lead guitar - phrasing

[duane v]

These are the guitar solo's that made me the lead guitar player I am today.... Certainly there are many others that I've learned, but these particular solos I feel are the best constructed that have feeling, certain level of technical, and fit perfectly within the context of the song

 

Something - Beatles

Beatles - The End

Maggie May - Faces

Hotel California - Eagles

My Sharona - Knack

Van Halen - Outta Love

Boston - Hitch A Ride

RATT - Back For More

Journey - Any Way You Want It

Pink Floyd - Shine On Crazy Diamond

Jimi Hendrix - Hey Joe

Zep - STH

UFO - Only You Can Rock Me

[Andy R]

Good picks Duane. Gary Richrath was another player with great phrasing.

[charlie brown]

All good examples. I thought Richie Blackmore (in Deep Purple) had unique phrasing,

and "punctuation," prior to everyone else, copying him. I liked Mick Abrahams (Jethro

Tull, and Blodwyn Pig) phrasing and interesting (jazzy) note use, as well. Really great

"slide" players have great phrasing, too. I always loved George Harrison's unique, and

very melodic, slide work, for just one example.

 

CB

[Notes_Norton]

I don't think the ability to shred has anything to do with it. I can "shred" on the saxophone (it is a faster instrument), but I choose to keep the fast runs short, seldom and hopefully tastefully.

 

One of the greatest sax players of all time, Stan Getz hid his technical prowess behind lyrical and beautiful improvisational solo melodies. A burst of speed every now and then, but never oppressive. Richie Cole plays bebop and along with the deceased Charlie Parker can actually phrase well and make melody out of the whole thing. Others play strings of empty notes (I won't mention any names).

 

Someone mentioned Carlos Santana. If he did nothing else but improve Peter Green's "Black Magic Woman" solo, he would be a great guitarist in my book. Carlos usually sings a solo on his guitar.

 

Terry Kath played some pretty fast licks on Chicago's "25 or 6 to 4" but does it with good phrasing, good melodic content and IMHO tastefully.

 

Hotel California (Don & Joe) still turns me on.

 

Page, Beck and Clapton all sing through their guitar, as does Buddy Guy and so do the 3 Kings of the blues.

 

I could go on, there have been so many good points mentioned already, there is no sense repeating all of them.

 

It's great to have great chops, but without the ability to 'sing' through your instrument, you will never appeal to the majority of listeners.

 

Insights and incites by Notes ♫

[milod]

Sometimes I think "we" have a tendency to play for ourselves and to show what technically we do best rather than to consider, as was mentioned by Jax, that an audience may not have the slightest idea what's going on and just wants to hear good music they can understand.

 

m

[Sinner 13]

I agree completely. In fact that is how Gilmour creates a lot of his solos. He sings/scating them first and then puts a few of them on tape and mixes and matches. You can hear him doing this when he is playing the solo in Wish You Were Here.

 

I always told my students that one of the main things they need to learn how to do is sing/say what they are trying to play in their head or out loud. If you can't hear what your playing in your mind then your fingers are just going through the motions. In other words you are not playing what your hearing in your head, you are hearing what you are playing with your fingers. Big difference.

 

 

Andy

 

 

I had a music teacher in HS that said similar, "If you want to play it you have to be able to sing it" I still write that way to this day.

 

 

 

[charlie brown]

Sometimes I think "we" have a tendency to play for ourselves and to show what technically we do best rather than to consider, as was mentioned by Jax, that an audience may not have the slightest idea what's going on and just wants to hear good music they can understand.m

 

"That's the facts, Jack!"

 

CB

[zigzag]

I don't think the ability to shred has anything to do with it. I can "shred" on the saxophone (it is a faster instrument), but I choose to keep the fast runs short, seldom and hopefully tastefully.

 

One of the greatest sax players of all time, Stan Getz hid his technical prowess behind lyrical and beautiful improvisational solo melodies. A burst of speed every now and then, but never oppressive. Richie Cole plays bebop and along with the deceased Charlie Parker can actually phrase well and make melody out of the whole thing. Others play strings of empty notes (I won't mention any names).

 

You are absolutely right. The point I meant to make in my post was that you never hear shredding in Gilmour's music; the same is true for Hendrix, SRV, BB King, Clapton, or many other greats. Shredding is not in their vocabulary. You don't even need to be able to shred to be considered a great player if you have the ability to phrase well.

 

"If solo is a raw gem, improvisation is mining..." -Jaxson50

I like that.

[jaxson50]

I find saxophone and clarinet solos a great inspiration for guitar solos, Benny Goodman is a great example, not only his playing but all the great players he surrounded himself with.

Johnny Hodges, John Coltrane, Stan Getz, Parker and Rollins and one of the best Ornette Coleman the list is long.

The Saxophone has had a great influence in Rock, and we just lost one of the best. Clarence Clemons crafted some of the great rock solos ever.

Bobby Keys can not be over looked, he defined rock sax since 1956 when he toured with Bobby Vee.

Never heard of him? If you ever listened The Rolling Stones, Buddy Holly, Delaney & Bonnie, Leon Russell, Joe Cocker, Elvis Presley, Sheryl Crow, Warren Zevon, John Lennon, Harry Nilsson, George Harrison or Clapton you have heard Bobby Keys..

[AlanH]

This is an excellent thread and I loved being reminded of that Iommi solo.

 

Following on, some great blues, '70s rock and pop guitarists have been quoted for their ability to feel the music and translate it to their fingers through phrasing. However, if I were to mention Yngwie Malmsteen as having good phrasing, I dare say many would disagree. He plays with a high action which preserves tone and he shows great skill with his use of vibrato. The ultra fast runs are basically a result of trickery using alternate and sweep picking techniques yet that mass of notes within a scale run seems to make sense as a whole. The guy is guilty of going overboard on many occasions though and that illustrates the points being made above.

 

Anyway here's an instrumental by one of my fave bands which, despite it being of a genre which many regard as 'unmusical', I think is a beautiful track. The bursts of speed, alternating solos and harmonies are controlled and well mannered and they fit perfectly within the overall melody.

 

The question is, do you think there is good phrasing here?

 

Cue Broderick and Mustaine:

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C-5aPBPDS34

[SHO]

 

Cue Broderick and Mustaine:

 

 

I dunno... I don't hate it, but personally I'd pick anything I can remember that Marty Friedman, or Chris Poland for that matter, played for Megadeth over what I heard here when it comes to my idea of good phrasing. Marty's note choices, those weird bends and vibratos he does, and the articulation in his fast runs are far better examples of what good phrasing in a metal context mean to me. But we all like different things, that's the beauty of it.

[stein]

I know any solo I play is basically a melody I have in my head that kind of fits the chord structure that I'm playing. Simple can be effective, like in this jazzy blues backing track. The tendency in soloing for me is to cram notes and rush things so restraint is a good thing for me.

Here is a vid of what I'm talking about. It's been posted before. Please be kind to this guitar hack.

This is sweet tone. I was listening to it and Gwennie (here next to me) said "that is nice".

 

And, a good example as well for what you are saying. When you do pause enough to let the note sink in, it really takes effect.

[AlanH]

I dunno... I don't hate it, but personally I'd pick anything I can remember that Marty Friedman, or Chris Poland for that matter, played for Megadeth over what I heard here when it comes to my idea of good phrasing. Marty's note choices, those weird bends and vibratos he does, and the articulation in his fast runs are far better examples of what good phrasing in a metal context mean to me. But we all like different things, that's the beauty of it.

 

Yes, I agree that those two are by far the superior players. I was just wondering about whether extreme speed can be considered to be well phrased.

 

Poland has a very distinctive individual tone and I love Friedman's use of Vibrato and speed with such apparently slight finger movement. That shows the better technique, IMO.

 

Poland then Mustaine (intro solos):

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4WTweK_8QuQ

 

 

Friedman (solo @ 3:09):

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ujga-3p21xY

[Californiaman]

I find saxophone and clarinet solos a great inspiration for guitar solos, Benny Goodman is a great example, not only his playing but all the great players he surrounded himself with.

Johnny Hodges, John Coltrane, Stan Getz, Parker and Rollins and one of the best Ornette Coleman the list is long.

The Saxophone has had a great influence in Rock, and we just lost one of the best. Clarence Clemons crafted some of the great rock solos ever.

Bobby Keys can not be over looked, he defined rock sax since 1956 when he toured with Bobby Vee.

Never heard of him? If you ever listened The Rolling Stones, Buddy Holly, Delaney & Bonnie, Leon Russell, Joe Cocker, Elvis Presley, Sheryl Crow, Warren Zevon, John Lennon, Harry Nilsson, George Harrison or Clapton you have heard Bobby Keys..

 

I'm the same way.

Many top-notch guitarists do the same thing.

Trumpet and trombone have also been a driving inspiration.

[Duende]

Yes, I agree that those two are by far the superior players. I was just wondering about whether extreme speed can be considered to be well phrased.

 

Poland has a very distinctive individual tone and I love Friedman's use of Vibrato and speed with such apparently slight finger movement. That shows the better technique, IMO.

 

Poland then Mustaine (intro solos):

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4WTweK_8QuQ

 

 

Friedman (solo @ 3:09):

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ujga-3p21xY

 

cheers for sharing something I wouldn't had considered. Both examples were musically superb - I know Marty Friedman can do anything with his technique and I thought his solo explored a really wide tonal and musical pallet

 

Cheers will look this album up on Spotify

 

Matt

[Duende]

he didn't hide in slow because that was all he could do, he didn't hide in fast because it covered a lack of soul...he played what was precisely necessary for the music

he was just the amazing Django - my hero of melody!

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YPG1OnOrhis&feature=related

[Valeriy]

Agreed I think there is also a "middle" space especially in improv.

 

As far as playing and getting a feel for someones phrasing I believe you have to be able to hear it in your head to get it right. I guess I would compare it to a painting of the Mona Lisa that is done by someone that can really picture in their mind what it looks like and paint it compared to the result of someone doing it as a paint by numbers. They will both look like the Mona Lisa in some way but I guarantee that the person that can paint it from their mind's eye will have a lot more natural and blended look.

 

Hope that makes sense...

 

 

The example of Mono Liza is nevertheless an example of the thought over work made throughout several years. A good musician-guitarist can even surprise himself doing interesting, beautiful and expressive fragments in the process if he is warmed up in playing. Also, a successful partnership with a good accompanist helps a virtuoso, solo guitarist, for example, to do the unpredictable, but an excellent playing. And by the way, for any virtuoso - it's always been a problem to find a good accompanist accumulating his virtuoso playing because the good accompanist is usually a good virtuoso too.

[cookieman15061]

This is sweet tone. I was listening to it and Gwennie (here next to me) said "that is nice".

 

And, a good example as well for what you are saying. When you do pause enough to let the note sink in, it really takes effect.

 

Stein, give Gwennie a heartfelt thank you for me. lol

She has great taste.

[Notes_Norton]

Sometimes I think "we" have a tendency to play for ourselves and to show what technically we do best rather than to consider, as was mentioned by Jax, that an audience may not have the slightest idea what's going on and just wants to hear good music they can understand.

A good musician pays attention to the audience reaction to his/her music, and constantly adjusts his/her music to get the most favorable reaction. Music is a dialog, not a monolog. The audience has to be able to predict where you are going much of the time, but if they can predict it too often they get bored. Enter surprise. The audience also has to be surprised by where you are going, but if they can never predict where you are going they get bored. If they get bored, they quit listening.

 

There are things that work live that do not work on recordings, and vice versa. A good musician exploits that.

 

I find saxophone and clarinet solos a great inspiration for guitar solos, Benny Goodman is a great example, not only his playing but all the great players he surrounded himself with.

 

And as a lifelong sax player, I not only get inspiration from other sax players but also from guitarists, organists, trombonists, violinists, cellists, and especially vocalists.

 

The human voice is the first musical instrument, and when we "sing" a solo on our instruments, if we can emulate the nuances and phrasing of the human voice, we are sure to connect with the audience.

 

Technique is a tool, not the end in itself. Having great chops allows you to effortlessly express the musical inspiration that comes from your soul. But we must use those chops to serve the music. If we play music to serve the chops, we will lose the majority of listeners. This is why bebop an shredding have a much smaller listening base than more popular forms of music. Musicians can understand what the other musician is doing, but the audience cannot.

 

You can play for yourself, you can play for other musicians, or you can play for the general public. Practice enough and you will get the audience you asked for.

 

Insights and incites by Notes ♫

[Andy R]

Allow me to clarify my previous statement. I never said that what you hear in your head or what you can sing or say has to be slow, melodic and or bluesy. I even think that Yngwie's phrasing is very good. I still think you have to be able to at least here it in context in your mind to play it with the phrasing and feel (regardless of how fast the run is) or you won't have the same vibe.

 

Mustaine and Friedman are also great examples of this. I remember learning the solo for Symphony of Destruction and trying to nail the little nuances in it. Very cool.

 

I think Eric Johnson is another great example of someone who can shred while utilizing great phrasing. Neil Schon is another, Warren DeMartini, Randy Rhoads, Michel Wilton and Chris DeGarmo etc...

 

 

Andy

[saturn]

Good point Notes.

 

I remember reading many years ago Ritchie Blackmore saying that he likes to listen to great sax players and try to emlate that style of playing on the guitar. I tried to incorporate that style into my own playing after reading his comment. By only picking certain notes and hammering-on/pulling-off on others, and just putting a little more emphasis or accent on certain notes, I learned I can kind of mimic that saxaphone feel when doing lead runs. Certainly nowhere near the degree of a Ritchie Blackmore but....

[charlie brown]

To me, a lot of those nuances, are innate, in the player. One can never

quite "copy" (100%) those little things, in their playing, that make the

difference. You may get close, but that's what makes us all "unique."

(Good or bad...(Smile)) I think, too, it's important NOT to copy, exactly,

but keep the integrity, while being true to your own style, at the same time.

The greats, all do that, even in the more "ridgid" (if you like) Classical

music pieces. And, beyond great "chops," so much of what is "great" is personal

preference. Some "Great" players, that other's love, don't do a thing, for me,

and the reverse, is also true. So, yeah, it's beyond just technical excellence.

 

CB

[Duende]

Bob I hope I am using the term 'tonguing' correctly

 

To expand further on the saxaphone as an influence on the guitar; I believe it was Allan Holdsworth who said he developed his legato technique because while listening to Sax players, he noticed that the performers used combinations of tonguing every note and legato in their playing. He then went back to the guitar and reevaluated the way he played it, thinking that it sounded more musical with legato as the main way he played.

 

When saying why he doesn't pick every note, (to paraphrase) he said something along the lines of, "it just doesn't sound right, you wouldn't 'pick' every note on the saxaphone, it would sound too deliberate"

 

Matt

[AlanH]

Allow me to clarify my previous statement. I never said that what you hear in your head or what you can sing or say has to be slow, melodic and or bluesy. I even think that Yngwie's phrasing is very good. I still think you have to be able to at least here it in context in your mind to play it with the phrasing and feel (regardless of how fast the run is) or you won't have the same vibe.

 

Mustaine and Friedman are also great examples of this. I remember learning the solo for Symphony of Destruction and trying to nail the little nuances in it. Very cool.

 

I think Eric Johnson is another great example of someone who can shred while utilizing great phrasing. Neil Schon is another, Warren DeMartini, Randy Rhoads, Michel Wilton and Chris DeGarmo etc...

 

 

Andy

 

Hi Andy,

 

That would be me that focussed on the question of whether phrasing can still be considered to be good with speed play. I was just seeking opinions on what people thought.

 

I nearly brought De Gamo and Wilton in the equation too, although they're not necessarily considered to be among the super fast league. I just love their solos and the emotion they manage to bring in to them and how they connect so strongly with main melody or idea of the song. Wilton's solo to Speak is one of the finest examples of linking with the song as it starts with a slightly modified version of the main riff.

 

Good call!

 

Alan

[Rocky4]

Without a good vibrato, most solos would fall flat. Just my opinion.