bluesguitar65 Posted October 1, 2011 Share Posted October 1, 2011 Well, the Feds aren't letting up on Gibson. Click Here for more details. Federal authorities are pressuring Nashville-based Gibson Guitar to hand over an additional 25 bundles of Indian wood that the company allegedly planned to use in its famous guitars Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
damian Posted October 1, 2011 Share Posted October 1, 2011 I'm drawing a blank....... [confused] ... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
milod Posted October 1, 2011 Share Posted October 1, 2011 Here's where we get into the, "What does 'is' mean" sort of thing. I'd suggest that the woods are finished fingerboard blanks. They are not finished fingerboards. But they are finished products which are "fingerboard blanks." Now, who do we go after on this sort of messing with definitions of words? m Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
damian Posted October 1, 2011 Share Posted October 1, 2011 Many of my "Customer Service" questions routed to India and back are imported "unfinished"....... [flapper] .... What up with dat ???I'm callin' Kevin....................... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
This_Dying_Soul Posted October 1, 2011 Share Posted October 1, 2011 I still believe that the people enforcing the laws in the US are misinterpretting the laws in India. From everything I read on their law stating that wood exported to other countries must be "finished" by Indian workers, it does not specify that the wood must be completely worked into it's final form. It could very well mean that they will not ship logs... it must be milled into boards, or in Gibson's case fretboard blanks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LarryUK Posted October 1, 2011 Share Posted October 1, 2011 I'd call their bluff. I'd tell them that production is being moved to Canada. How many people do Gibson employ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
damian Posted October 1, 2011 Share Posted October 1, 2011 Next thing ya know, the Feds will show up and say, " We're here for a pickup." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bender 4 Life Posted October 1, 2011 Share Posted October 1, 2011 an exact quote of the comment I left on the articles facebook page.... "sadly typical that our govt is more worried about a few trees in INDIA (who has NEVER lodged a complaint against Gibson btw) than about keeping Americans working and American products affordable....I own SEVERAL Gibson guitars with ebony fretboards, so that makes me a criminal, right?.....yeah, come confiscate my guitars you a**holes" and THAT is exactly how I feel about it!!! Perservere Gibson....fight the good fight......Bless America, and American products(all 3 of them...oops,2 of....oops, 1.....wow, the American worker is history) R.I.P. The American product Murdered by beaurocracy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steven Tari Posted October 1, 2011 Share Posted October 1, 2011 Ah Comon Fella's. Everyone knows Obama is a Fender man. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jannusguy2 Posted October 1, 2011 Share Posted October 1, 2011 you spelled weep wrong. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
djroge1 Posted October 1, 2011 Share Posted October 1, 2011 I'd call their bluff. I'd tell them that production is being moved to Canada. How many people do Gibson employ? +1 or they could move production to Mexico Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
callen3615 Posted October 1, 2011 Share Posted October 1, 2011 ...and why do you think so many companies what to go overseas... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fl00dsm0k3 Posted October 1, 2011 Share Posted October 1, 2011 I'd call their bluff. I'd tell them that production is being moved to Canada. How many people do Gibson employ? somewhere i herd 1500 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fl00dsm0k3 Posted October 1, 2011 Share Posted October 1, 2011 Next thing ya know, the Feds will show up and say, " We're here for a pickup." they will probably raid them for the screws in the pickup Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aster1 Posted October 2, 2011 Share Posted October 2, 2011 Looks like a lot of comments disappeared overnite? Oh well, they prob. can't afford anymore heat coming their way. I'm still going to contact my Senators & Congressman however. Aster Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
milod Posted October 2, 2011 Share Posted October 2, 2011 I dunno if one can say "Gibson broke the law plain and simple." Were that the case, it would have been litigated soon after the first raid. A reading of the apparent charges really makes one wonder given that there are too many variables involved in questions of how Gibson gets wood from the import company - assuming that Gibson and not the import firm should be the folks under attack. I've purchased relatively large amounts of imported goods from wholesalers; if they might have been "illegal" in the nation where they were made for one reason or another, e.g., labor law, should those goods be taken by the government in a raid on my business, then held without proof they might be contrary to this or that law in another nation while I'm out my costs, paying lawyers and attempting to replace the goods with something else? Without a case law precedent in this sort of case, it's more obvious to me that at worst, Gibson's paperwork didn't make a bureaucrat happy and/or a disgruntled employee pointed out a way that friends could go after the company that doesn't fit their politics. Again, anyone who has been around law enforcement and litigation knows well that if "law" is pushed, anyone could be charged with criminal action ranging from littering to some other seldom-used section of traffic law. Confiscation itself might be considered punitive or a withholding of evidence. Once that's done, additional charges can emerge that the target must defend against and literally prove innocence which supposedly is contrary to the legal system shared by Anglophones. What is "finished wood?" A fingerboard "blank" is a finished product or not, depending on whether someone wants to go after a company or not, it seems to me. m Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BigKahune Posted October 2, 2011 Share Posted October 2, 2011 .... What is "finished wood?" A fingerboard "blank" is a finished product or not, depending on whether someone wants to go after a company or not, it seems to me. .... In this last raid, it's the thickness of the "finished" blank. The documents list the thickness under the legal limit for exporting "finished" blanks according to the law in India. Trouble is, according to FnW, the actual size of the blanks is thicker than listed, and thicker than the legal export limit of the law in India. Also, Gibson is not listed as the importer on the documents, LMI is. FnW is going after the "finished" blanks as illegal - too thick, and suspects that Gibson had something to do with the documents listing the wrong information so the company could "secretly" acquire the thicker blanks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
milod Posted October 2, 2011 Share Posted October 2, 2011 Again, one has "interpretation" as opposed to catching guys with guns and a bag full of money walking out of a bank after a bank robbery call. m Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BigKahune Posted October 2, 2011 Share Posted October 2, 2011 Again, one has "interpretation" as opposed to catching guys with guns and a bag full of money walking out of a bank after a bank robbery call. ... True to a point - FnW has the "oversized" wood (bag full of money). I've got a lot of questions. For starters, LMI is the importer of record, so what's happening to them? . And since property of a very sizable value has been seized, why hasn't the legal system forced FnW to make its case in court or return the property? . Some of the property has been in custody for two years, with no charges, fines or court action. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jannusguy2 Posted October 2, 2011 Share Posted October 2, 2011 Yall can hate as much as you want, I for one could care less. My point is that Gibson could have taken the lesser road and settled outside the public's eye yet they decided to get the Tea Party involved in what appears to be Gibsons fault for incorrect paperwork. I honestly believe their allowing politics and the Tea Freaks getting involved is going to backfire on Gibson especially since thats a not so popular group of people right now..... Only time will tell, on a person note to Henry and Co... You might want to consider hiring people who can read and fill out paperwork to the requirements as specified by the law. +1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Searcy Posted October 2, 2011 Share Posted October 2, 2011 My point is that Gibson could have taken the lesser road and settled outside the public's eye ... Explain how they could have done that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
This_Dying_Soul Posted October 2, 2011 Share Posted October 2, 2011 I don't profess to know who's guilty or not guilty but of the information that has been made public,I agree with Milod that there's a lot left open to interpretation. Also, if Gibson is in violation of any laws, what's the hold up with bringing charges against them? 2 years with no legal action of any kind? If they raided a drug dealer there would be at least an arrest to go with the seizure of contraband. And if this much time had passed before the trial you can bet someone's lawyer would be making a motion for dismissal on the grounds that their client has the right to a speedy trial and has been waiting to long. Either bring them up on charges if they've actually done something wrong or give them back their property if there is no charges to be laid. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
milod Posted October 3, 2011 Share Posted October 3, 2011 There's a game going on behind the scenes. I have that from a source I trust. I don't know what. I do know that IMHO, Gibson should have been charged or not. At this point it has the appearance of being a fishing expedition, but by somebody who's convinced there is a case that could be prosecuted - prosecuted if something else were found untoward. Again, the question has to do not with illegal trees, but a question of paperwork on the wood itself. With all the wood confiscated, where does that leave Gibson? As I recall the question has to do with roughly 1/8 of an inch in thickness of fingerboard blanks purchased from the importer, not directly from an overseas source. As for the wood itself, one oversize board and photos of others would be sufficient to make a case, if there is a case. Again, I've not only ordered, but literally picked up imported merchandise from a wholesaler that was the wrong size but was labeled "correctly." m Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stein Posted October 3, 2011 Share Posted October 3, 2011 No question there is a "game" going on. I have no such sources, but I have noticed that the nature of the accusations and the evidence against Gibson seem to be varied and inconsistent. From the affidavit to the statements made by the F&W blog as well as the press releases. It can either be a matter of improper labeling, to illegally harvesting, to hiding info, ect...there seems to be no CLEAR or consistent accusation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
milod Posted October 3, 2011 Share Posted October 3, 2011 My source indicated that there was a strong feeling Gibson did something wrong - but I got less certainty as to what. m Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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