Strings - Nut - Saddle - Pins - They are essential to TONE!

[jibberish]

I agree with everything nodehopper (the OP) said eleven years ago.

Personally, I have found that monel strings sound best on my J-45, even the Martin ones!

Unless you are trying to shred on the J-45 like a horse's ***, I believe the heavier the strings, the better. 12's minimum.

StewMac prices are crap.

Bob Colosi is to whom your business should go.

[parallelograms]

i agree that in my limited experimentation that saddle and bridge pins do effect tone. I tried a bone saddle, ebony and bone bridge pins on my 09 songwriter and immediately swapped them back out for their tusq counterparts

i know im in the minority here but the tusq serves the sweet brightness on my sitka/rosewood/ebony SW much better (to my ear) than the bone and ebony components. I instantly heard a dulling or mellowing of the highs and a more prominent mid range

im also in the minority as it seems that there is no songwriter discussion in here!

[Asphaltcowboy]

On 12/31/2010 at 2:13 PM, nodehopper said:

Ok...To start off. I personally change the saddle and pins on all my guitars from the factory plastic to bone. I believe bone saddle/pins/nut do enhance the sound of my guitars and is a fairly low cost/low risk upgrade. (A little bit of MOP inlay on the pins can also give a little bling). Saddle and pins are something anyone can DYI, cutting and installing the nut is probably something for a good guitar tech to do for you and should be under $100

 

A couple resources for this upgrade, but not limited to, would include:

 

StewMac Saddles

 

StewMac Pins

 

Bob Colosi Custom Saddles and Pins

 

Frets.com Steel String Guitar Users Manual has lots of info on saddles, pins etc.

 

As far as strings go here is some basic info:

 

Quick primer on strings

 

 

I personally prefer coated strings such as:

 

D'Addario EXP Coated 80/20 Bronze Acoustic Guitar Strings

 

Martin SP Lifespan Phosphor Bronze Coated Acoustic Guitar Strings

 

While many here love Elixer strings ...I am personally not a fan. YMMV

 

Coated strings last longer and some will reduce finger squeak a bit. Purists believe the coating reduces tone or some people tend to change strings so often the extra cost for coated strings doesn't make sense.

 

And for small delicate guitars I love Newtone Heritage Acoustic Guitar Strings

(They are designed to have a reduced and virtually equal tension on each string.)

 

My general thoughts on string selection.

 

If you have a guitar that is naturally loud and bright go with Phosphor Bronze strings to bring some extra sweetness and complexity to its sound.

 

If you have a guitar that is a little on the quiet side or needs a boost in treble use 80/20 strings.

 

Two properties of strings that have a lot of influence on sound are string gauge and string tension.

 

Generally the larger the gauge the greater the tension, but not always. A couple websites like Just Strings have some information on string tension for a few of the strings they sell and it can be very interesting. Some manufacturers have the info on their websites. I wish this info was more easily available.

 

I would say the average steel string guitar player uses what are called "lights". Lights are also called 12's because generally that is the gauge of the high "E"string, but buyer beware that this is not an industry standard and also many sets of "lights or 12's" can have the other strings in the set vary in gauge from brand to brand.

 

Experimenting with strings is probably the single most effective, easy and inexpensive way to bring out the best tone of your guitar. Trying .11's .12's and mediums .13's can greatly effect the guitars sound. Most modern guitars can handle .13's, but make sure you refer to the guitars manual to be sure before stinging up .13's. (Warning - changing string gauge can change the action of your guitar. For example heavier strings will pull harder causing string height on the fretboard to raise and may require a truss rod adjustment)

 

80/20, phosphor bronze, coated and uncoated, custom strings sets where the low E A and D strings are heaver gauge to bring out a guitars bass response, etc...etc. The possibilities are endless and the fun of experimenting is Guitar Nerd Heaven!!

 

Alright ....let's discuss! Agree with me....Disagree with me....

I been debating on putting bone everything on the new j45 but read dosent make much difference would definately age better I’m sure I’d love some crazy exotic bone from a damn lion

[BoSoxBiker]

6 hours ago, Asphaltcowboy said:

I been debating on putting bone everything on the new j45 but read dosent make much difference would definately age better I’m sure I’d love some crazy exotic bone from a damn lion

The pins/tones debate notwithstanding, in the very least, the Saddle will make a difference. Whether you hear that difference is dependent on how your ears are to detail. On all mine, there was a difference. That difference to me was aggressiveness in tone. Maybe some increased responsiveness. On one guitar I used to have, the bone was too much. I put the stock back in and ordered another for Summer months.

Whatever you do, don't detune Round-Wound strings and re-tune them with the expectation of anything but dull sounding strings.

Depending on where you live, this may be close to the perfect time of year to try a new saddle. I another month or so, I'll be switching them to my shorter saddles. I've now accrued tall and short saddles for 4/5 of my nice acoustics. Be sure to take a little mini-exploration with your picks and strings collections after changes. 

The nut does make a difference for me, too. Double that price above as everything's gone up. A custom made nut at Gibson R&R is something around $250. I think it's well worth it. There are three ways for tonal improvement with a nut. Just the act of replacing a nut means your guitar is set up properly. There is no guaranty, but a good tech/Luthier will likely make much better slots than a partially work is, and in too many case, it's better than even stock. Better slots, less interference, etc. Then there's the issue of playability. That can change, depending on what you and your Luthier decide.  Heck, if you go with a fret leveling, you and your Luthier could have that thing playing like buttah, as they say.  You may not like that tone, though. Some folks like it higher just for the sound.

In closing, it is good fun for me to explore all of this. From one perspective, there is never really failure. Just different to varying degrees.

[Asphaltcowboy]

On 5/4/2021 at 6:02 AM, BoSoxBiker said:

The pins/tones debate notwithstanding, in the very least, the Saddle will make a difference. Whether you hear that difference is dependent on how your ears are to detail. On all mine, there was a difference. That difference to me was aggressiveness in tone. Maybe some increased responsiveness. On one guitar I used to have, the bone was too much. I put the stock back in and ordered another for Summer months.

Whatever you do, don't detune Round-Wound strings and re-tune them with the expectation of anything but dull sounding strings.

Depending on where you live, this may be close to the perfect time of year to try a new saddle. I another month or so, I'll be switching them to my shorter saddles. I've now accrued tall and short saddles for 4/5 of my nice acoustics. Be sure to take a little mini-exploration with your picks and strings collections after changes. 

The nut does make a difference for me, too. Double that price above as everything's gone up. A custom made nut at Gibson R&R is something around $250. I think it's well worth it. There are three ways for tonal improvement with a nut. Just the act of replacing a nut means your guitar is set up properly. There is no guaranty, but a good tech/Luthier will likely make much better slots than a partially work is, and in too many case, it's better than even stock. Better slots, less interference, etc. Then there's the issue of playability. That can change, depending on what you and your Luthier decide.  Heck, if you go with a fret leveling, you and your Luthier could have that thing playing like buttah, as they say.  You may not like that tone, though. Some folks like it higher just for the sound.

In closing, it is good fun for me to explore all of this. From one perspective, there is never really failure. Just different to varying degrees.

What is the best brand besides Gibson for bone nut saddle and pins? What animal is best lol

[Seagull]

On 5/6/2021 at 12:10 AM, Asphaltcowboy said:

What is the best brand besides Gibson for bone nut saddle and pins? What animal is best lol

I put a regular cow bone saddle and new bone pins on my J-45 Studio.  Gave me more bass response.  Left the OEM nut in-place.

I couldn't be happier.

I ordered off E-bay...

[DanvillRob]

As an "FYI",  Nodehopper has a room on Facebook where people post videos of whatever music touches them, they are fond of, or they recorded themselves.

Stephen is an old friend who I met at Fred's place during one of Fred's "SANSJAM" gatherings.

https://www.facebook.com/groups/443320650114958

[Kwlsky]

On 5/6/2021 at 12:10 AM, Asphaltcowboy said:

What is the best brand besides Gibson for bone nut saddle and pins? What animal is best lol

Any bone, nut and saddle will be worth a try as long as it is the correct radius. My two Gibson acoustics are 12" radius, so I used to just confirm that before buying. Cow bone nut/saddles/pins are relatively  inexpensive so I would always buy 2 packs due to bone's density being variable among different pieces. That way I could test drive both and see if one sounded better over the other. One saddle might even have slightly different intonation than the other.  I've now created a fun little hobby of making my own.

[E-minor7]

Here's what reached my inbox today. A little semi-sience which belongs in this thread.

Most of us have heard the views before, but newbies can start with this article. 

https://acousticguitar.com/can-bridge-pins-enhance-your-acoustic-guitars-tone/?mc_cid=8e038155d6&mc_eid=6822c9cc5b

I personally don't go that far - but, , , definitely fine-adjust the individual strings with various pin material.                                                                                 Some would find that disturbing - to me it adds an aesthetic touch in its own right. 

[E-minor7]

On 5/1/2022 at 7:15 PM, E-minor7 said:

Here's what reached my inbox today. A little semi-sience which belongs in this thread.

Most of us have heard the views before, but newbies can start with this article. 

https://acousticguitar.com/can-bridge-pins-enhance-your-acoustic-guitars-tone/?mc_cid=8e038155d6&mc_eid=6822c9cc5b

I personally don't go that far - but, , , definitely fine-adjust the individual strings with various pin material.                                                                                 Some would find that disturbing - to me it adds an aesthetic touch in its own right. 

And here some A-B-C-D sounds ~ 

 

 

 

 

[The dman]

I'm picking up my J-45 from my tech today. He took out the Element pickup and replaced it with a K&K mini. On the advice of a friend who did the same thing minus the K&K  I'm having him make a bone saddle so now I'll  be able to compare between the Tusq and the bone and use the one I like better. I will report back

[Kwlsky]

On 8/11/2022 at 8:16 AM, The dman said:

I will report back

Well, what's the verdict between the bone and Tusq to your ears?

[The dman]

KwlskyI found out my J-45 already had a bone nut. For whatever reasons the left handed J-45's have an uncompensated bone saddle, I assume this has to do with availability.

 

 

On 8/22/2022 at 7:01 PM, Kwlsky said:

Well, what's the verdict between the bone and Tusq to your ears?

KwlskyI I found out my J-45 already had a bone nut. For whatever reasons the left handed J-45's have  uncompensated bone saddles, I assume this has to do with availability.

Long story short my Tech did make a Tusq saddle but I kept the bone saddle installed in the guitar and  I've been so busy I haven't had the time to compare.  One of these days

[babydaddymusic]

On 1/1/2011 at 5:22 AM, EuroAussie said:

All excllent points, really good thread and thanks for sharing.

 

Couple things i would add:

 

1) I find mediums work great on mahogany b/s dreads as they bring out the natural woody richness of the tone, while 12's are better for rosewood b/s guitars. I found 13's on rosewood dreads in particular chokes the sound.

 

I prefer non coated strings and i always put a new set of strings before a gig, hence it makes sense to use non coated ones as i reagularly change them. I just find its easier to play with new strings, and as I use DR Sunbeams they have a warm tone straight off the bat so dont have to worry about new string zip'.

 

Bone pins /saddle - Ive plaed Colossi bone pins / saddles in all my main 3 guitars and yes, i do hear a genuine difference. Its subtle but there, all for the better

 

Guitar picks - this is probably to me the one thing that can change the tone of a guitar more than anything. Its also the cheapest 'modification'. Thicker picks bring a really different tone compared to lighter ones. Its worth experimenting. Personally i tried numerous picks but i alway come back to the Orange Tortex picks, but if i play a track where there is a lot flat picking i gravitate to a thicker pick, as it makes picking really a lot easier.

 

OK, thats my 7cents worth.

 

cheers.

Wow! I have every pick known to man and I have recently decided that the orange Tortex is the ONE. I have spent a great deal of time experimenting and recording not only picks but where on the guitar I strum. I greatly prefer the picking to happen closer to the neck unless I’m doing some speciality noodling transition.

[Murph]

The orange is a 60mm, correct?

I used to use those, but have gone thicker.

[fortyearspickn]

On 12/26/2022 at 10:15 AM, Murph said:

The orange is a 60mm, correct?

I used to use those, but have gone thicker.

Yep. Orange TORTEX is 60mm.   I too used that one for a few years and then went to the thicker yellow one 73mm.    I put a strip of clear medical 'bandaid' tape on them to make gripping easier, but finally moved on to Dunlop's Ultex and finally to  GrafTech TUSQ picks.  

[fortyearspickn]

On 5/3/2022 at 6:57 PM, E-minor7 said:

And here some A-B-C-D sounds ~ 

 

 

 

 

I'd be more concerned with the impact on sound of that thick pick guard, than the bridge pin material!   I just replace plastic pins with the mold seam because they look cheap - with bone with abalone inlays.  But do not believe the human ear can hear the difference between most materials - brass excepted.     If you take off pins and put different ones on when changing strings - even if you use the same brand - the 'new string zing' will be all you'll hear for a long while. By which time you'll have forgotten what the old pins sounded like.    To me, the only valid scientific proof would be putting different pins in on the same guitar - but with the same brand, gauge string in each of the 6 spots.   OR - to find 2 identically sounding guitars (same year, make, model of course)  and, using one type of pin in one and another type in the other.   In the meanwhile - I'll just use bone, and try to improve the sound by playing better.  Otherwise, for me - it's just putting lipstick on a pig !  

[Larsongs]

About as much as I can find on Legacy.Gibson.com is,  .012  - .053 Guage. Some say Gibson..

The true Specs of Guitars doesn’t seem to matter to most Consumers apparently.. As I’ve discovered even on this Forum.. Regardless of how many Threads are post continuously asking all kinds of Spec questions??

If most Consumers don’t care about Specs why would the Maufacturers?

Seems strange to me….. 

[E-minor7]

Hi here - Just wonder if any of you have tried out the ®ED Brand strings ?

                                                                                                                                                                                                  Thx 

[seabeesw]

+1 for Bob Colosi pins and saddles. I swapped the stock ones on my 2021 J45 (Cherry!) for Colosi bone saddle and pins, and it did wonders for the projection. When I swapped the saddle I pulled the Baggs under saddle pickup out. I sent photos to him, and Bob even tried to color match the pins for me. At this point, it’s pretty much an essential upgrade for any of my acoustics moving forward.