No Thank You. Henry.

[daveinspain]

Now that looks great...!!! I wish they would get it to production and, at least for electric, a 12 string version...

[zigzag]

Now a twelve string version might be a very good idea.

[ZenKen]

I honestly don't understand all the negative hoopla over the auto-tune technology. I suspect that many of us have incorporated an electronic tuner either on our pedal board or more recently right onto our headstocks. The extension of this to motorized tuners that interact with the same electronic tuner technology seems only natural to me, a player of more than 40 years. Back in the day we all tuned by ear. Finding this less than optimal, especially during live performance where silent tuning using an electronic tuner was better for both me as an artist and my audience who was spared the incessant drone of strings being tuned, I, and many of my peers embraced the new technology. I think I can safely say none of us will ever again see a live performance where an electronic tuner is not used (we use them in studio too don't we).

 

Truth be told innovation will never stop, nor should it. I for one am a big fan of amplifier/effects modeling technology, not universally embraced here on the forum, and am willing to wager that as modeling technology continues to improve, and it will, the day of the archaic tube amp and massive pedal boards will end (ok boys and girls, flame on!).

 

I am pretty neutral on the mini-tune today, being happy with my headstock and pedal board tuners, but I think it an interesting and logical development in the evolution of the instrument. I mean I used to hump around a Hammond B-3 and a Fender Rhodes. And while I still use the Rhodes, the B-3 is in storage and downstairs I have a Hammond XK-3, a keyboard that models the B-3's tones quite well, so well in fact that Rod Argent tours with one. Technology marches on. I choose to embrace that fact even as I selectively choose what to incorporate into my tool set.

 

Look at it this way. My parents were happy with this:

 

My phone does more and doesn't constrain me to the living room:

[Pin]

Yup, too, that a guitar is never perfectly in tune anyway, but neither is a piano.

 

A very good point.

 

For those that remember the Roland JV series of synths, there was available a (quite rare now) expansion card for the JV1080 / 2080 devoted to piano. What the engineers at Roland forgot, however, is that piano's in real life are never in tune - not even the fanciest Steinway or Yamaha. So savvy owners of the said card had to "fine detune" by a cent or two here and there the piano patches to make the whole thing sound as it "should" - a real life working piano - not in perfect tune.

[milod]

I dunno about bridge tension, etc., in a flattop.

 

I've seen lotsa flattops messed with in terms of alternative tunings albeit normally that probably gave less tension - and most tend also to have heavier strings.

 

The heaviest strings I've encountered on a real playing guitar was Mother Maybelle's old Gibbie archtop. OMG, those things were piano wire, not guitar strings. At least I guarantee it seemed that way to me at the time she let me pick on it a bit.

 

So unless somebody tried to reset the thing entirely to up the pitch while wearing heavy strings, which could be a disaster on a solidbody, semi or archtop too, I don't see the problem. Then again, I tend to use quite light strings on everything. It'd be interesting to talk to the guys at Gibson on that one.

 

As for an autotuner on a 12... Yeah, but it'd have to have twice the size and weight as one for the 6. I don't see that happening soon. I'd say it's more likely see that on a 6-piezo bridge on a 6-string with electronics adding octaves on four strings and a bit of chorus on the top two.

 

m

[AXE®]

http://www.mylespaul...23-post183.html

 

So much for the rumor. <---

lolz

[ZenKen]

Well, there's always Fender............... B)

[milod]

Don't get me wrong, I think making them part of the guitar whether you want it or not is a major error.

 

But on the Gibbie site, I note another description of an SG variant:

 

"And, like all Les Paul and SG 2013 Tribute Series guitars, the Les Paul ’60s Tribute is available upgraded with Min-ETune™ automated “Robot” tuners for a nominal upcharge."

 

That spells "optional," not "standard equipment."

 

We'll see.

 

Especially on the low end, an extra $300-$400 is likely a kick in the pants for some to look at another brand, but to others, it'd be a gift to get a robot Epi Dot or Epi LP for $700 or so.

 

I do wish a Gibbie guy would clarify asap.

 

m

[Izzy]

The key is choices. If someone wants it and it is there for them, good. If someone wants a new guitar without it and they can have it, good.

 

I remember when I used to rely on my grampa's tuner. It looks like a little harmonica with six tubes you blow into to get the right note. You gotta have the ear to turn the tuner and know when you've got the same note. I remember grampa didn't have to use it to tune his guitar (guess he had outgrown it) and I felt like a moron for using it. It felt like cheating. Now I can tune by ear and it makes me so happy.

 

That new tool may help someone and, after much use, become outgrown as well.

I'll stick to older models, less electronics and less complications. To each his/her own.

[ZenKen]

Fascinating discussion. I absolutely agree with you Izzy that it should be about choice and a responsive corporation would seemingly make a doohickey like the MiniTune optional. But there may be other factors in play. Gibson may have market research indicating that adding this to all guitars will not hurt sales and in fact may increase profit if not a detriment to sales. The feeling may be that the easily removable MiniTune makes it optional for the user to keep it or remove it in favor of traditional tuners as a mod.

 

At any rate I'm curious about comments that suggest use of such a technology amounts to, or somehow feels like cheating. Cheating who? What? Do you feel like a cheat when you drive a car with an automatic transmission? Do you use a microwave to pop popcorn and feel as if you should have heated oil in a pan added raw kernels and shook until your arm burns? Of course not. Choose to use or not use a new technology, but if you choose its use, don't feel like a cheater.

[milod]

The stuff I've read on the mini-tuner is that the pegs work regardless whether the tuner is functional or not.

 

Izzy...

 

The dealie your Granddad used is a "pitch pipe." For what it's worth, they cost about the same as a Snark headstock tuner nowadays.

 

I still have the first pitch pipe I bought for guitar. Still have the first capo, too, designed for classical guitar but mostly for Flamenco type stuff.

 

I have a tuner for each guitar, but mostly to get the bottom "E" for certain. Ditto when I used the pitch pipe. Some days I figure the "E" almost perfectly, some days ... I think 'cuz I was listening to more music that day ... It's more likely to be something else. Sheesh.

 

I think it would be an error to have a $3-400 add-on to guitars under $2,000 U.S. On the other hand... look at all the tuners on AE guitars too. I'd not have believed that in the '70s, let alone '60s. Maybe $10 more in electronics? I dunno. But they're not bad to have.

 

Note also that those little AE guitar preamps also tend to have more electronic control that and eq than a mag pickup electric - just not as solidly built. It makes me wonder...

 

m

[FennRx]

when did axe turn into a cranky old man? lolz

[quapman]

I'm sorry but I just don't buy into the whole "technological advancement" nonsense.

Ya ok,, it's kinda cool that it can tune your guitar. I get it.

 

But do I need it? That's a big fat no!

And if in fact it is true they are planning on putting this on every guitar they build?? I say,, I want some of what Henry's smoking.

 

I would be stunned if they do that and if the "rumors" are true then I am asking Henry to stop bogarting that joint and send it my way.

 

 

 

Also,a quick note to all who think this is a great idea.

Hey, I'm cool with y'all liking this. It's your choice.

But why do you feel compelled to try and convince the folks who think it's stupid that it's a good thing?

 

Sure sounds like alot of angst on here towards those who oppose it.

 

It's NOT a technological advancement like the telephone or the cell phone.

It's a mechanized device responding to frequency.

Nothing special here.

Just another thing to go wrong.

That's how I see it. And is of course, just my opinion.

[Izzy]

 

At any rate I'm curious about comments that suggest use of such a technology amounts to, or somehow feels like cheating. Cheating who? What? Do you feel like a cheat when you drive a car with an automatic transmission? Do you use a microwave to pop popcorn and feel as if you should have heated oil in a pan added raw kernels and shook until your arm burns? Of course not.

 

It isn't that technology feels like cheating, it has to do with a hard earned skill being replaced by technology.

Lets imagine all person A has to do to tune a guitar is watch for the little light on a device to know his string is tuned to E. All person A has to do is know how to turn the tuner slowly and watch for the light.

Meanwhile, person B has to HEAR the E on the pitch pipe (thanks milod) and tune the string and listen to the sring and puff on the pitch pipe again and repeat the process until the notes on the pipe and the string are the same.

 

Who has the sharper ear? When both parties hear a song on the radio and they want to play it, who will be likelier to play it accurately without getting tabs or sheet music?

 

If it felt like cheating ti was because I knew a true musician could tune without a pipe while I had to look for a tool. Its like a test and one person knows the equation to solve a problem while I have to look for the equation before I can solve it.

[quapman]

 

At any rate I'm curious about comments that suggest use of such a technology amounts to, or somehow feels like cheating. Cheating who? What? Do you feel like a cheat when you drive a car with an automatic transmission? Do you use a microwave to pop popcorn and feel as if you should have heated oil in a pan added raw kernels and shook until your arm burns? Of course not. Choose to use or not use a new technology, but if you choose its use, don't feel like a cheater.

 

 

That's a very good point. I never even thought of it that way.

 

I assume the people who think it's cheating are the same elitists who will never buy a baked maple fretboard.

 

I am not an elitist. My reasons for not wanting this is I fall into the simplistic,, perhaps utilitarian category. I don't need bells and whistles and I think for the most part that bells and whistles cost more, and they break.

 

So my only reason for opposing this gadget is:

 

1) it is not necessary and I can easily tune my guitar without it.

2) it is just another thing to go wrong.

3) DO NOT force me to pay for something I don't want.. because guess what,, I won't buy it.

 

But I never thought of the cheating thing so thanks for bringing that up.

I don't want to be categorized as an elitist.

 

[Izzy]

That's a very good point. I never even thought of it that way.

 

I assume the people who think it's cheating are the same elitists who will never buy a baked maple fretboard.

 

I don't want to be categorized as an elitist.

 

 

I'm an elitist somehow?

 

I don't even know what my fret board is made of. :unsure:

 

Take it back quap

[quapman]

I'm an elitist somehow?

 

I don't even know what my fret board is made of. :unsure:

 

Take it back quap

 

Lol,, no worries Izzy.

Not sure what to take back? I don't think you are an elitist.

And that you don't know what your fretboard is made of is proof you're not.

But for you I will take it back, if even unintentional. :)

[zigzag]

[milod]

Is it "cheating" any more than digital PhotoShop that is 50 times faster than my wet darkroom for Speed Graphic sheet film, making prints and then zincs for letterpress printing? I can boast that I can do it all - but I'd just as soon not have to.

 

Minimalist on guitar? Nobody can hear a board with a guitar neck without what was described to me as a kid as a new invention to magnetically convert string motion into electrical impulses. It's so impractical that it's not even capable of using one of the fancy new mikes and unreliable public address systems for a dance gig unless you have an extra and expensive "amplifier" machine.

 

When I was a kid, many "real guitar" players wouldn't think of anything so silly.

 

Minimalist? What are all those little boxes between one of those new-fangled electrified guitars and their new-fangled electronic amplifiers?

 

Never had 'em when I started pickin', just the new-fangled guitars and amplifiers traditionalists despised as destroying guitar music.

 

I thought they were as neat as the refrigerator that replaced the ice box relegated to the basement when the ice man stopped making his rounds through town when I was little.

 

Grandpa Walker went from pushing trade horse herds across the plains to seeing stupid horseless carriages getting stuck before roads were paved, then aereoplanes and even rocket ships. He never learned to drive - but he listened to the new wind-up Victrolas under Edison's new electric lights he never complained about. He watched those new-fangled movies and newer talkies that even made sounds; he listened to increasingly fancy radios you didn't need earphones to hear. He preferred car rides on newly-paved roads to rail cars although a horse was still more reliable. He laughed at television cowboy movie reruns as reflecting total unreality - and he enjoyed central heating.

 

Consider the stuff that wasn't around when he was a kid. None was necessary and all were more likely to go wrong than a good saddle horse or team, wood stove, music box, fiddle and flattop guitar...

 

m

[Valeriy]

I also agree that there should be a choice. Though, indeed, on live performances the tuner helps out when a lot of noise.

But at home, it is usually not necessary. I always tune my guitars by means of Apache of The Shadows. Never I was a fan of this group, but a convenient melody since 15th second to tune at once some strings:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pY-rPDwzM9M

 

This quite quickly to tune by means of this melodic phrase, it was shown to me in youth by one guitarist. Only the playing this phrase on open strings, for example, to touch the strings (tonality Em): 2-1-2-1-2(2nd fret)-2-3(2nd fret)-2. And so on , on open the lower strings. And it isn't necessary any tuner. At rehearsals, sometimes my band surprised as I quickly tune my guitar because this melody is in my head at this time. I even would suggest Henry to call his tuning gadget as Apache , the melody is so convenient to tune up a guitar at all Times :) .

[kaleb]

Why does Henry remind me of George W. Bush in the pic of him smashing the Maestro? Talk about insincere!

 

Anyway, if they're gonna put technology like that on guitars, they should offer a "smoker" option for all Ace Frehley signature LPs!

 

Seriously, what if this system breaks? What if it electrocutes someone?

 

There's a thread on here that asks what you would do if you were Beiber. I'd get with some business people that I CAN TRUST and buy Gibson. I know what I expect from this company, and they ain't delivering anymore. They have all of this stuff on the regular LP Standard (locking tuners, locking jack, etc) to compensate for their lack of proper setup at the factory. It sucks, because there's too many good people that know what they're doing working there. They should just have one model for every series (one Standard model, one Custom model, etc) available in every color, with the limited edition models thrown in every once and a while. There shouldn't have to be a custom shop (other than for special order only), the standard USA quality should be that good.

 

 

 

[milod]

Kaleb...

 

I dunno...

 

Personally, were I to become a multi-millionaire the last Gibbie I'd buy likely would be the V and the LP. I just don't care for them.

 

I figure I'll only howl if Gibson does indeed go down the tubes.

 

Until then, I think Henry and company are looking at filling market niches - most of which neither you nor I care about at all - and apparently are doing so rather successfully. Silly as it may seem at times.

 

As for the tuner, you're no more likely to electrocute yourself than with your cell phone - and far less likely than my old camera flash that once did literally put me on the floor due to my own stupidity cleaning out the battery and capacitor case.

 

Also the tuners work even if the battery's down or missing, or if the whole piece drops dead.

 

So... I do think there's a marketplace for it. No, I'm really not likely to buy a guitar so-equipped at this point, although if I won the lottery or if I got a gig calling for a lotta alternate tunings, I'd consider it.

 

One might note that along with acoustics, the gizmo isn't available on the jazz boxes, either. If you're gonna put out that kinda cash, you're either rich enough not to care about playing or you're good enough that you don't need it for standard tunings.

 

I actually believe that HenryJ himself has such stuff on a number of his personal guitars. Whether either of us would find him a coffee/beer buddy, he is at least a competent amateur playing at home for his own enjoyment and I'll wager he's had a lot of fun messing with the thing - even as thousands of others in similar positions will find it a fun gadget.

 

Again - I'm not sure that you and I, different though we may be in personality and music preferences - are at all the target audience for this sorta thing. Many of us here have been pickin' our own thing long enough to have some pretty solid opinions on what we want and like for what we use our guitars/equipment for. But for a lotta folks, it's not that much more pricey than a good tuner pedal they'll seldom use playing out, if at all, and for them a lot more practical.

 

m

[ZenKen]

 

Compensating frets are actually pretty interesting if you understand how a straight fret impedes and makes perfect intonation impossible. And before you say perfect intonation isn't necessary I would ask why we accept compensating bridges like the tune-o-matic? Because we want to approach perfect intonation, that's why. A development like compensating frets merely extends this concept to the fret board and compensates along the entire length of the string, not just at one end.

[cookieman15061]

I'm jumping in here a little late but I've been reading everyones response and it's an interesting subject. A few weeks back I was at my local Mom n Pop music store and the tech that does all the major work on my guitars showed me the auto tune system on Peavey guitars.

 

 

He thought it was a pretty cool idea but I really didn't care for it. I don't find keeping my guitars tuned to be a huge issue and frankly new technology on my instrument is one more thing to go wrong. Like always remembering to put a fresh battery in my Clapton Strat before an important gig. Ha!

 

 

I think Gibson would be better served to do the little things BETTER than to try and be cutting edge. Too many times lately I've seen things wrong on their guitars and they shouldn't have made it through quality control.

 

No autotune system is gonna correct the badly cut nuts, paint, finish and wiring issues that I wouldn't except on a $500 guitar let alone one for a couple grand.

[rct]

 

Compensating frets are actually pretty interesting if you understand how a straight fret impedes and makes perfect intonation impossible. And before you say perfect intonation isn't necessary I would ask why we accept compensating bridges like the tune-o-matic? Because we want to approach perfect intonation, that's why...

 

I don't agree. Compensating bridges have been on guitars since it was understood that the scale length and the range of a guitar are such that a human can hear when the intonation is out. Our guitars are just compensating enough to get the intonation close enough that other humans don't have any discomfort listening to REO. That's about it.

"Perfect Intonation" exists only to sell things to people that need to buy things that make their guitars better/faster/prettier/superiorer to everyone elses.

 

rct