Jerry K Posted June 30, 2012 Share Posted June 30, 2012 OK I see, you bought a used 1996 Cherry finish Hummingbird described here. This '96 instrument had a pristine pickguard but you managed to rub the paint off in two months. Well, the way I look at it is any guitar that gets a lot of play time is going to show considerable wear, at least the way I play, and I'm pretty sedate compared to some. I have a guitar I bought new in 1970 and it has dings, cracks, discolored areas, divots in the fretboard, the finish is seriously forked up, needs a neck reset, you name it... That's what happens to a guitar if you play it a lot. It's normal. Guitar entropy is like a law of nature. Resistance is futile. Possibly you should just admit to yourself that you have some collector genes in you, buy another new or minty Hummingbird and keep it pristine. You know just take it out of the case now and then to admire. Meanwhile putting all the mileage on your daily player version of the same guitar. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jack6849 Posted June 30, 2012 Share Posted June 30, 2012 I went from an SJ-200 True Vintage to a Western Classic Pre-War 200 because the flower inlays on the pickguard of the TV started wearing off almost immediately and the Western Classic's pickguard doesn't have them. I also preferred the WC's pearl block fretboard inlays to the crowns on the SJ-200, and I love the Western Classic's flowerpot headstock inlay. Fortunately for me, Dave's Guitar Shop in La Crosse had special-ordered a Western Classic Pre-War 200 in a 3-color "Tri-burst" finish with Flame Maple sides and back. It is a beautiful guitar, and without the pickguard deterioration issues, my obsessive-compulsive disorder is pretty well under control. I really don't remember vintage J-200 pickguards losing their inlays as fast as these new ones seem to, but maybe they did. My solution was the Western Classic Pre-War 200, and I love this model. Really gives the impression of being a "flattop L-5". A cross between a Gibson Jazz guitar and a J-200. Not cheap, but very cool. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ParlourMan Posted June 30, 2012 Share Posted June 30, 2012 Mines hasn't worn off as yet, I must play more!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jerry K Posted June 30, 2012 Share Posted June 30, 2012 Hey let's see some pics of those well-worn pickguards! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GuitarLight Posted July 2, 2012 Share Posted July 2, 2012 hello boys, sorry to bring this topic up once again but as some of you might remember about a month or so ago I had sold my 1996 vintage burst hummingbird to get the much more desired cherry burst. the guitar I got was in immaculate condition including the pick guard. So, here we are less than 2 months later and what do we have? The design is already coming off!!! As I recall some had said to me dont worry about the design you have the guitar. Well, I really do understand that but, some like myself were drawn to this particular guitar because of this design as well the sound and overall look. It just really pisses me off that one of the main aspects of this guitar could be made so (hate to say) cheap. Even on some of the newer ones its still an ongoing problem. I just do not understand this. They make an anti scratch one, just put it on all of the newer ones and be done with it. For the money that is spent on this guitar, this should not be an issue now or never should have been an issue. And yes Im the obsessive type that will have to eventually fork over more money to get a new guard. It just bothers the hell out of me, spend that type of money and to have something that should not be an issue become an issue is realy stupid. Again, I realize some dont have an issue with this problem but I for one do. I wish I was able to just turn the other cheek but it just bothers me. Sorry guys, I just had to get that out. I understand your pick guard issue.My $3800 Gibson SJ-200 did the same thing. I was disgusted. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rar Posted July 2, 2012 Share Posted July 2, 2012 ... I don't buy Gibsons anymore because of quality issues. ... Odd that you read this forum, then. :) Still, thaks for posting. I was starting to worry when none of y'all showed up to add your -2 cents. -- Bob R Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EuroAussie Posted July 2, 2012 Share Posted July 2, 2012 You stopped buying Gibsons because of a fading pickguard ? Thats beyond comical. I understand your pick guard issue.My $3800 Gibson SJ-200 did the same thing. I was discusted. They need give no explanation for it. It's cheap work at my expense. I don't buy Gibsons anymore because of quality issues. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
E-minor7 Posted July 2, 2012 Share Posted July 2, 2012 I understand your pick guard issue.My $3800 Gibson SJ-200 did the same thing. I was discusted. They need give no explanation for it. It's cheap work at my expense. I don't buy Gibsons anymore because of quality issues. Hello GuitarLight - Rather dramatic entrance here. Kind of "Hey everybody, like to introduce myself, I'm off. . . ". Or maybe not. You can say quite a lot on these pages. They live and stay healthy by the breath between pros and cons - pos./neg. - hap/sad - fulfilled/disappointed etc. Must be said most of us seem to like our G's. I for one have daily pleasures behind those Bozeman/Kalamazoo 6-strings. A fanboy doesn't need to be a fanclown. No more Gibsons in your camp, , , then what next. And which do you play besides the 200 ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guth Posted July 3, 2012 Share Posted July 3, 2012 I can certainly relate to those wanting to vent. I've owned a number of guitars over the years other than Gibsons including a couple of Collings guitars. Gibson is charging Collings like prices for many of the guitars mentioned here and I'm sorry, but the build quality simply can't compare. I've owned 6 Bozeman Gibsons, including the 3 I still have and if you were look closely at them you could find flaws in each and every one. You would be hard pressed to find any such flaws in the two Collings I owned, not to mention other smaller builders that Gibson competes with now from a pricing standpoint. Basically, when it comes to the higher end Gibson models, your paying boutique prices so you would expect the attention to detail to equal those of the other, smaller builders. But that's just not what Gibson is about based on my experiences. I purchased the Gibsons I own first and foremost for their tone. No other builder can seemingly replicate what these guitars have when it comes to the tone I desire. And while they're certainly not perfect from a build standpoint, I still find beauty in each of them, flaws & all because their designs are just so spot on to my eye. Nevertheless, the problems are there. For example, if someone points out the mess at the end of the fretboard found on so many Gibsons there's simply no good response in my mind. While some might shrug their shoulders and say it's just leftover buffing compound, my first thought is that if you're going to charge people thousands of dollars for an instrument, then put in the extra bit of effort to clean that crap up. If you don't have enough respect for your craft or your product to put in that extra little bit of effort then don't be surprised when people complain about it. The same goes for crappy inlay work on headstocks, and a host of other items that many here will quickly come up with excuses for. So, while I'm a Gibson fan, I get why others might not be. Gibson acoustics are priced in the range of some very finely built instruments and given that, I can understand where many would find them to be disappointing. It is what it is. None of that changes the fact that no other guitar can seemingly match the tone of a good Gibson. In the end that's my top priority, but others simply don't feel the same. So vent, make excuses, apologize or do what whatever else is needed depending on which camp you're in when it comes to this topic. But in the end, hopefully each and every one of us involved in such discussions can still get back to making enjoyable music with our Gibsons. If not, it simply might not be the right guitar for you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jerry K Posted July 3, 2012 Share Posted July 3, 2012 I can certainly relate to those wanting to vent. I've owned a number of guitars over the years other than Gibsons including a couple of Collings guitars. Gibson is charging Collings like prices for many of the guitars mentioned here and I'm sorry, but the build quality simply can't compare. I've owned 6 Bozeman Gibsons, including the 3 I still have and if you were look closely at them you could find flaws in each and every one. You would be hard pressed to find any such flaws in the two Collings I owned, not to mention other smaller builders that Gibson competes with now from a pricing standpoint. Basically, when it comes to the higher end Gibson models, your paying boutique prices so you would expect the attention to detail to equal those of the other, smaller builders. But that's just not what Gibson is about based on my experiences. I purchased the Gibsons I own first and foremost for their tone. No other builder can seemingly replicate what these guitars have when it comes to the tone I desire. And while they're certainly not perfect from a build standpoint, I still find beauty in each of them, flaws & all because their designs are just so spot on to my eye. Nevertheless, the problems are there. For example, if someone points out the mess at the end of the fretboard found on so many Gibsons there's simply no good response in my mind. While some might shrug their shoulders and say it's just leftover buffing compound, my first thought is that if you're going to charge people thousands of dollars for an instrument, then put in the extra bit of effort to clean that crap up. If you don't have enough respect for your craft or your product to put in that extra little bit of effort then don't be surprised when people complain about it. The same goes for crappy inlay work on headstocks, and a host of other items that many here will quickly come up with excuses for. So, while I'm a Gibson fan, I get why others might not be. Gibson acoustics are priced in the range of some very finely built instruments and given that, I can understand where many would find them to be disappointing. It is what it is. None of that changes the fact that no other guitar can seemingly match the tone of a good Gibson. In the end that's my top priority, but others simply don't feel the same. So vent, make excuses, apologize or do what whatever else is needed depending on which camp you're in when it comes to this topic. But in the end, hopefully each and every one of us involved in such discussions can still get back to making enjoyable music with our Gibsons. If not, it simply might not be the right guitar for you. Another guy plays the apologist card. It's very tiresome. Because it ends all discussion. To put somebody in this kind of box is to dismiss anything they might say (you only think that way because you are white, because you are black, because you are an apologist). By the way your supposed examples are wrong. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EuroAussie Posted July 3, 2012 Share Posted July 3, 2012 Here we go again ... lordy .. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ParlourMan Posted July 3, 2012 Share Posted July 3, 2012 They make the guitars to the agreed specs and features list, It's as simple as that. There was obviously significant enough interest in the particular recipe for TV models with engraved and painted guards to merit a full line being created and subsequently sold. Just as many might prefer the paint not to fade, I'm quite happy that mines will rub off and vintage up as I play it... a case of horses for courses, if the standard model with the other style of the guard does not suit you can elect to have one built in the custom shop to specs you do like/prefer, what more does anyone want? As these conversations have started and abruptly ended before because of people's backs going up and the claws coming out, I thought it might be quite amusing to point out I have been called both a troll and an apologist, strange huh? To clarify, I offer no man an apology for choosing guitars that suit me and that I like to play, in my case I prefer Gibson acoustics for the type of music I play. I don't need agreement nor validation for my choices, I wonder what box that puts me in this week. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hairy Dave Posted July 3, 2012 Share Posted July 3, 2012 I thought it might be quite amusing to point out I have been called both a troll and an apologist, strange huh? PM does that make you a Trollapologist? Sounds like a cool job ;-) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ParlourMan Posted July 3, 2012 Share Posted July 3, 2012 PM does that make you a Trollapologist? Sounds like a cool job ;-) Maybe I'm two people and I don't know it.. I'll have to search for a forum for this, this could be an even bigger issue than the paint on my scratchplate Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hairy Dave Posted July 3, 2012 Share Posted July 3, 2012 I don't think I would mind either way about the pick guard. It would be nice to retain the look forever but part of the charm is when your guitar starts to show wear - no two guitars are exactly the same and I like that. If someone were to give me any version of a Hummingbird today i'd be delighted haha. In saying that, I'm not keen on the hummingbird pro/artist editions (on Thomann) as they have plain guards. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blindboygrunt Posted July 3, 2012 Share Posted July 3, 2012 Another guy plays the apologist card. It's very tiresome. Because it ends all discussion. To put somebody in this kind of box is to dismiss anything they might say (you only think that way because you are white, because you are black, because you are an apologist). By the way your supposed examples are wrong. i know neither what is meant by an apologist , an trolls luve under bridges no? what do you think of the pickguards jerry ? if you had a hummingbird , would you be upset that it faded ? or would you kinda like that look ?? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fortyearspickn Posted July 3, 2012 Share Posted July 3, 2012 Yes. Trolls live under bridges and I don't understand the apologist reference either. But, since the topic of worn off pickguard paint is, well ...Worn! I would like to be the first to welcome Guitarlight to our forum!!!! I am sorry you had a bad experience with your SJ200. As I've observed - the paint is sometimes a little lighter or thinner in places on new guitars hanging in shops. Possibly the paint was like this and you didn't notice until you had your $3,800 purchase at home? So it might not have been an egregious quality issue - not to apologize for Gibson of course, since we love it when some one joins our forum and on that same day brings forward such a great example of what Guth so eloquently described as 'crap'. Guitarlight, I am sure since your paint wore off in 2 months ( "same problem as Iwalktheline's") you were able to return it under warranty? I am not suggesting a good return policy should take the place of poor workmanship. We all know and take comfort in the fact that in the long term, a company will go out of business if they employ that formula! So - thanks Iwalktheline for starting up a really great thread. Since you knew we were powerless to fix your problem (as we were last time) and that this topic has been discussed ad nauseum, and you described it yourself as a Rant - I hope you achieved your objective us having some folks here feel your pain. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bobouz Posted July 3, 2012 Share Posted July 3, 2012 Yes. Trolls live under bridges and I don't understand the apologist reference either. But, since the topic of worn off pickguard paint is, well ...Worn! I would like to be the first to welcome Guitarlight to our forum!!!! I am sorry you had a bad experience with your SJ200. As I've observed - the paint is sometimes a little lighter or thinner in places on new guitars hanging in shops. Possibly the paint was like this and you didn't notice until you had your $3,800 purchase at home? So it might not have been an egregious quality issue - not to apologize for Gibson of course, since we love it when some one joins our forum and on that same day brings forward such a great example of what Guth so eloquently described as 'crap'. Guitarlight, I am sure since your paint wore off in 2 months ( "same problem as Iwalktheline's") you were able to return it under warranty? I am not suggesting a good return policy should take the place of poor workmanship. We all know and take comfort in the fact that in the long term, a company will go out of business if they employ that formula! So - thanks Iwalktheline for starting up a really great thread. Since you knew we were powerless to fix your problem (as we were last time) and that this topic has been discussed ad nauseum, and you described it yourself as a Rant - I hope you achieved your objective us having some folks here feel your pain. Forty - You are a scholar and a gentleman. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rar Posted July 3, 2012 Share Posted July 3, 2012 So, while I'm a Gibson fan, I get why others might not be. I think everybody gets that. And we get why Gibson fans come here to make constructive suggestions, or even just to vent their frustrations. What we don't get is why people who obviously come here only to create a fuss think that they're going to fool anyone. Even though they apparently do. :) -- Bob R Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JuanCarlosVejar Posted July 3, 2012 Share Posted July 3, 2012 Odd that you read this forum, then. :) Still, thaks for posting. I was starting to worry when none of y'all showed up to add your -2 cents. -- Bob R Bob, I laughed to this =D the -2 to be specific JC Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rar Posted July 3, 2012 Share Posted July 3, 2012 Trolls live under bridges ... It's times like this when I miss the Good Ol' Days on the proto-Internet of 30 years ago, when "troll" meant what the JARGON.TXT said it meant and that was that. No anonymity, and plenty of merciless public ridiculing of cluelessness! (Tho' never the clueless: everyone starts off clueless, but most everyone figures things out given enough encouragement.) -- Bob R P.S. Hey, you kids!! Get off my lawn!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JuanCarlosVejar Posted July 3, 2012 Share Posted July 3, 2012 I have to be honest ... hell check the vintage gibsons they have worn guards ... I don't think Rev.Gary Davis or Johnny Cash or Elvis complained about the paint coming off the guards ... isn't that what is suppose to happen to guitars ? even if they are 2 months old the technique that is being used might be the real factor to consider ... where is the strumming hand being placed ??? .It's not that GIbson all have flaws ... guitars will get old sooner or later and I don't know if I would want and old guitar without dings and worn down guards ... I mean GIbson is Gibson and COllings is COllings ... and the gibson of 2012 is not the gibson of the 40's and 50's . if they lack Quality to some people too bad ... but I really think that if you want a new guitar forever buy the best one you can find as far as fit and finish go and keep it in a case forever =D JC Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iwalktheline Posted July 3, 2012 Author Share Posted July 3, 2012 boys, this topic was not meant to start wars, it was started because in the last 6 months or so I have had the same issue with gibson hummingbirds, the pick guards. Love them or hate them, im not asking that. I just find it very troublesome that I had this issue twice. I love gibson guitars (yes even my norlin era one) but, it just grinds my gears (family guy reference)to have to deal with the same issue twice. No matter what I say, some will take issue, i say whatever to that. the topic was labeled, pick guard vent. It was just me realizing that after i shell out my hard earned money on the guitar that i now have to shell out more for another guard then more to have somebody put it on. a person who spends that much on a guitar and in less than 2 months one of the distictive features is already coming off, in my opinion has a right to vent. i value the opinions of a lot of people on here and some have helped me out in times of question. it was a vent, nothing more. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jerry K Posted July 4, 2012 Share Posted July 4, 2012 It's ok. I've enjoyed the topic. Every once in a while we need to talk about the guards somewhat exhaustively here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rar Posted July 4, 2012 Share Posted July 4, 2012 ... it was a vent, nothing more. Seriously, I think everybody got that and was fine with it. The problem starts when people turn the discussion toward suggesting that Gibson was/is doing something wrong that causes this. Gibson has invested a huge amount of time and effort in trying to create pickguards that look as good and wear as well as the old ones. They're doing the best they can, given modern restrictions on paint ingredients. Nowadays, you can at least choose between "looks okay/wears great" and "looks great/wears okay" versions. That's a major advance, and I think Gibson deserves credit for making the former an option. (Although, if you want to cancel some of that credit out with a debit due to replacement pickguards being outrageously priced, that would be fine by me.) Of course, this does nothing toward eliminating the frustrations of buyers of old guitars. So venting -- and hopefully feeling some relief afterwards! -- is highly recommended. -- Bob R Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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