Wait, what century are we living in…?

[Bender 4 Life]

And we are the ones watching out for the elephants.

 

yes, and using them as slave labor in mine infested jungles, or slaughtering them for their tusks is GREAT stewardsip isn't it?

[BobF_]

Yeah, multiculturalism is quite a mess, at this stage anyway.

But as i see it, it´s our only chance to learn how to get along, if we stay at different sides of the fence, we never stop to throw molotows on each other.

I may be wrong but i can´t see another solution, if there are any, that is.

 

Rather than multicultural, how 'bout assimilation ... blending of cultures. Combine into something better by taking bits and pieces of the others?

 

From where I'm standing, multiculturalism is keeping the fences in place.

[daveinspain]

I really believe that what we are seeing is just the start of a decent into Holy war, in fact I think the war has already started, it's just the West doesn't know it's at war yet. Hear in the U.K there has been a steady stream of immigrants from the Indian sub Continent who are still living in the middle ages and are intent on continuing to do so. I was talking to one educated young Woman from the sub Continent who had nothing but contempt for her fellow Countrymen describing them as "nothing more than tribal goat herders". I do believe the trouble has only just started and the civilised world as we know it had better watch out.

 

Ian

 

I hate to say it but i think you are right...

[L8_4thesh0w]

It's all out there. We see the world through our own prejudices. We see what we chose to see. I chose to see and focus on the good. Others chose to focus on the bad . There is plenty of both .

 

Folks talk about religion and point to OBL and ISIS. I point to MLK, Mother Teresa and Gandhi.

http://m.huffpost.com/us/entry/5701205

Good point and great outlook.

The voices of reason are constantly drowned out by cynicism.

Look for the worst and you will find it every time.

 

But let's not forget, Religion is an invention of man.

Don't blame the God that we do or don't believe in for the atrocities committed in His name.

[charlie brown]

Good point and great outlook.

The voices of reason are constantly drowned out by cynicism.

Look for the worst and you will find it every time.

 

But let's not forget, Religion is an invention of man.

Don't blame the God that we do or don't believe in for the atrocities committed in His name.

 

Yep!

 

CB

[milod]

I think a problem is really cultural in the sense that the old "cargo cult" made such an impression in WWII to Melanesian folks when "Europeans" showed up with loads of "stuff."

 

As is one valid note from a quick Wiki quote: "Since the modern manufacturing process is unknown to them, members, leaders, and prophets of the cults maintain that the manufactured goods of the non-native culture have been created by spiritual means, such as through their deities and ancestors. These goods are intended for the local indigenous people, but the foreigners have unfairly gained control of these objects through malice or mistake.[9] Thus, a characteristic feature of cargo cults is the belief that spiritual agents will, at some future time, give much valuable cargo and desirable manufactured products to the cult members."

 

In ways we have something of that today in responses of cultures - some inside our own "European" and more specifically "Anglophone" cultures that believes they were somehow cheated as a people, and that they must battle to gain from their own "spirituality" a proper (in their eyes) distribution of wealth and political power.

 

The odds of that cultural believe and response being changed through "education" is about as likely as the moon flying off to visit Mars next week.

 

On the other hand, for the past cupla centuries "European" civilizations have been dreaming when they figured that there was a potential of cultural assimilation along with retention of what "Europeans" believed to be beneficial aspects of the other cultures such as some arts. The problem is that those other cultures simply don't have the same values.

 

So we can see the reactions in miniature with the Israeli/Gaza follies and in Missouri. When cultures have certain foundational beliefs that cannot mix, a good metaphor is that of tectonic plates. There's an occasional earthquake while those separate plates continue grinding along changing the world, but never mixing.

 

There's a huge challenge that the European educated world must face, and that is that those who ain't "in," want what they have, as with the cargo cults, but don't want to be and do what is required for an industrial and post-industrial culture. Again, "Education" doesn't do anything to change the basic cultural assumptions that are in perpetual antagonism.

 

m

[charlie brown]

Economics! Greed (money, power, ideological), and instant gratification.

 

CB

[Searcy]

yes, and using them as slave labor in mine infested jungles, or slaughtering them for their tusks is GREAT stewardsip isn't it?

 

Yes , we do a good job . But you see only what you want to to. Just as I do .

http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Elephant_Sanctuary_(Hohenwald)

[L8_4thesh0w]

It is so hard not to be "conflicted" about so much these days.

 

I mean, I wonder how "Green Power" proponents feel about birds bursting into flame on the solar collector farms in New Mexico?

[rct]

Actually we are the most compassionate and caring creatures on the planet.

 

Some say that, and it is usually followed by "survival of the fittest" out there in the wild and stuff, it's a jungle out there, that kind of thing.

 

We were once sitting on a river bank out at the far northern/eastern end of Lamar valley in Yellowstone. Across the river, up the bank, back another 50 feet or so, another bank up, maybe 15 feet or so. A meadow from there, going maybe quarter mile to the feet of the small mountains back there.

 

The wolves came out about 8 oclock, 8 or 10 of them. Last one down was a big one, looked like a big used-to-be alpha male, old too from the looks people got at the face color. Grey to black, which is different, not a whole lot of blacker ones. Later I went and found his number, but that's another thing.

 

He had a bad limp, really bad back leg. Either caught in some rocks maybe, or bit bad in a fight, probably the latter. There aren't any leg traps out there because, well, they'd shoot you for doing that.

 

Anyway, about a dozen of us were oohin and ahhing these guys, especially the limping wolf. Three others were a half mile to the right, fussing around by the top of the bank, and one came up with a rabbit. The three of them played with it for few minutes, you know, its a jungle, survival of the fittest rabbits, the slowest dumbest get caught and tossed about. So yeah, it's a tough life out there.

 

The biggest of those three picked up the rabbit in his mouth, held it high and sort of pranced, did that strut thing, the entire half mile or so back to where most of the pack was. The limper stood by himself a little way from the others, watching, sometimes yapping, tail wag sometimes.

 

The young buck with the rabbit pranced directly to him. Dropped the rabbit at his front feet, put his front end down first and looked up, slightly turned, showing his throat. Your experience with dogs will show you that probably a lot.

 

Old limp guy limped forward, leaned down and nuzzled youngster, lots. Like a few minutes of nuzzling. The spotters with the good scopes saw him talking, making sounds at the youngster. Then he sat down and started eating the rabbit, and the other two youngsters approached and sat around him, watching him eat from a respectful distance with the guy that brought the rabbit.

 

When I went to get his number they told us he'd been limping hard for a year by that time. That was 2010, and as of this June he was still limping around, but they expect age to take him if this is a bad winter, next winter at most.

 

Compassion and caring knows no species. You can say what you want about people, the one thing you can say for certain is that there are no animals at all that are just plain old rotten fcuking ckocscukers like lots of people are.

 

If you kids behave, I'll tell you about the elks up on Blacktail, and how they spend the night around their hurt herd members, because the Blacktail Plateau is a great place to get eaten by a bear.

 

rct

[L8_4thesh0w]

There once was an old Indian. His little grandson often came in the evenings to sit at his knee and ask the many questions that children ask.

One day the grandson came to his grandfather with a look of anger on his face. Grandfather said, "Come, sit, tell me what has happened today."

 

The child sat and leaned his chin on his Grandfather's knee. Looking up into the wrinkled, nut brown face and the kind dark eyes, the child's anger turned to quiet tears.

 

The boy said, "I went to the town today with my father, to trade the furs he has collected over the past several months.

I was happy to go, because father said that since I had helped him with the trapping, I could get something for me. Something that I wanted.

 

I was so excited to be in the trading post. I have not been there before. I looked at many things and finally found a metal knife! It was small, but good size for me, so father got it for me."

 

Here the boy laid his head against his grandfather's knee and became silent. The Grandfather, softly placed his hand on the boys raven hair and said, "And then what happened?"

Without lifting his head, the boy said, "I went outside to wait for father, and to admire my new knife in the sunlight. Some town boys came by and saw me, they got all around me and starting saying bad things.

 

They called me dirty and stupid and said that I should not have such a fine knife. The largest of these boys, pushed me back and I fell over one of the other boys. I dropped my knife and one of them snatched it up and they all ran away, laughing."

 

Here the boy's anger returned, "I hate them, I hate them all!" The Grandfather, with eyes that had seen too much, lifted his grandson's face so his eyes looked into the boy's.

Grandfather said, "Let me tell you a story. I too, at times, have felt a great hate for those that have taken so much, with no sorrow for what they do.

 

But hate wears you down, and does not hurt your enemy. It is like taking poison and wishing your enemy would die. I have struggled with these feelings many times. It is as if there are two wolves inside me, one is white and one is black.

White Wolf is good and does no harm. He lives in harmony with all around him and does not take offense when no offense was intended. He will only fight when it is right to do so, and in the right way.

 

But Black Wolf is full of anger. The littlest thing will set him into a fit of temper. He fights everyone, all the time, for no reason. He cannot think because his anger and hate are so great.

It is helpless anger, for his anger will change nothing. Sometimes it is hard to live with these two wolves inside me, for both of them seek to dominate my spirit."

 

The boy, looked intently into his Grandfather's eyes, and asked, "Which one wins Grandfather?"

 

The Grandfather, smiled and said, "The one I feed."

 

Origin unknown. As told to Tèmakamoxkomëhèt by his friend Asuwibi'oxkwe.

[Holmis]

Rather than multicultural, how 'bout assimilation ... blending of cultures. Combine into something better by taking bits and pieces of the others?

 

From where I'm standing, multiculturalism is keeping the fences in place.

 

Well, that´s what i hope will be the outcome a few generations forward!

Just pick the best pieces and parts from each culture and blend them, right now, would be hard, percieved as forced and come to more conflicts.

But over time, the fences will tumble, maybe naive, but one have to hope.

[Starpeve]

The remarkable thing about Homo Sapiens, or Homo Superious, or Homo Perfectus, or whatever we are now, is our ability to revert to the basest form of our type at the drop of a hat. Witness Sarajevo, for one. I heard live BBC radio broadcasts about fighters in Rwannda stacking bodies as sandbags during a lull in the fighting. At least Lord of the Rings had nobility and hope.

[Starpeve]

There once was an old Indian. His little grandson often came in the evenings to sit at his knee and ask the many questions that children ask.

One day the grandson came to his grandfather with a look of anger on his face. Grandfather said, "Come, sit, tell me what has happened today."

 

The child sat and leaned his chin on his Grandfather's knee. Looking up into the wrinkled, nut brown face and the kind dark eyes, the child's anger turned to quiet tears.

 

The boy said, "I went to the town today with my father, to trade the furs he has collected over the past several months.

I was happy to go, because father said that since I had helped him with the trapping, I could get something for me. Something that I wanted.

 

I was so excited to be in the trading post. I have not been there before. I looked at many things and finally found a metal knife! It was small, but good size for me, so father got it for me."

 

Here the boy laid his head against his grandfather's knee and became silent. The Grandfather, softly placed his hand on the boys raven hair and said, "And then what happened?"

Without lifting his head, the boy said, "I went outside to wait for father, and to admire my new knife in the sunlight. Some town boys came by and saw me, they got all around me and starting saying bad things.

 

They called me dirty and stupid and said that I should not have such a fine knife. The largest of these boys, pushed me back and I fell over one of the other boys. I dropped my knife and one of them snatched it up and they all ran away, laughing."

 

Here the boy's anger returned, "I hate them, I hate them all!" The Grandfather, with eyes that had seen too much, lifted his grandson's face so his eyes looked into the boy's.

Grandfather said, "Let me tell you a story. I too, at times, have felt a great hate for those that have taken so much, with no sorrow for what they do.

 

But hate wears you down, and does not hurt your enemy. It is like taking poison and wishing your enemy would die. I have struggled with these feelings many times. It is as if there are two wolves inside me, one is white and one is black.

White Wolf is good and does no harm. He lives in harmony with all around him and does not take offense when no offense was intended. He will only fight when it is right to do so, and in the right way.

 

But Black Wolf is full of anger. The littlest thing will set him into a fit of temper. He fights everyone, all the time, for no reason. He cannot think because his anger and hate are so great.

It is helpless anger, for his anger will change nothing. Sometimes it is hard to live with these two wolves inside me, for both of them seek to dominate my spirit."

 

The boy, looked intently into his Grandfather's eyes, and asked, "Which one wins Grandfather?"

 

The Grandfather, smiled and said, "The one I feed."

 

Origin unknown. As told to Tèmakamoxkomëhèt by his friend Asuwibi'oxkwe.

Simply beautiful.

[daveinspain]

This forum is amazingly civil, and for the most part, full of good people… Just saying'...

[charlie brown]

Well, unfortunately, as maddening, horrific, and tragic, as events in the

world are, they're nothing new, either in severity, or even in agenda. We

just know/see it, 24/7 "live," nowadays, via Hi Def TV, and the Internet!

I do (still) feel like that kind of immediate global access, fuels a lot

of these events, and empowers those that would perpetrate them anyway, a

lot more. But, I only have that kind of access, to go by. If books, and

even "scrolls" from the biblical times, are even moderately accurate, this

has been going on for Thousands of years, by (basically) the same

people! It seems to be cyclical, in a some ways, as there

are periods of (relative) calm, and periods of ferocious violence.

But, maybe in those calm times, they're just planning, or re-loading?

 

So...???

 

CB

[Karloff]

There once was an old Indian. His little grandson often came in the evenings to sit at his knee and ask the many questions that children ask.

One day the grandson came to his grandfather with a look of anger on his face. Grandfather said, "Come, sit, tell me what has happened today."

 

The child sat and leaned his chin on his Grandfather's knee. Looking up into the wrinkled, nut brown face and the kind dark eyes, the child's anger turned to quiet tears.

 

The boy said, "I went to the town today with my father, to trade the furs he has collected over the past several months.

I was happy to go, because father said that since I had helped him with the trapping, I could get something for me. Something that I wanted.

 

I was so excited to be in the trading post. I have not been there before. I looked at many things and finally found a metal knife! It was small, but good size for me, so father got it for me."

 

Here the boy laid his head against his grandfather's knee and became silent. The Grandfather, softly placed his hand on the boys raven hair and said, "And then what happened?"

Without lifting his head, the boy said, "I went outside to wait for father, and to admire my new knife in the sunlight. Some town boys came by and saw me, they got all around me and starting saying bad things.

 

They called me dirty and stupid and said that I should not have such a fine knife. The largest of these boys, pushed me back and I fell over one of the other boys. I dropped my knife and one of them snatched it up and they all ran away, laughing."

 

Here the boy's anger returned, "I hate them, I hate them all!" The Grandfather, with eyes that had seen too much, lifted his grandson's face so his eyes looked into the boy's.

Grandfather said, "Let me tell you a story. I too, at times, have felt a great hate for those that have taken so much, with no sorrow for what they do.

 

But hate wears you down, and does not hurt your enemy. It is like taking poison and wishing your enemy would die. I have struggled with these feelings many times. It is as if there are two wolves inside me, one is white and one is black.

White Wolf is good and does no harm. He lives in harmony with all around him and does not take offense when no offense was intended. He will only fight when it is right to do so, and in the right way.

 

But Black Wolf is full of anger. The littlest thing will set him into a fit of temper. He fights everyone, all the time, for no reason. He cannot think because his anger and hate are so great.

It is helpless anger, for his anger will change nothing. Sometimes it is hard to live with these two wolves inside me, for both of them seek to dominate my spirit."

 

The boy, looked intently into his Grandfather's eyes, and asked, "Which one wins Grandfather?"

 

The Grandfather, smiled and said, "The one I feed."

 

Origin unknown. As told to Tèmakamoxkomëhèt by his friend Asuwibi'oxkwe.

 

 

Simply beautiful.

 

I believe that says it all right there .

[milod]

The "Indian" story is a nice tale, indeed.

 

The problem is that it's not part of most cultures - in fact, any I'm aware of - once they feel disinherited of their rightful control of their environment.

 

Where I live a large percentage of folks you'll meet are all or part genetic "Native Americans." But you're not likely to notice because they live next door and you work with them daily so they're "Bill" or "Jane" or similar names even if their great grandfathers were "Chasing Horse" or their great grandmother "Rattling Woman."

 

On the other hand, within three or four hours drive, one finds "Indian Reservations" where folks are all or part genetic "Native Americans" where you feel a cultural difference and feeling of disinheritance and loss of their "rightful" control of their environment.

 

Which is right? I dunno, but I can tell you that those who work within the more general culture tend to have a lot more friends in more different places and social environments, fewer drug and alcohol problems and generally a far better economic existence even while feeling pride in the culture of their great grandparents and their own genetic backgrounds.

 

Those who intentionally flaunt differences in subculture can expect to have difficulty functioning in society at large. The greater they wish the cultural differences to be, the greater the difficulty in functioning.

 

That, to me, is where we have difficulty in this sort of discussion.

 

More than a few friends, black and white, have suggested that only funerals will end the cultural polarity of many Americans of European and African genetic heritage - and bring that desired recognition that each individual makes his or her own personal subculture to assimilate with others, or to withdraw to interact only with others who share his or her foundation "belief system."

 

After some bumps at times, the U.S. military actually is a decent example of folks getting along regardless of genetics or religious/cultural background. Perhaps the increasing experience of Americans covering each others' backs in battle makes skin color and such far less relevant. We all know the exceptions are those of all races and background whose minds don't allow that perspective and tend to quickly leave the military.

 

Dunno about other countries, but I've heard it suggested that more Muslims from the UK currently are in the Middle East fighting for radical Islamist causes than have joined Her Majesty's military.

 

m

[zigzag]

Dunno about other countries, but I've heard it suggested that more Muslims from the UK currently are in the Middle East fighting for radical Islamist causes than have joined Her Majesty's military.

 

Perhaps that's where they should stay.

[btoth76]

Hello!

 

May I add my comments...just a couple of thoughts.

 

There are people, cultures who can cooperate with each other, even overcoming centuries of rivalry, like the German, French and British. This took them to start trusting each other, - but more importantly - to recognize their common needs and work together to achieve them. I really hope that East-Europe will grow up to this too soon.

 

There are people, cultures that cannot be blended, simply because these people don`t want to give up the elements of their former lifestyle that are unacceptable to the receiving society. I always wonder about the radical muslims of West-Europe. They left their homes, - obviously because they wanted a different life. Then they cry for sharia to be implemented in christian countries they settled in. What is wrong with this people? Why don't they just go back home, if that's what they really want.

 

Then, there are those who want to take all what a society can provide them, but not willing to become productive members. I see that in my country. Billions invested in social progams, education without any sign of a development. What more You can do? And that's a ticking bomb. Usually, this segment of the society grows faster leading to racial clashes sooner or later.

 

And, - of course - there are those countries (not the people, but the leading elite), who are driven by greed and want to put their hands on all resources of the world. Imperialists, and imperialism armed with today's technology, backed up with the media - manipulating masses - is the main cause of the permanent unrest in the world on a large scale.

 

...and on the top of this: over-population, exhausting the nature, living up all the resources, wasting them away...

 

Unfortunately, I see no solutions here. But people got to start talking about problems, we can't sweep them under the carpet anymore.

 

Best wishes... Bence

[BobF_]

Hello!

 

May I add my comments...just a couple of thoughts.

 

There are people, cultures who can cooperate with each other, even overcoming centuries of rivalry, like the German, French and British. This took them to start trusting each other, - but more importantly - to recognize their common needs and work together to achieve them. I really hope that East-Europe will grow up to this too soon.

 

There are people, cultures that cannot be blended, simply because these people don`t want to give up the elements of their former lifestyle that are unacceptable to the receiving society. I always wonder about the radical muslims of West-Europe. They left their homes, - obviously because they wanted a different life. Then they cry for sharia to be implemented in christian countries they settled in. What is wrong with this people? Why don't they just go back home, if that's what they really want.

 

Then, there are those who want to take all what a society can provide them, but not willing to become productive members. I see that in my country. Billions invested in social progams, education without any sign of a development. What more You can do? And that's a ticking bomb. Usually, this segment of the society grows faster leading to racial clashes sooner or later.

 

And, - of course - there are those countries (not the people, but the leading elite), who are driven by greed and want to put their hands on all resources of the world. Imperialists, and imperialism armed with today's technology, backed up with the media - manipulating masses - is the main cause of the permanent unrest in the world on a large scale.

 

...and on the top of this: over-population, exhausting the nature, living up all the resources, wasting them away...

 

Unfortunately, I see no solutions here. But people got to start talking about problems, we can't sweep them under the carpet anymore.

 

Best wishes... Bence

 

Good summary Bence!

 

In our country, the recipients now outnumber the contributors. But isn't this really happening as you've described on a global scale? Combined with overpopulation and birth rates that are much higher amongst the recipients ....

 

IMO this is less about race and more about socioeconomic classes, which, BTW, contain all races.

[btoth76]

...IMO this is less about race and more about socioeconomic classes, which, BTW, contain all races.

 

Well, yes, however in my region it is an even more complicated question. Not just a socio-economic issue. It is also matter of cultural differences, which turns into a socio-economics question, like a never ending spiral.

 

Best wishes... Bence

[charlie brown]

And, when those "receivers," not only out number the providers, but receive more money,

and entitlements, so they live better, tax free, than most of the providers, who are

paying the taxes to support them, in the first place. Then raise Hell, about wanting

more and more, and not being interested in assimilating, much less, being productive!

Talk about inciting resentment, and hostility! Then, when you import more, illegally...

well, the Shite will hit the fan, eventually. And, the "Media," both mainstream, and

"social networks," just fan the flames, without offering much (if anything) in solutions.

 

"GOD" (whatever you think of that being) Help Us All!

 

CB

[rct]

And, when those "receivers," not only out number the providers, but receive more money,

and entitlements, so they live better, tax free, than most of the providers, who are

paying the taxes to support them, in the first place.

 

I'm sorry CB, I love you guitar brutha, but please please please provide some statistical evidence of "receivers" outnumbering "providers". Please. Or anyone else for that matter.

 

This seems to be the current dinner table wisdom in Amerikur, and I'm damned if I can find any numbers even remotely close to even being able to forecast such a situation in my lifetime.

 

rct

[IanHenry]

Hello!

 

May I add my comments...just a couple of thoughts.

 

There are people, cultures who can cooperate with each other, even overcoming centuries of rivalry, like the German, French and British. This took them to start trusting each other, - but more importantly - to recognize their common needs and work together to achieve them. I really hope that East-Europe will grow up to this too soon.

 

There are people, cultures that cannot be blended, simply because these people don`t want to give up the elements of their former lifestyle that are unacceptable to the receiving society. I always wonder about the radical muslims of West-Europe. They left their homes, - obviously because they wanted a different life. Then they cry for sharia to be implemented in christian countries they settled in. What is wrong with this people? Why don't they just go back home, if that's what they really want.

 

Then, there are those who want to take all what a society can provide them, but not willing to become productive members. I see that in my country. Billions invested in social progams, education without any sign of a development. What more You can do? And that's a ticking bomb. Usually, this segment of the society grows faster leading to racial clashes sooner or later.

 

And, - of course - there are those countries (not the people, but the leading elite), who are driven by greed and want to put their hands on all resources of the world. Imperialists, and imperialism armed with today's technology, backed up with the media - manipulating masses - is the main cause of the permanent unrest in the world on a large scale.

 

...and on the top of this: over-population, exhausting the nature, living up all the resources, wasting them away...

 

Unfortunately, I see no solutions here. But people got to start talking about problems, we can't sweep them under the carpet anymore.

 

Best wishes... Bence

 

Bence,

I think you've hit the nail on the head there. As I mentioned earlier, some of those people are medieval in there attitudes and way of life and have no desire to change, you only have to look at their attitudes to Woman. I think some of them still believe the Crusades are still going on.

 

Ian