dchristo Posted March 9, 2012 Share Posted March 9, 2012 Ummmmm no......Madi is spec'd for both the belly up bridge and the fingerboard on my Hummingbird TV. http://www2.gibson.com/Products/Acoustic-Instruments/Square-Shoulder/Gibson-Acoustic/Hummingbird-True-Vintage/Specs.aspx However the J45TV is spec'd with an unspecified 'Rosewood'. http://www2.gibson.com/Products/Acoustic-Instruments/Round-Shoulder/Gibson-Acoustic/J-45-True-Vintage/Specs.aspx this is what it says on the Gibson site Rosewood Fingerboard with Traditional Binding and Classic Dot Inlays The fingerboard of Gibson’s J-45 True Vintage is constructed from the highest grade Madagascar rosewood on earth, which is personally inspected and qualified by Gibson’s team of skilled experts before it enters the Gibson factories Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jerry K Posted March 9, 2012 Share Posted March 9, 2012 As Bob and others have tried to tell you, the website is out of date and often inaccurate to begin with. Welcome to Gibson! Specs are always changing (true throughout Gibson history) and information is fragmented and often wrong. That's why they reserve the right to change specs without notice. This is getting silly. Get over it. If you like it keep it, else send it back. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chipss36 Posted March 9, 2012 Author Share Posted March 9, 2012 the current topic is what is my fretboard made out of.....just so there is no ambiguity .... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dchristo Posted March 9, 2012 Share Posted March 9, 2012 the current topic is what is my fretboard made out of.....just so there is no ambiguity .... take a picture of the fretboard strait on up close Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chipss36 Posted March 9, 2012 Author Share Posted March 9, 2012 I am out of space to add pictures the ones I have in this thread I feel are important to keep up.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Morkolo Posted March 9, 2012 Share Posted March 9, 2012 I am out of space to add pictures the ones I have in this thread I feel are important to keep up.... Upload them to a photobucket or similar account and then copy the links to your pictures. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Del Nilppeznaf Posted March 9, 2012 Share Posted March 9, 2012 I agree with some, this post has become ridiculous. Chipss... your acting like you have been sold a fake heart... it's a guitar, your not happy with it and you have the option of returning it. Again you brought up a valid point that we had missed but again I go back to the fact that you were extremely happy with this guitar before receiving some negative responses here. It seems to me your now sniffing for some sort of 'compensation/ freebie' from Gibson ????????? Lars68 and JM have pointed out similar methods of guitar construction have been used by Gibson in times of need... and those models are extremely sought after because of HOW THEY SOUND! What do you want Gibson to do.. stop building guitars till they can resolve a material sourcing issue? I am over my bridge being 2 piece.. seriously... its a beautiful piece of engineered wood.... have a look at the pics... I never plan on selling it.. so its a non-issue.. the way it sounds and feels its whats important to me. Indecently my fingerboard is rosewood unless I'm very much mistaken.. and it is a better quality than the previous 2007 HB TV I had in my possession. I wish this post would die..lol but I couldn't help but reply. It has been interesting but honestly chipss... let it lie, your not happy with the guitar...return it and let someone else enjoy it! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dotneck Posted March 9, 2012 Share Posted March 9, 2012 Interesting thread. I was surprised to read about the laminated bridges...and even moreso when the laminated fretboard was revealed. And I'm disappointed in Gibson's strategy of offering these parts on the TV models which seem to be marketed as replications of vintage guitars. If these parts were introduced on standard models...I'd have less objections. Jeremy's response seems like it was crafted by the PR/Marketing committee. At least there is no lack of guitars on the used market for those folks who are not satisfied with the changes from Bozeman and still want a gibson. And for those of you who think this thread should be closed and this discussion is boring. Just wait...this is just the beginning and it will go on...and on....and on...and on.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chipss36 Posted March 9, 2012 Author Share Posted March 9, 2012 the current topic is what is my fretboard made out of.....just so there is no ambiguity ....http://www.flickr.com/photos/chippster/6966334925/in/photostream/lightbox/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EuroAussie Posted March 9, 2012 Share Posted March 9, 2012 Looks like a beautiful, perfectly made J-45TV to me ! the current topic is what is my fretboard made out of.....just so there is no ambiguity ....http://www.flickr.com/photos/chippster/6966334925/in/photostream/lightbox/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hairy Dave Posted March 9, 2012 Share Posted March 9, 2012 the current topic is what is my fretboard made out of.....just so there is no ambiguity .... Hi Chip, I was pleased to see someone from Gibson chipping in. Hopefully their comments went some way to appeasing you. I see the topic has moved on slightly to the material of your fretboard - does that mean you are happy with the build/build techniques? Out of curiosity, are you keeping the guitar? If Gibson confirm that the fretboard is anything other than Madagascar Rosewood - will you be happy to keep it. I'm not quite sure what your intentions are. Lovely guitar BTW - the pics are great. Health to enjoy! HD Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chipss36 Posted March 9, 2012 Author Share Posted March 9, 2012 who knows, I have plenty of time to look it over, I will reiterate what I have said before, I know my options on a return and the time window...for sure do not need another post on that I am paying for it, I will make that choice, within the time line I have available, if thats not ok with some you thats cool with me too.... please rant about that else where... I am still in shock, about the fretboard, about people defending gibson and attaching me... giving me advice I did not ask for,not believing what I have said, even with photos...or with a clear map on how to pull up info on gibbons own site. or the thought that I have no right to know what this guitar is made from? I would not be asking if things had not changed like they did... one reply from gibson and many many posts.... a reply that pointed me to the tone wood paper I had already read many times before I purchased this guitar, it did not answer the question... what is the fretboard on the J45-TV, ? gibbons website lists maddy.... I will just keep leading the horse to water....over and over, one day he just may be thirsty... Hi Chip, I was pleased to see someone from Gibson chipping in. Hopefully their comments went some way to appeasing you. I see the topic has moved on slightly to the material of your fretboard - does that mean you are happy with the build/build techniques? Out of curiosity, are you keeping the guitar? If Gibson confirm that the fretboard is anything other than Madagascar Rosewood - will you be happy to keep it. I'm not quite sure what your intentions are. Lovely guitar BTW - the pics are great. Health to enjoy! HD Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gruffchris Posted March 9, 2012 Share Posted March 9, 2012 Hey, First off i don't want to annoy anyone, to much......lol. Well I spent a few hours last night reading through this topic whilst playing a little poker. There are some interesting views from all sides. I am a member of a few forums(non guitar) and I do find that there can be a pack mentality sometimes. Especially in the more niche markets. I think that these guitars are expensive, and people dream about them for so long, that they invest a little of them self's in it. so by bringing the "gibson" name into disrepute some people will see that as an attack on them? Like I said I see it all the time with different product on different forums. Having said that it's good to see some of the advanced members trying to see both sides. What does it matter if he keeps it or sends it back, if it was me it would be straight back, the bridge ain't a problem, but the neck, yuk. The chappie with the new gibson has every right to come on here and ask what the hell's going on. But it's a forum so an answer from gibson will be short, well thought out and vauge, if any come at all.(this is not from my experience here, but other forums). But as he's said he has bought a new guitar thought that is **** hot, then bride then the neck etc...... I can not remember who was talking about yamaha's saying his f730 was laminate and the ll16 sounded so much better cause it was solid. Well that's kind of relevant to this topic. I used to own an LL16 and the neck is 3 ply mahogany, so the difference you heard in sound came from else where, maybe the back and sides?. The LL16 is a great guitar. About sending the guitar back. I have just bought a new gibson too(unplayed), i also spent a little more for piece of mind. What i thought was if it doesn't blow me away I was going to drive 200+miles to the shop and try all the guitars they have both gibo and others and come home with something good. It might cost a day of your life and a lot in gas but for something worth 3000, it's worth it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hairy Dave Posted March 9, 2012 Share Posted March 9, 2012 who knows, I have plenty of time to look it over, I will reiterate what I have said before, I know my options on a return and the time window...for sure do not need another post on that I am paying for it, I will make that choice, within the time line I have available, if thats not ok with some you thats cool with me too.... please rant about that else where... I am still in shock, about the fretboard, about people defending gibson and attaching me... giving me advice I did not ask for,not believing what I have said, even with photos...or with a clear map on how to pull up info on gibbons own site. or the thought that I have no right to know what this guitar is made from? I would not be asking if things had not changed like they did... one reply from gibson and many many posts.... a reply that pointed me to the tone wood paper I had already read many times before I purchased this guitar, it did not answer the question... what is the fretboard on the J45-TV, ? gibbons website lists maddy.... I will just keep leading the horse to water....over and over, one day he just may be thirsty... Hi Chip, I know you're well aware about returns etc, but as you say... you're in shock about the fretboard. Have you contacted Gibson Customer Service directly regarding it? I'm pretty sure they will answer your question much faster in an official capacity. I think you're pretty much chasing your tail waiting on an answer in this thread. Let's assume that your fretboard is not Madagascar Rosewood (and Gibson confirm that). What difference does it make? You bought a guitar that was not properly described on a web page - there are millions of out of date pages on the internet. Yes, Gibson should be more aware of what they have online - but none of that is legally binding (I work in sales and marketing). Hopefully my post doesn't read as an attack - it is not. I have no vested interest in defending Gibson either. I enjoy their products and nothing more. Dave Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chipss36 Posted March 9, 2012 Author Share Posted March 9, 2012 its not this or that dave.....its this and this and this.....and that....or what ever... I will be taking my time. my timeline may differ for others. again, I am asking what the fingerboard is make of, its a simple question, and not an unreasonable one..... Hi Chip, I know you're well aware about returns etc, but as you say... you're in shock about the fretboard. Have you contacted Gibson Customer Service directly regarding it? I'm pretty sure they will answer your question much faster in an official capacity. I think you're pretty much chasing your tail waiting on an answer in this thread. Let's assume that your fretboard is not Madagascar Rosewood (and Gibson confirm that). What difference does it make? You bought a guitar that was not properly described on a web page - there are millions of out of date pages on the internet. Yes, Gibson should be more aware of what they have online - but none of that is legally binding (I work in sales and marketing). Hopefully my post doesn't read as an attack - it is not. I have no vested interest in defending Gibson either. I enjoy their products and nothing more. Dave Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hairy Dave Posted March 9, 2012 Share Posted March 9, 2012 its not this or that dave.....its this and this and this.....and that....or what ever... I will be taking my time. my timeline may differ for others. again, I am asking what the fingerboard is make of, its a simple question, and not an unreasonable one..... You must have the patience of a saint! I'm pretty relaxed about most things but once a list of bugs gets to this and this and this.....and that....or what ever... I'd have thrown in the towel. I don't think you're being unreasonable at all Chip - it's a fair question. I guess I'm takin a black and white view on the issues. Good luck and God Bless, Dave Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hogeye Posted March 9, 2012 Share Posted March 9, 2012 Here is the deal.When the feds raided the Nashville plant they made it impossible for Gibson Montana to get fretboard blanks shipped to them from India. The way Gibson was getting the fretboards was as blanks and the Indian Gov. has an obscure restriction that says it can only ship parts. The thickness of the blanks being shipped was to thick to be a part. Gibson had to make laminated fretboards with the inventory on hand until the situauton can be resolved. It has been resolved to everyones satisfaction. Gibson is getting fretboard blanks shipped to them now. The wood supplier has agreed to cut the blanks thinner so they can be called fretboards. The lamination fretboards will no longer exist. The bridges are also laminated for the very same reasons. They are thicker so there will be a bit of an adjustment as they are having trouble getting them to ship the wood as finished pieces. The wood supplier isn't in the manufacturing business so it looks like Gibson will have to find a manufacturer to make the bridges in India to be able to get them shipped. They have not come to terms with this as yet so it may be a while before they can ship one piece bridges again. Gibson wants to make all the parts in Montana and the feds are not going to permit that. Your tax dollars at work folks. This is not some cost cutting scheme. It's just the result of the current government's war with Gibson. I will add just a twist. Martin is having trouble getting enough Ebony to make it's fretboards so they are using a material similar to the stuff used to make bowling balls. This is not on all models but it just underscores the issue of wood supply. They have been doing this for a couple of years now. When talking to the folks at Gibson this morning they were taken aback that this would be an issue. They are so busy with all the red tape and procurement issues they just didn't think to issue any announcement. This was an oversite not an intention to decieve. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spot Posted March 9, 2012 Share Posted March 9, 2012 Here is the deal.When the feds raided the Nashville plant they made it impossible for Gibson Montana to get fretboard blanks shipped to them from India. The way Gibson was getting the fretboards was as blanks and the Indian Gov. has an obscure restriction that says it can only ship parts. The thickness of the blanks being shipped was to thick to be a part. Gibson had to make laminated fretboards with the inventory on hand until the situauton can be resolved. It has been resolved to everyones satisfaction. Gibson is getting fretboard blanks shipped to them now. The wood supplier has agreed to cut the blanks thinner so they can be called fretboards. The lamination fretboards will no longer exist. The bridges are also laminated for the very same reasons. They are thicker so there will be a bit of an adjustment as they are having trouble getting them to ship the wood as finished pieces. The wood supplier isn't in the manufacturing business so it looks like Gibson will have to find a manufacturer to make the bridges in India to be able to get them shipped. They have not come to terms with this as yet so it may be a while before they can ship one piece bridges again. Gibson wants to make all the parts in Montana and the feds are not going to permit that. Your tax dollars at work folks. This is not some cost cutting scheme. It's just the result of the current government's war with Gibson. I will add just a twist. Martin is having trouble getting enough Ebony to make it's fretboards so they are using a material similar to the stuff used to make bowling balls. This is not on all models but it just underscores the issue of wood supply. They have been doing this for a couple of years now. When talking to the folks at Gibson this morning they were taken aback that this would be an issue. They are so busy with all the red tape and procurement issues they just didn't think to issue any announcement. This was an oversite not an intention to decieve. ..Thanks for that update Hogeye which really helps shed some light on all this! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
j45nick Posted March 9, 2012 Share Posted March 9, 2012 Here is the deal. I will add just a twist. Martin is having trouble getting enough Ebony to make it's fretboards so they are using a material similar to the stuff used to make bowling balls. This is not on all models but it just underscores the issue of wood supply. They have been doing this for a couple of years now. When talking to the folks at Gibson this morning they were taken aback that this would be an issue. They are so busy with all the red tape and procurement issues they just didn't think to issue any announcement. This was an oversite not an intention to decieve. Thanks, Hogeye. Figured you would get to the bottom. It's pretty much the scenario that I envisioned. Lacey and its predecessors, though well-intentioned, have been a pain in the butt for decades. Back when I was building boats, we had to import "finished" teak "product" to use in boatbuilding. The overseas "finishing" for the stuff I was using consisted of cutting a 1" half-lap joint in the end of every plank, no matter how large, and putting two small holes through the end of the half-lap so that the plank could be "fastened" directly to a boat. Never mind that some of these planks were 2" thick, 12" wide, and 20' long, and typically ended up as 15% sawdust and 85% finished wood, little of which had anything to do with the orginal teak board. The Thai government actually specified the degree of finishing required, just as the Indian government does with rosewood exports. This is not a new thing, so don't blame it on current politics. We were dealing with exactly the same issues 20 years ago. The intention, of course, was that the country of origin would husband the resource to maintain a viable industry over time, and the domestic artisan woodworking industry(at the producer level overseas) would generate "local" employment. It has never really worked properly through either Democratic or Republican administrations. And then, on top of that, we have CITES to complicate life. But I'm not going to touch that one, as it's like throwing gasoline on a burning fire here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hairy Dave Posted March 9, 2012 Share Posted March 9, 2012 Hogeye, in this case I believe that Chips fretboard is supposed to be made of Madagascar rosewood not Indian rosewood as affected by the Lacey Act/recent raids. Perhaps their supply of MR has been affected also? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hogeye Posted March 9, 2012 Share Posted March 9, 2012 Hogeye, in this case I believe that Chips fretboard is supposed to be made of Madagascar rosewood not Indian rosewood as affected by the Lacey Act/recent raids. Perhaps their supply of MR has been affected also? Gibson does not use Madagascar Rosewood. They suspended the use a couple of years ago. This was to comply with the Cities act and Herny's involvement in the Rainforest alliance and other conservation groups. If their web page states Madagascar then they need to update it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hairy Dave Posted March 9, 2012 Share Posted March 9, 2012 Gibson does not use Madagascar Rosewood. They suspended the use a couple of years ago. This was to comply with the Cities act and Herny's involvement in the Rainforest alliance and other conservation groups. If their web page states Madagascar then they need to update it. I thought that was the case Hogeye (that the site was not up to date). I wasn't sure about the MR situation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BigKahune Posted March 9, 2012 Share Posted March 9, 2012 .... When talking to the folks at Gibson this morning they were taken aback that this would be an issue. They are so busy with all the red tape and procurement issues they just didn't think to issue any announcement. This was an oversite not an intention to decieve. Thanks very much for taking the time to get into some of the aspects of this issue. Some of us were really surprised that the laminated parts appeared without anyone knowing about their use and why there was a change, although some of us realized it had something to do with post raids availability of some of the wood species. Hopefully in the future, if changes have to be made, like going from solid wood (not laminated) to laminated wood, Gibson will think about announcing changes. It should be expected that when spending large sums of money, some buyers might be picky about what materials they fairly expected to be used, and how they fairly expected a certain guitar to be built. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ParlourMan Posted March 9, 2012 Share Posted March 9, 2012 Chips, no offense, but we're now unclear what it is you actually want, you say you don't need another post regarding the return but what else is left to say, you're not happy with the website info, you're not happy with the response from Jeremy, you're not happy with many posts agreeing with you regarding the necks, it really does seem to me that you're looking for some sorts of compensation/freebie scenario. There's an awful lot of to'ing and fro'ing in your posts, as for "my returned laminate guitar then being someone else's problem", I find that a thin argument, to be explicit are you going to keep the guitar to save some other poor soul from buying a laminate guitar? You may not want another post about returning it, but what else is there to say? Persisting with an argument that starts to lose focus only harms the argument in the long run, return it, buy something else, if you've been soured on Gibson buy something else that ticks your boxes, I really can't see where the thread has left to go... Yes, we've been made aware of an issue that many find 'less then perfect', I don't even disagree with you here, but the mileage left in the thread os running out, after the parts about not returning to save someone else I kind of lost sympathy for you as it's quite an unrealistic stance to take. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chipss36 Posted March 9, 2012 Author Share Posted March 9, 2012 this post and many of your others are of no value to me or any other reader on the board. and has nothing to do with getting to to bottom of how this guitar is built... it is my persestance and overlooking of posts like this one that has lead to truth... if you can't see that...well I don't know what to tell you dude... I belive you have personally attacked me in your posts here, I will not do the same back, I will leave that for the readers to go back and read some of your posts in this thread... have a great day. Chips, no offense, but we're now unclear what it is you actually want, you say you don't need another post regarding the return but what else is left to say, you're not happy with the website info, you're not happy with the response from Jeremy, you're not happy with many posts agreeing with you regarding the necks, it really does seem to me that you're looking for some sorts of compensation/freebie scenario. There's an awful lot of to'ing and fro'ing in your posts, as for "my returned laminate guitar then being someone else's problem", I find that a thin argument, to be explicit are you going to keep the guitar to save some other poor soul from buying a laminate guitar? You may not want another post about returning it, but what else is there to say? Persisting with an argument that starts to lose focus only harms the argument in the long run, return it, buy something else, if you've been soured on Gibson buy something else that ticks your boxes, I really can't see where the thread has left to go... Yes, we've been made aware of an issue that many find 'less then perfect', I don't even disagree with you here, but the mileage left in the thread os running out, after the parts about not returning to save someone else I kind of lost sympathy for you as it's quite an unrealistic stance to take. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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