Thundergod Posted October 22, 2009 Share Posted October 22, 2009 What's the difference between a good musician/band and a bad one that deserves some of you to just acuse him of sucking? Yes, I'm posting this because of AXE's thread about that young artist. Now I will say this first: not my style. But the kid can certainly play and has some killer guitars. He also knows how to play with fx and has a decent (ok, more than decent) tone and good licks. Hell he is even making money with his playing, while most people here haven't ever made a dime out of it. So why do some of you say he is not a good player? Please enlighten me and explain what is a good player to you guys? What makes a person worthy of you saying "he is good"? Maybe having been famous 4 decades ago is a requirement? it isnt for me but I know it is for some of you. Can you honestly tell me if you had listened to Jimmy Page (to name one most of you guys like) and Brian May (to name my personal ultimate guitar hero) before they got famous you would have liked them and said "they are great and will become the best thing there is"? I don't think so. This is to say: GIVE PEOPLE A FCK'N CHANCE. By the way, that kid? he's got a nice selection of axes, he also uses eminence speakers and looks like he knows his way around a studio... that gives him extra points in my book=d> Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Look! Im guitarest! Posted October 22, 2009 Share Posted October 22, 2009 (Edit because it has zero substance, which was its intention) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rocky4 Posted October 22, 2009 Share Posted October 22, 2009 I didn't like the "better than all of us " comment. The kid had skill, but I would rather listen to bagpipes than that sh*t. (but I actually like listening to bagpipes) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dem00n Posted October 22, 2009 Share Posted October 22, 2009 Time and perservence...did i spell that right. Well its really all about timing. Also a guitarist who goes outside of the genre...some of the best guitarist went outside of it and stole little things for other genres and combined both to create something great. Like Rhoads...metal and classical music=sick ****! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thundergod Posted October 22, 2009 Author Share Posted October 22, 2009 Before people start giving me sh¡t, let me say a couple more things: I've been a pro live musician. I've been a studio owner. I've been a soundman. I've been a guitar teacher. I've been a hired guitar player for recordings. I've made a living (and a good one) out of music in the past. As a recording and gigging musician, and a studio owner and soundman, I've attended hundreds of shows and sessions, I've also played in large places (for as much as 17.000 people a couple of times, and for crowds of 150-300 more than a hundred times) and so I've seen the best and the worst of them, I have to admit most of "them" were not good at all but they had the guts to go onstage and play in front of a lot of people, and most importantly: learn from it. I have to note also, as all of the above mentioned, I'm not easily impressed by bands/artists ('cause Ive seen some really bad and some really good ones), so opening a link and finding out it leads to a young guy that plays and knows his stuff is a good surprise, thanks for posting it AXE, too bad some guys didnt apreciate it. So what does it take to be worthy of you guys? (and you know who you are) Give kids a chance, I for one have witnessed some kids with unbelievable talent, I've seen and worked with kids that at 13 play better than I ever will, and I feel good for them, and feel grateful for having the oportunity of working with them, and learning from them without them even knowing because, you know, being a "pro" they think I already know all that crazy stuff they do. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GIANTRobOT420 Posted October 22, 2009 Share Posted October 22, 2009 Its all about balance. No such thing as good Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thundergod Posted October 22, 2009 Author Share Posted October 22, 2009 At you? Who? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
myspace.com/jessenoah Posted October 22, 2009 Share Posted October 22, 2009 IMO........... good guitarists are a dime a dozen, there are some people who have great chops, some people who make wonderful sounds, some people who really understand the theatrics of playing guitar, there are some people who have combinations of all 3. in the end, with a good rythem section, and an attractive frontman, the lamest guitarist can still be quite sucsessful! the thing that to me is cool about guitar, is that you can group people up in genres, blues, rock, blues rock, shred, country, hiphop/rap/black culture music, pop, hardcore/metal/grind/core, ect....... 5 different shred guys can play the same lick, and still put their own different feel to it, 5 different blues guys can play the same lick, and phrase it just a little bit different Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thundergod Posted October 22, 2009 Author Share Posted October 22, 2009 IMO........... good guitarists are a dime a dozen' date=' there are some people who have great chops, some people who make wonderful sounds, some people who really understand the theatrics of playing guitar, there are some people who have combinations of all 3. in the end, with a good rythem section, and an attractive frontman, the lamest guitarist can still be quite sucsessful! the thing that to me is cool about guitar, is that you can group people up in genres, blues, rock, blues rock, shred, country, hiphop/rap/black culture music, pop, hardcore/metal/grind/core, ect....... 5 different shred guys can play the same lick, and still put their own different feel to it, 5 different blues guys can play the same lick, and phrase it just a little bit different[/quote'] Thanks Jesse, your 2 cents look like a million bucks [-o</ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
solacematt Posted October 22, 2009 Share Posted October 22, 2009 Personally, to me, it doesn't matter how good a guitarist you are, if you can't write a decent song who cares if you can play every scale, or can do sweeps, and all sorts of showy stuff. I know that there are a ton of guitarists out their that are signed and are getting to play everywhere from small clubs to arenas and stadiums playing simple songs. That's fine and dandy; they got to make it with songs that a lot of people liked. That's great. Some of them may not be able to shred, or even play a scale, but maybe the guy who can do all the fret gymnastics can't write a song to save his own life. ::shrugs:: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thundergod Posted October 22, 2009 Author Share Posted October 22, 2009 Well said. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ledzep59 Posted October 22, 2009 Share Posted October 22, 2009 Well I think if an artist lacks fundamentals, then they are bad. If you can't keep rhythm or play chords without buzz or don't know when your guitar is out of tune- that is not a good musician. All successful artists learned the basics whether we're talking about guitar, percussion, or whatever. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
milod Posted October 22, 2009 Share Posted October 22, 2009 I guess I'm having some problems with summa this. You've gotta be a good songwriter to be a good guitarist? Sheesh, yah pretty much just dumped Segovia. And then, and then... I hate to say this, but I think different genres bring different skill sets that may or may not help a guitarist sound good. I just bought a cheeep cheeeeeeeeeep fake Strat. Fifty bucks new "on sale." It's horrid. Gotta work more on the setup because the strings still are too high, but learning about that "type" of guitar was the purpose. I love doing jazz. "Misty." So I'm messing with this cheapie thing and suddenly ... hey, let's try this different fingering and... Hmmmm. That makes me think of a different rhythm, and... Gee, how 'bout trying... then another alternate fingering and... kinda sorta an alternative chord and... Then I went back to the "jazz axe" and... Hmmmm. Gotta work on that. But is it "good" guitar playing since I know I lack the talent to be more than "skilled?" I dunno. Think sometimes that a good band is folks who "fit" with what they're doing and with each other; who make whatever they do sound good even to people who don't like the style. If they're "successful" it's likely 'cuz they've also intelligently booked venues where people were likely to like their stuff. A good guitarist is one with skill AND talent to help make stuff sound good either on a solo gig or with a group, whatever the group might be, whatever the style might be. I look at some of the folkies I've followed and heck, their guitar skill ain't much even though they wrote the songs and have played for half a century or more and are "legends" in the art. Hell, I've come across quite a number of players whom I didn't think I had even the degree of skill I have and... Heck, they sound a lot better to me than I do. So... it's not skill, 'cuz almost any of us working hard and "unworking zenlike" can develop skill. It's the talent to sound good with simple stuff. It's timing; as a group member it's "fitting." What the heck, I think all that's true regardless of style. I still work like @#$% for technique and alternative ways to play, but... let's face it, a lotta "really good" guys simply hit the right venue at the right time and they have the talent of timing and phrasing that keeps them in bill-paying the rest of their lives. m Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
solacematt Posted October 22, 2009 Share Posted October 22, 2009 Well I think if an artist lacks fundamentals' date=' then they are bad. If you can't keep rhythm or play chords without buzz or don't know when your guitar is out of tune- that is not a good musician. All successful artists learned the basics whether we're talking about guitar, percussion, or whatever. [/quote'] We're not talking about any of that though. Because odds are, their not stupid enough to go out with an instrument that isn't going to stay in tune, or not use a tuner. Anyone going out gigging will know the basics. Shoot, even The Ramones knew some of the basics. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Duende Posted October 22, 2009 Share Posted October 22, 2009 I guess I'm having some problems with summa this. You've gotta be a good songwriter to be a good guitarist? Sheesh' date=' yah pretty much just dumped Segovia. [/quote'] a hem a hem... Mr Segovia wrote some great pieces! How is it going Mr Milod :- Matt Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
milod Posted October 23, 2009 Share Posted October 23, 2009 Too busy, Matt... I owe another 20,000 words on a philosophy/education piece I'm working on. Gonna be a busy weekend. I figure 1-2,000 words an hour it's still 10-18 hours. Maybe pick a little to refresh the brain. The thing with Segovia to me is that I love Bach on guitar. I guess that sez it. I've written some crap since I played rock as a kid - even a bluegrass thing as a kid with some lyrics that shouldn't be sung in front of kids. (<grin> A banjo player friend and I had great fun with that one as a duet.) But... that doesn't make me a better guitar player, I don't think. I think if you like playing and have a degree of skill you'll probaby write stuff. But it's like Henry VIII writing music. Assuming that was really his. It didn't make him a guitar player. <grin> I dunno. I think arranging may well be super good, too. Alas, I have no talent except to work at stuff I wanna learn. You, on the other hand, have musical talent as well as the inclinations to learn skill and work hard at it as well. <grin> How's that for a nasty personal insult? <grin> It's my 1 a.m. and I'd best disappear to ready the mind and bod for the morrow. m Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cookieman15061 Posted October 23, 2009 Share Posted October 23, 2009 The thing is alot of so called musicians on here become critical of others because of the anonymity the internet provides. They've never been in a studio. They've never played in public. They've never done anything remotely successful in the music realm and so making snide comments concerning anothers talents gives them some strange satisfaction. A jealous a**hole only becomes a bigger one behind an awesome avatar on a web page. When I was younger belonging to a community of musicians, sharing technique, swapping secrets and generally rooting for one anothers success was the coolest part. I hung with guys who at the time were so much better than me and if they would have mocked me or told me I sucked it would have killed me. But instead they were encouraging, helpful and always willing to talk shop. Today I'm always happy for others success in music even if its not my favorite style or genre. What I'm saying I guess is I'd rather help build it up than tear it down. Rock on. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thermionik Posted October 23, 2009 Share Posted October 23, 2009 . To answer Thundergod's first point..... I heard Jimmy Page with the Yardbirds and Brian May with Smile (and the likes of Eric Clapton, when Jack and Ginger were putting Cream together in a tiny studio/rehearsal room in Chalk Farm, and Hendrix at his early UK gigs) back in the late sixties and early seventies. Whilst I might not have used TG's words ("they are great and will become the best thing there is") they certainly made me sit up and pay attention. But then I was already paying attention, because of the likes of Peter Green, Ronnie Montrose, Jeff Beck, Johnny Winter, Kim Simmonds, Lonnie Mack, Dave Edmunds, Harvey Mandel, Tony McPhee, Frank Zappa, Rory Gallagher, Al Wilson, Robert Fripp, Duane Allman, Robin Trower, Mike Bloomfield, Paul Kossof, Steve Stills, not to mention the whole slew of black blues players who's records we hunted down and listened to in awe..... What I am trying to say is the benchmark was and is high. But some of us also listen to anybody first time with open ears and minds - just don't expect us to be impressed every time, 'cause there are a hundred wannabees for every gem, and it seems those who 'make it' these days are NOT necessarily the most talented. As for TG's "give people a chance" comment - I agree. But I also saw a lot of talented musos discarded by the biz along the way..... . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mcmurray Posted October 23, 2009 Share Posted October 23, 2009 I like him. It's obvious he's a great player. His compositional skills though, remain to be seen. IMO you need to tick both boxes to suceed. There's a shitload of great players around, not many great composers. I first heard about him when he jammed with GNR a few months back. He would have been a HUGE improvement over Robin Finck. I'm sure if he were older he would have got the job. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flight959 Posted October 23, 2009 Share Posted October 23, 2009 Anyone that can play better that your own ability in my book merits only praise... The best guitar player threads are so subjective as they are based on folks individual playing... Take that Sear bloke on here for example.. F**kin amazing guitar player and people like him inspire me to want to do better with my playing... There are alot of players out there that sit in their houses playing guitar and they can play, well!! and the world is missing out... Just saying.. Regards.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Twiz Posted October 23, 2009 Share Posted October 23, 2009 I define a good guitarist/band as: Anyone that produces music passionately with a genuine artistic sense. Excellent technical ability, a flashy show, or a gimmick, don't really impress me. -That stuff can enhance the expreience, but it's secondary for me. I can't really explain how, but you can tell when an artist really has got something special. That's pretty much how I decide if someone is good. If you've got it, you've got it. That philosophy transcends my musical tastes as well. Even if I don't like the music an artist is making, I still can appreciate what they are doing, and find some inspiration. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
saturn Posted October 23, 2009 Share Posted October 23, 2009 There's a lot of room in between a "good" guitar player and someone who "sucks". I very rarely, if ever, say that another musician "sucks", even if their playing isn't to my liking. I find mostly, but not always, that younger people take the extreme opinions, where an artist is great or sucks and there's no middle ground. IMO, anyone who takes the time to learn some chords and riffs or whatever deserves at least a little credit. And if someone reaches the point where they're making a living playing guitar, well they must be doing something right even if I don't care for their music. Example for me would be Tom Morrelo. I don't care for most of his music or politics, but I'm not going to say he "sucks" as a guitar player. The fact that I'm not a fan doesn't mean I don't think he is a valid artists. BTW, I didn't even see the original post by AXE that Thunder was talking about. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brundaddy Posted October 23, 2009 Share Posted October 23, 2009 To me, there is a distinction between player vs. music. So calling a player "good" is relevant to technical skill, but calling a band "good" can be a tar baby. I'll try anyway. Good or great music can depend on how appealing their style is to me, or it be derived from some notable innovation on music's historic timeline, or it can be an arbitrary, incidental distinction made from the gut with no logical reasoning. Beaucoup times, I have said, "X is a good player. But his music sucks like a cheap hooker." Thus, a good player can definitely suck. Take the Beatles, for example. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Witmer Posted October 23, 2009 Share Posted October 23, 2009 Maybe part of the problem is that it's hard to evaluate a style of music you don't enjoy. Please don't hurt me, but I don't really like anything I've heard Zakk Wylde play. The blizzard of arpeggios numb my ears, and I have trouble understanding how what he's playing connects with the song beneath the lead part. Now for real heresy - Jimmy Page sometimes makes me feel the same way, as though you could swap out the rest of the song for a different one, and it wouldn't affect the lead one way or the other. I prefer guitar work that's so tied to the melody, chord structure, etc, that I can't imagine the one without the other. Now, I realize that this is at least partly my fault. Just because I can't hear the interaction between Zakk's lead and the bass line doesn't mean it's not there. But if you tell me that Zakk is better than a guitarist I prefer (or, as AXE said about the kid, "than all of us"), I have no way of knowing if that's really true. I know how to evaluate a guitarist against the standards of what I like. But if he's trying to do something else altogether, than ??? Put it this way: Who is the better athlete: Tom Brady or David Beckham? Well, it's tempting to decide by arguing over which "brand" of football is the most athletic, but that's a wasted argument. You could try to imagine them playing each other's sports, but that doesn't really work either - remember Michael Jordan's attempt at playing baseball? In the end, you just have to appreciate both for what they are. (Unless you're a Steelers fan... then Brady can rot, no matter how good he is... ;-) ) I think some of the bad reaction to AXE's post was because not everyone felt it was fair of him to compare the kid to people who play very differently. Of course, if he had said "this kid is way better than HighwayNine will ever be", nobody could have a problem with that. The differences are so extreme as to be unarguable. =) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ShredAstaire Posted October 23, 2009 Share Posted October 23, 2009 For me, TALENT has exactly ZERO to do with it. If I like it, I will listen to it. There is no "reason" i like certain stuff. It either hits me or it doesn't. It could be a baby banging on drums, but if it sounds cool, what the hell right? With respect to that kid....he's a good player...he's a horrible singer though...that was my criticism. I tend to stay away from the whole "That artist sucks" thing because if they have a record deal, there's a good chance they don't actually suck. I may not like the music they make but that doesn't mean there is no talent behind it. I severely dislike Coldplay, yet I recognize that they have a lot of playing talent as well as songwriting talent.....I just can't listen to it. I tend to judge based on my tastes and if what I hear tickles my tastes, then I'll listen to more. Thats about it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Archived
This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.