just an asshole. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cvansickle Posted May 10, 2009 Share Posted May 10, 2009 Fear? No. Respect? Yes. There's a difference. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
milod Posted May 10, 2009 Share Posted May 10, 2009 Well... From what I've seen, regardless of the immediate relationship, marrying a girl with children when there is a major difference in childrearing philosophy probably won't end up being happy in the long run. I probably shouldn't say that. But I believe it's true. That's not "just" childrearing, though, although that's one major visible sign of internal philosophy regardless of other apparent behavioral compatibility. I've seem many parallel, if not similar, cases where the kids involved end up obviously disliking both the biological and step parent and that in itself brings its fair share of unhappiness. Deep unhappiness. As for childrearing, I'm likely the last person to talk to about specifics since I may end up with kids when I grow up, but I seriously doubt it. OTOH, learning theory tells us that children learn in various ways regardless of age. Audio, visual, tactile... So what is being learned at what age? A friend noted the best way to keep a 2-year-old from sticking a fork into an electric plug is to slap the hand - or failing that, letting the kid get a shock. His wife still is angry about the latter but offered no functional alternative but covering the plug-in with a plastic cover than any 2-year-old can figure how to remove. Violence - from falling off a tricycle at age 4 to a schoolyard battle - is part of life. Learning to cope with it seemed so much easier when I was a kid than I believe it is for today's "protected" children. Falling out of a tree teaches a tough lesson and is more violent than a spanking. I think kids who learn only through falling out of a tree at age 18 have a far more difficult time in life than those who received spankings as kids. Here's a true story: Around age 10 or so I was among a group of boys who divided into two unofficial "sides" for a mudball fight. Yup, some rocks ended up in the mudballs. The town cop came up and told us to quit or we'd be in trouble. We all just laughed. Then he said he'd call our parents. We all quit. Why? Was it "fear" or recognition we were doing wrong and might have to pay consequences. We were too dumb at that age to recognize the rock-embedded mudballs were far more dangerous... The cop knew. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NeoConMan Posted May 10, 2009 Share Posted May 10, 2009 Love your children... Show them that you love them' date=' hug them, hold them let them know they are the most important thing in your life. Don't be afraid to show your kids some affection... Pick them up, hug them, kiss them, make funny fart noises on their necks.[/quote']Dave, this is where I have to take exception to your post. Do you really think none of us do any of this with our children? My kids are as much a part of my life as possible. My wife is an elementary school teacher because she likes the little ones most, and she loves her job. I've always said that a child's mind is a terrible thing not to fxck with, so I always poke them and point out things to make them think. I'm the dad who spent 45 minutes in Yellowstone with my oldest when she was seven - looking at ant hills. She's flown airplanes and took pics to school to prove it. She has operated huge cranes. She's been many places with me - holding my hand all the time. Well, she's 16 now so not really interested in that anymore, but I ALWAYS stimulated their minds and kept them thinking about something other than themselves... You can be stern with them and let them know when they do something wrong but hitting them will make them hate you not respect you. You don't have to beat the sh!t out of your kids everyday to make them behave.If you knock sparks out their *** one time' date=' they will ALWAYS know it's a card that can be played again. They don't want that. As a small child, my Dad beat my *** GOOD a few times - maybe [i']too[/i] good.... My stepdad never touched me, but was a colossal *** hole and I've rarely spoken to him since my early 20's. I'm 43. I too had the various impulses and urges to beat his *** to a bloody pulp in my teens - came this close a couple times. It wasn't due to any physical conflict we ever had. Instead, I moved away and left him behind. My Dad is 72, and might still knock sparks from my *** if I pushed the right buttons. My younger sister and I would walk barefooted thru hell to protect him now - same as our children. I respect no man on earth more than my father. Let the mere fact that they have let you down or disappointed you be the punishment. My mom was the Queen of guilt trips. Just one look' date=' shaking her head in disappointment and saying nothing made me feel lower than snake sh!t. She was the primary discipline, mainly because I never wanted my Dad involved. He had a standard procedure if he was involved in discipline - you got your *** beat. He didn't want to know what you did, why you did it, who was with you, what happened - nothing. His position was that my Mom should be able to handle it, and if we didn't listen to her and [i']he[/i] had to get involved.... All in all, it rarely happened. 99% of the reason is because it was UGLY when it did so we did our best to avoid it. When my parents spoke, we listened - end of story. Love and respect will give you a long and healthy family life. Not fear. Fear should be out of the picture by the teen years' date=' fully replaced by respect. At some point, the parent no longer shoulders the burden. Kids have to accept responsibility for their actions. If they can't seem to figure it out, then Plan B must be brought into play. I say all this out of experience of being a child not as being a parent... Am I to assume you have no children of your own? You realize what this does for your credibility on the subject at hand, eh? Not trying to be a sh!t head, just saying... I have friends who never had kids. They are FULL of helpful advice. One was a school teacher for 4 years until she gave it up. ALL her parents were so stupid and raising their kids so wrong... $.02 from some guy on the internet. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NeoConMan Posted May 10, 2009 Share Posted May 10, 2009 They should respect you but if you make your kids fear you then your just an asshole. Tell us about your kids. How many' date=' how old, what gender? Enlighten us please, *** hole. :) (Hey, you called me one first!) :-) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
max2343 Posted May 10, 2009 Share Posted May 10, 2009 Vary well said, Neo. If the old man got called in, it was always an ***-beat-in. Or just plain knocked on your ***. About a year ago, I talked to my old man about that kinda **** that used to go on when we were little. He answered by telling me that the reason he would do that is only because we were doing something to make the old lady come and Bich at him. He said she was always Bich-in and when we got her going more, that made him more miserable and pissed and he had to or she would start on him (more than usual) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Holy Hand Grenade Posted May 10, 2009 Share Posted May 10, 2009 Tell us about your kids. How many' date=' how old, what gender? Enlighten us please, *** hole. (Hey, you called me one first!) :-) I only had one son and he died in the Iraq war. 20 years old, Male. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pauline Posted May 10, 2009 Share Posted May 10, 2009 We, my wife more than I, educated our kids well, that at this time it never needs hitting them. They respect the decisions of their parents, ok sometimes it needs more explanations, but they never feared us. Hope this went in future the same. Our kids do the same they see from their parents, and they get adult - and we get old.... My vote is no! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
daveinspain Posted May 10, 2009 Share Posted May 10, 2009 Am I to assume you have no children of your own? You realize what this does for your credibility on the subject at hand' date=' eh? Not trying to be a sh!t head, just saying... I have friends who never had kids. They are FULL of helpful advice. One was a school teacher for 4 years until she gave it up. ALL her parents were [b']so stupid[/b] and raising their kids so wrong... $.02 from some guy on the internet. Exactly Neo... For this I made it clear at the end of my post that my thoughts about the subject come from my experience as a child. My dad was a military man, strict and fearful. I was growing up in the 70's, I wanted long hair and Beatle boots... the opposite from what my father wanted. We had issues. His method of control was the strap.... Unfortunately, my dad died when I was just about to graduate from high school. I only wish we had the time to get over our differences and get to know each other. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Homz Posted May 10, 2009 Share Posted May 10, 2009 There are many examples of both disciplines. Those that instill fear in their children and get good results. Those that don't and get good results. Perhaps the final results are more genetic then environment. Perhaps those bad apples would have been bad no matter the method of child rearing. Perhaps the only thing a parent is teaching their children is weather to or not to love and honer their parents as they make it to adulthood. It seems to me after it is all done and you laying in that hospital bed waiting to die. Are your kids there because they love you or because they can't wait to see you gone. I think mine will be there because they love me. I hope. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
charlie brown Posted May 10, 2009 Share Posted May 10, 2009 I was spanked, disciplined by word or deed, as needed (and only as needed), by both Teachers and my parents. If I got in trouble in school, I got in TWICE as much trouble, at home! They (almost) always backed up the teacher/school, in those cases. IF/when there might be an over-reaction from a teacher, or the school, the parents sat down with those folks, and through dialog and/or action, came to an agreement, in a civilized manner! Granted, it was a small town school, where everyone knew one another. But, it was a much different time, too. Authority, while rebelled against, as all kids or teenagers do, at times...was generally well respected. There WERE "consequences" to deal with, when one acted up. It wasn't (yet) legislated out of existence! Your parents were in charge of, and responsible for you, until you were 18. No question, about it! Were there abuses...of course. But far less than currently occurs. Children, of that era and earlier, were better behaved, overall! And I'd venture to say "happier" overall, as well. There will always be exceptions, to the rule(s)....but, catering to the lowest behavioral standards is NOT the answer...IMHO. You only have to look around, to see the results, of not allowing parental or teacher disciplines. LOVE is the answer, there's no doubt, about that! But, it has to be with discipline, respect (both ways) and real Consequences, for bad behavior...not rewarding it! CB Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cruznolfart Posted May 10, 2009 Share Posted May 10, 2009 My bro and I got our faces slapped for sassing/smart-moufin', or a proper whuppin' for a major infraction such as lying or outright disobedience. But even a proper whuppin' was across Dad's (the Colonel) lap with maybe 5 licks with his belt. Now, to this very day, the sound of an old army brass buckle getting undone puts me at attention, but I don't feel that we were in any way abused. And I don't have any issues. My Sons could count on one hand the number of times they were actually spanked. I'm really good at "the look" but you gotta start that when they're still suckin' mama's noo-noo or they won't take you seriously. Start all that intimidation when they're real little and you don't hafta punch 'em up very often. :D I have two Sons. The older will be 40 next month and is a major in the Army, Infantry. He's very strict with his 3 Sons, far more so than I was or than I think he needs to be. My younger Son, 38, is extremely calm, laid-back and playful with his 2 Sons. That's right, 5 Grandsons from my boys, Lordy! Here's what I know. You can raise any number of children by the same standards, and end up with an equal number of very different adults. Some of 'em you'll like and some of 'em you won't. Personally I think my older Son's a bit of a prick. LOL! But I don't remember ever being afraid of my Parents and I don't think I ever gave my children reason to fear me. I certainly hope I didn't. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
milod Posted May 10, 2009 Share Posted May 10, 2009 .... Again, in a sense I ain't got no place to talk... But a longtime cop friend used to tell the tale - I was forbidden to use it in a newspaper column by a publisher who said "You can't say that - and I don't care that it's true" - about a logging family in the high hills. Pop, the logger, really cared deeply about his sons but wasn't all that sophisticated. Had two sons. The older got a bit wild in high school and it came down at one time to fisticuffs, at which contest Dad won. A neighbor saw it, called the cops. Dad was found guilty of something or another and was put on probation with the alternative being the big house. The fisticuffed son backed off his ways. The younger son got wilder and wilder - and every time Dad would move to do something, the kid would say something to the effect of, "You touch me and it's the pen, you SOB." Last I heard the older son was a school superintendent; the younger was in the pen. BTW, don't badmouth preachers' kids necessarily. My Dad was in the small town Harley and car dealership business until his WWII inclination took over and he took to the cloth. Although I was raised as a businessman and mechanic's kid - and college student's kid <grin> - I have to agree with a PK college buddy who noted that preachers' kids may be as wild as a pet coon, but he'd never met a mean one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flight959 Posted May 10, 2009 Share Posted May 10, 2009 growing up.......I had a bike and a big world to explore. The only things i knew for fact is that my parents loved me' date=' and that "bad people would hurt me" with that in mind, i went out and learned how the world works by experencing it, no one cares how good you are for your age, no one will give you a cup of water when you are hot and thirsty, and when you are tired and far from home, you better start riding home before it gets dark my parents loved me, do i fear them? absolutley not............... i fear the world and apreciate how loving my parents are/where[/quote'] =D> =D> Very well said Jess! Regards Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
milod Posted May 10, 2009 Share Posted May 10, 2009 jessenoah... OTOH, I know an elementary school principal out here who once drove through a less well "heeled" part of town mornings during bad weather (and it gets chilly here) to pick up kids before there was a shuttle bus available. We talked about it night before last. He said he's glad he's retiring at the end of this school year because "nowadays I wouldn't do it. I couldn't." Sad, sad, sad, sad - especially when that sort or stuff hits the boonies where I live. BTW, I'm not sure that under current conditions I'd pick up a half-frozen kid en route to school freezing his ears as once I froze mine. Ain't worth the potential. I think it stinks, but... unfortunately it ain't 1955 when life was a lot less complicated by more lawyers than there's traditional employment for. Heck, even cops on solo patrol worry about that sort of thing nowadays. Ain't life wonderful? Then we wonder why kids see the world as cold and uncaring? Hell, folks care as much as ever - they're just scared. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rocketman Posted May 10, 2009 Share Posted May 10, 2009 This is a good topic, but one that can't be answered with a simple yes and no IMHO. I've got a lot to say on this subject but I can sum it in one line. I feel that I should be my son's best friend when he behaves and shows respect to us and others, but I should be his worst nightmare when he doesn't. My son is 8 now and he's very respectful (he' taking karate and they do a great job instilling all the good things), but once in a while he forgets. He quickly remembers though when we take the Wii away for a day though.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
milod Posted May 10, 2009 Share Posted May 10, 2009 rocketman.... Hmmmmm. Talk about generational differences... a Wiiii? <grin> I think I can't even imagine an equivalent from my era. The bike was transportation, the BB rifle at that age may be about the closest equivalent. I s'pose Dad could have taken away the books or my favorite thing, the big console radio. Television was at the quality that by the time we got one (notice I said "one") I often read books through programs anyway. I think I was around 7 or 8. Although my 28-year-younger baby brother would have died if somebody took away his Atari 8-bit computer at that time. I think I'd prefer the occasional spanking to other options! <bigger grin> Depending on the instructor, the karate can be good, regardless of style, with a bit of discipline involved. Just keep a close watch as he ages on the appropriate rather than inappropriate pressures on various joints in his bod. (I didn't start until about 12 and in those days it was very informal and very much along the lines of "American military-style" jiujitsu. Kick-punch arts hadn't hit big in the US yet and even after they were, "judo" was considered more appropriate by some of the few real masters in the US until after puberty. Even then teens can do really stupid things for their joints regardless of what they're told. I personally never particularly cared to teach kids under 18 or so although I did. It's too much sport and flash nowadays for very, very old-school guys who don't even believe in tournaments even if they ran more than a few.) I think music is another good excellent discipline, depending on how it's taught. On that one, I think parental example may be better than parental teaching but... my parents both were good vocalists and lousy instrumentalists. m Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guitar slinger Posted May 10, 2009 Share Posted May 10, 2009 No!! Hell no! My dad was spanked every day of his life by my grandpa and so he (my dad) decided that he would never raise a hand against his sons. You want to know what happened? He showed us (me and my brothers) what it means to be a man. Everyday in his life he showed us how to be frank, honest, decent and fair. He always said he never desired to be feared. Instead, he was respected by his sons. And loved - very very much. We would not disobey our father, we would not raise our voices, we would not turn our backs on him and let him be. We would listen, think feel guilty and grow. And we've grown. We are not boys anymore, we are men. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rocky4 Posted May 10, 2009 Author Share Posted May 10, 2009 I remember three teachers in junior high that had boat oars with holes drilled in them for paddles. I feared the paddle. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
grampa Posted May 11, 2009 Share Posted May 11, 2009 I think if your kids fear you, one day they may really turn on you. Fear does not lead to respect. Fear and discipline are not the same nor do they go together. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
djroge1 Posted May 11, 2009 Share Posted May 11, 2009 Did ya all ever hear the old saying' date=' the preachers kids are always the worse. It's been my personal experience that there is much truth in that old saying. [/quote'] Actually it's the deacon's kids who are the worst. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cruznolfart Posted May 11, 2009 Share Posted May 11, 2009 Actually it's the deacon's kids who are the worst. Or the best, if yer real lucky. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
djroge1 Posted May 11, 2009 Share Posted May 11, 2009 I cannot vote because the answer for me is both yes and no. You have to look at the overall development of each individual child. When they are babies, there is no need to instill fear in them. In fact that may even be detrimental to the child. In these stages of life the most important thing they need is love and trust. They need to know that they can trust you. Also depending on their age, they don't understand the meaning of punishment. As their brain develops they begin to understand the concepts of the rules you have and of right/wrong and even slight punishment thus they also begin to understand fear. I think it is better for them to learn the concept of consequences instead of fear. Such as "if I do this, then x will happen." Most children think in absolutes or concrete thinking until the pre-teen years. This is when they learn the rules of right/wrong or good/bad. In the pre-teen years you begin getting the abstract thinking and then the questions begin "why" "how" etc... My point here is that humans grow and develop in a fairly predictable way thus how you handle punishment will change as they grow. Also every child is different and some of us who have multiple kids know that what worked for one child may not work for the next. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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