Ren - part two is gone.

[Doug the Old Geezer]

Ren no longer works for Fender .

Cordoba purchased Guild

 

 

 

 

JC

 

 

Juan Carlos, I have a question for you. With Ren F. over at Guild now, do you think that Gibson's quality of acoustics will be diminished? Will Gibson make other changes that could affect their acoustical guitar business?

[JuanCarlosVejar]

Juan Carlos, I have a question for you. With Ren F. over at Guild now, do you think that Gibson's quality of acoustics will be diminished? Will Gibson make other changes that could affect their acoustical guitar business?

In my opinion if they stick to Ren's Methods no ... they are still putting out great guitars.

But if a GM comes along and starts charging production methods or techniques it could very well happen.

 

 

 

 

 

JC

[Dotneck]

I guess we'll have a better idea if and when Music Villa responds to enquiries.

 

I don't expect you will ever hear from MV about this. I'd bet a donut that Gibson leaned on MV. MV does too much business with Gibson to risk letting a video out if Gibson objects. My own personal opinion of course...

[onewilyfool]

I don't expect you will ever hear from MV about this. I'd bet a donut that Gibson leaned on MV. MV does too much business with Gibson to risk letting a video out if Gibson objects. My own personal opinion of course...

 

Sounds like this could be true….anyone know Ren or Tony P., and can get an explanation???

[J-200 Koa]

Having seen the Part 2 video, I'm wondering if the new owners of

Guild felt that the delays in starting the new factory in California

sent a negative view of Guild. Months have passed since the transition

from Fender to Cordoba and production has yet to start.

[Mr Moto]

Having seen the Part 2 video, I'm wondering if the new owners of

Guild felt that the delays in starting the new factory in California

sent a negative view of Guild. Months have passed since the transition

from Fender to Cordoba and production has yet to start.

 

That makes sense to me. Maybe Ren's current employer thought that his comments might send some negative signals out into the potential marketplace for their new product line by airing the difficulties that they face just getting to market. Orders from retailers and distributors could certainly dry up if they believed that they might never receive what they order.

[Doug the Old Geezer]

In my opinion if they stick to Ren's Methods no ... they are still putting out great guitars.

But if a GM comes along and starts charging production methods or techniques it could very well happen.

 

 

 

 

 

JC

 

Thanks, JC. I hope that never happens. I really love playing my J-35 and even if I never buy another guitar, I am hooked on the Gibson sound and quality.

[Priority Four]

Interesting that so many people seem to have the opinion that Bozeman built quality guitars because of Ren in spite of Gibson. If Henry J. runs the company with a lot of control (and I believe he does), then does it not follow that Ren was hired because Henry wanted to produce a quality product and he was the kind of guy he needed for that.

 

It does seem to me from his comments that Ren was interested in building guitars with a level ornamentation that was beyond what Gibson wanted to produce. Ornamentation does not equal quality so we are not talking about that. I also gathered that Ren wanted to do more custom work than the company was interested in. I'm all for custom guitars if the market will support it, but again that does not go to quality.

 

Ren spoke of a "wobble" when there was a quality issue. Wrong direction for sure, but it got fixed partly because Ren was there being the quality guitar man that landed him the job in the first place.

 

I read Ren to be a project guy. By that I mean he enjoys start up, build up, inventing kind of stuff. I bet he did not enjoy the job as much after the tools were built from scratch and the Songwriters were designed, etc. Seems like rebirthing a guitar factory is what he is built to do. It makes sense to me that he is doing it.

[Anthony Buckeridge]

It is a Hallmark Quality and Characteristic of Guitar Fora.

 

That whenever the Most Authoritative Voices in the Entire Guitar World, Clearly Express an Authentically Compelling Truth.

 

An Insightful and Immutable Law. An Indisputable, Irrefutable, Incontrovertible and Axiomatic Fact. Perspicaciously and Profoundly, Utterly Transcending, widespread prevailing perception.

 

 

 

 

There will be a Tiny Minority.

 

 

 

 

Who, completely unable to formulate a cogent argument, and lacking any genuinely comparative depth of experience themselves, can't even begin, to attempt to prevail, against the Unassailable Logic of a Better Way to Think and Approach, their Ownership of Guitars.

 

 

 

 

At that Point.

 

The Tiny Minority who simply want their marketplace derived ideas.

 

Their entirely prejudiced, predicational and prepositionally formulated conceptualizations reinforced.

 

And knowing they are incapable of successfully addressing and defeating their Formidable Opponent in open debate. Indulge and Unite in Ad Hominem Attack.

 

https://yourlogicalfallacyis.com/ad-hominem

 

It is the Sporting Equivalent of Attacking the Player instead of the Ball, and in Reality, a Straightforward Foul that should be Punished by Exclusion. After all, Exclusion is what they really seek, for the Player they Attack.

 

 

 

 

Quite Simply. They want to Take Him Out.

 

 

 

Because they Know they simply Cannot Ever Match the Authentic Quality of His Game.

 

We All have Witnessed This Happen many times, here and elsewhere, often venting with bumper sticker reductionism, in what passes for humour, from Infantine and Immature Minds.

 

Sometimes, small gangs of fanboyz, conspiring privately, are involved together. Their favourite ploy to Badger Moderators with Multiple False Accusations, which they don't have time to Properly Investigate.

 

 

 

But the Similar Purpose, is always to Silence, the Ascendant Voice.

 

 

 

They simply don't want Heard.

 

 

 

Heck!

 

What is the Good of Fora?

 

If you Silence the Most Experienced.

 

And Authoritative Voices in the Entire World?

 

 

 

The first Internet Fora I joined, had Fleetwood Mac's Guitarist Lindsey, Al Schmitt (Winner of More Grammys than anyone else in Recording History) and Producer Joe Chiccarelli contributing, with a whole lot of other Great People, all the time.

 

But All the Best People, are Driven Out of Music Fora, by the Crude, Rude and Self Serving Miscreants, that simply want their own Misconceptions, Formulated and Shaped by Advertising and Marketing Executives, Validated and Endorsed by someone who can be Momentarily Reassuring to their Constant, Inner Disquiet.

 

 

 

 

Because, they have little talent. If any at all.

 

Because, they don't in reality know what they are doing.

 

Because, they are Driven from within by Underlying Inferiority.

 

They Require an Exterior, Authoritative Voice to Validate their Thinking.

 

 

 

 

What in Reality They Seek is This.

 

 

 

 

Personal Affirmation.

 

 

 

The last thing they want to hear.

 

Is an Authoritative Voice that Completely Challenges the Whole Basis, of their Carefully Selected, Chosen Way.

 

That Sweeps the Carpet from Under Them. So Taking Out the Most Authoritative Voice in the World, seems like the Best Option to anyone placed in this or a similar position.

 

 

 

 

That has certainly has happened here.

 

 

 

The Most Authoritative Voice, Hired with the Express Intention to Display, Endorse, Validate and Affirm a Corporate Commitment to the Highest Qualities, Great Players Aspire to.

 

 

 

 

The Video, was One of the Most Interestingly Authoritative, Ever Posted. In my Opinion, the Basis for its Removal is Two Fold.

 

The First is that Reviewers are Heavily Dependent upon the Cooperation of Guitar Manufacturers to Freely Supply New Product that could be withheld, to Continuously Sustain their Basic Business Model.

 

The Second is that Ren, whom I Admire Immensely, actually named the General Manager who Actuated his Abdication and Demise from Gibson. (Probably on Behalf of Another for Convenience) This could result in Hate Mail and even Physical Attacks, against the Named Individual it would be argued, and a Defamation of Character Law Suit follow.

 

 

 

 

The Public Relations Machine would Act to Take This Out as Damage Limitation.

 

 

 

 

But the Salient Point is this.

 

There are those hereabouts who would readily condemn Gibson.

 

Who none the less, Act and Behave Repeatedly on Internet Fora, in exactly the Self Same Manner.

 

 

 

So some of you.

 

Before you throw a Stone at Henry.

 

Try dropping it on your Own Head, instead of Gibson's.

 

It just might be, Positively Constructive, of Genuine Cognitive Improvement.

 

For there are those, on a Wide Variety of Guitar Fora, who are Equally Culpable of all they would Condemn.

 

Sometimes, Experienced and Successful Designers and Long Established Manufacturers are Heading in Diametrically Opposite Directions.

 

 

This Appears to be the Case with Ren and Gibson.

 

Ultimately, Gibson was who, Ren was working for.

 

I am Familiar with the Situation, Only Too Well.

[E-minor7]

"Huh. . . "

 

, , , to quote Buc McMaster. .

 

 

 

[BluesKing777]

I must re-read "The Fountainhead" .....

 

 

 

BluesKing777.

[j45nick]

I must re-read "The Fountainhead" .....

 

 

 

BluesKing777.

 

 

I wouldn't bother.......

[JuanCarlosVejar]

I don't think it was Henry's fault at all ... Ren clearly said that out of fear of being fired the GM at that moment never told Henry what he was doing

 

 

 

 

JC

[onewilyfool]

Why do they call it "dope"?

[chasAK]

I appreciated all three interviews. It was good to hear of Ren's continuing career. It is refreshing to see a talented man who does not know how to retire. It is too bad the video was pulled. I saw nothing objectionable in it.

 

I found the birth of the SongWriter very interesting. I remember when I was looking to get back into playing guitar. I was looking at rosewood & spruce. I tried mostly Martins and a few Taylors. Then I saw a rosewood Gibson with a natural top. I played it and went wow, this thing sounds nice! When I played the j45 hog it was all over, she won. The sound of the j45 fit my playing, but the Song Writer was somethingto take a second glance at for sure!

 

chaAK

 

[slimt]

I always will be a Ren Ferguson Groupee. :P Ren is right.. HJ is Wrong.. Hj will always be wrong... Money over matter never gets my vote.. or Buys..

[PickitPaul]

Corporate dealings are what they are - not much to do with building or art....but my '91 SJ is opening up and I think that Ren or someone not too far removed built a really special guitar, one that cannot be replaced without waiting 23 years

[Anthony Buckeridge]

Quote: "I always will be a Ren Ferguson Groupee. Ren is right.. HJ is Wrong.. Hj will always be wrong... Money over matter never gets my vote.. or Buys.."

 

 

 

 

One can completely understand and appreciate this point of view.

 

The problem with it, if I may very respectfully state it, is that following this line of logic, everyone that loves Gibson Guitars, would Ironically and Conversely need to be Extremely Wealthy Indeed.

 

This was the case when I was a small boy growing up in Great Britain, where because of Protectionist Trade Embargo's, American Guitars like Martin, Gibson and Fender, even when they were finally allowed into this Country, Cost a Third More than in America where they were the Major Top Brands for a Musician to Own, and were sold here at their Full Retail Price.

 

In the Early Days, Jimmy Page couldn't afford a Gibson here. Sir Paul McCartney couldn't afford a Fender. I Played a New Gibson 335 that was £100 cheaper than a New Les Paul at the time. Top Brand Guitars were such a lot of money in those times, so Rare Sights Indeed, even for the Very Top Players, few if any of which had Brand New Gibson's, Martins, or Fenders, and I am referring to the Regular, Standard Models of the Day, not Glitzy, Custom, Ornate, Museum Pieces, of the Type that Ren Ferguson has Happily been able to Indulge Himself with.

 

 

 

In order to be able to own a Hand Made.

 

Elite, Premium End Product, fabricated from the Rarest and Finest Materials.

 

One would not only need to be Extremely Wealthy Indeed, but the Scarcity of Materials and the Time Taken to Manufacture a Single Instrument.

 

Introduces a Cost Per Units Curve, that Exponentially Soars Upwardly with the most Rapidly Stratospheric Climb Rate one could Imagine. It represents but a Tiny Sector of the Guitar Market, requiring Few, if any Additional Employees at all over a Single Talented Luthier, and in reality, does not serve Genuine Working Musicians at all, beyond the odd Artist with a Worldwide Reputation and commensurate Bank Balance.

 

Not only is it a Recipe for a One Man Outfit. Very few Talented Luthiers indeed, are making a Sustainably Good Living, following that Model of Business. In truth, Ren's Renowned Global Reputation, has benefitted and owes a Great Deal to his Working for Gibson for so long, just as Gibson's Renowned Reputation has benefitted and owes a Great Deal to his Working for Gibson for so long.

 

But Manufacturing Instruments, Cost Effectively, and Making a Sound Profit is what Facilitates and Pays For Extraordinary Work such as the Ornate, Commemoration Museum Guitars that are rightly, Greatly Admired.

 

It's easy to Forget That, in our Enthusiasm for Craftsmanship, and our Admiration of Ren Ferguson.

 

Someone, Somewhere has to Make the Profit and Pay a Premium to Enable it to Happen.

 

 

 

Design is Important.

 

Quality is Important.

 

Volume is Important.

 

 

 

It's one thing to Design an Original Product.

 

But another thing entirely, to Product Engineer, a Cost Effective Way to Manufacture that Original Design for a Price, Working Musicians can Afford.

 

When the Finest, Most Ideal, High Class Materials and Talented, Hand Making Luthier Skills, are both Rare and Expensive. Producing High Quality Instruments, in a Totally Consistent Manner, Utilising Material that all Guitarists know, Varies from Tree to Tree, is a Demanding Challenge. So Manufacturing High Quality with Insistently Relentless Consistency, is Yet Another Element to Consider.

 

Designing and Manufacturing a High Quality, Desirable Product for the Marketplace, with a Factory Efficiency that makes the Cost Per Unit, Affordable to Working Musicians. Yet Enables a Sound Profit Margin. A Profit Margin that Ensures the Future of the Company, Secures All the Jobs in the face of the Most Intense Foreign Competition, (which doesn't face anything like the same of Level and Costs of Labour and Government Regulation), and Enables Future Capital Investment into the Development of New Product Lines, is the real "Trick" that has to be "Pulled Off".

 

 

 

Designing a Great, Original Product is just One Part of the Equation.

 

Fabrication of a Highly Ornate Product, with Unlimited Constraints upon Rarity of Material and Labour Time Involved, another thing entirely.

 

But when you have to recoup your Initial Capital Investment, Fund Future Capital Investment, Invest in Research, Development and Engineering of New Products, Market and Advertise Globally, Fund Overseas Ventures, Fund and Obtain Manufacturing Materials that simply lay there Seasoning, Pay for your Factory Buildings, Machinery and Employees, along with all the Logistics of Marketing Worldwide.

 

And Still Produce a High Quality, Exceptionally Desirable Product, Cost Effectively for a Price that an Economically Squeezed World can Afford, in the face of Very Hot, Largely Unregulated Foreign Competition and Still make a Worthwhile Profit that makes it worth getting up in the morning for.

 

Well, I for one, understand, "That" Requires a "Talent for Business", that in its Own Way is Just as Important as the Redoubtable Talent of Ren Ferguson, who as I stated earlier, I Admire Immensely, and not least for his Affordable, but Brilliant "Songwriter" Acoustic. It is a Modern Classic!

 

With the Global Economic Squeeze it would appear Gibson's Acoustic Guitar Strategy is to Produce Brand New Models that conveniently utlilise Existing Manufacturing Tooling, so require little if any New Capital.

 

Some Models use Different Wood Types to Established Norms, but the Instruments Cost to a Purchaser, is Relatively Competitive against similar shaped, Previous Gibson Products.

 

That the Factories continue to Make and Sell Desirable Guitars that Sound Great and people want to buy, is the Central Issue, and beyond all Personalities.

 

I have Seen and Heard some of these New, Affordable Models used by Top Professional Players to Very Impressive Sonic Effect on Stage.

 

It's important to appreciate Gibson's Product and Marketing Strategy that is Conservatively Focused on Sustaining Heritage.

 

Whilst Innovating with Familiar but Affordable New Products, in a Challenging Global Economic Environment.

 

The Guitar Business is not simply about Guitars alone.

 

It's also about Business.

 

 

 

Or we would just be writing about Guitar History.

[E-minor7]

Volume is Important.

 

 

Still I wish you could boil your posts a bit down, Buckeridge -

[slimt]

Ren put Gibson Acoustic in a path for a quality instrument and he succeeded , and focused on a Guitar that would be a long lasting , Quality Built Guitar with High standards in mind.. when someone higher can say.. we are not doing anymore custom shop guitars with a higher standard, and can put those in a mix of standard built run guitars.. to me that loses the integrity of a High standards quality guitar maker. now you pay for a label with printed matter looking like your getting more than you really are.. any computer guru can put a design into a machine to stamp out fancy designs.. but you lose that personal touch that is really paid for. Not only that.. you lose a top notch bunch of talented people that know how to build guitars . instead its money over matter.. ...

 

whos idea was it to laminate bridges and Fretboards.. ? to me ,, thats just being cheap.. . thats what you find on a overseas made guitar. I have bought a few new Gibson acoustics.... But I cannot stand the fact that a custom shop label can be put on a run of the mill production run guitar.. Nothing on that guitar shows top notch skill for the money paid.

[bobouz]

Still I wish you could boil your posts a bit down, Buckeridge -

Personally, I rather enjoy Anthony's occasional head-scratchers!

[duluthdan]

Personally, I rather enjoy Anthony's occasional head-scratchers!

agree. His is a beautiful mind. I think it would be fun beyond fun to sit and have coffee with Ren and inquire about laminated bridges, mounting holes, Tusq vs Bone, Ebony Pins vs Plastic, strap buttons and pickups. What I am saying is... someone should make a Part iV.

[IanHenry]

"whos idea was it to laminate bridges and Fretboards.. ? to me ,, thats just being cheap.. . thats what you find on a overseas made guitar. I have bought a few new Gibson acoustics.... But I cannot stand the fact that a custom shop label can be put on a run of the mill production run guitar.. Nothing on that guitar shows top notch skill for the money paid"

 

I'm not quite sure I understand this, which guitars have laminated Bridges and Fretboards? I also have Yamaha & Takamine guitars, and I'm sure they have solid timber Bridge & Fretboard.

 

 

Ian