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Chibson getting better.


LarryUK
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To each their own, as long as ppl sell them as counterfeits when they move away from them, I don't know that I care one way or another.

 

but to gak someone for $2k+, which unfortunately happens alot... that just grabs my gonads..

 

But at the end of the day, as long as ppl are buying, they will keep making em...

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i would agree that fakes are/should be illegal. however, what i saw in that video is a guitar that doesn't look so bad at all. sure i can see stuff that doesn't exactly match gibby. so what? their (gibson's) way of doing things ain't the only way. not even the only "right way". some of it is actually the wrong way. the more important lesson one should take from this video is just how much guitar you can get for so cheap. i know it feels good for some folks to self righteously puff their chest and cry foul every time they see a fake. it's worthless to do so while ignoring many other important facts. if i was a kid w/0 much money and wanted a sweet les paul, i would buy a fake and not lose 1 second of sleep over it. henry j doesn't lose any sleep while i struggle to pay my bills. he'll still make payments on his yacht and his huge houses and fancy cars whether a handful of guys don't buy his guitars or not. these days you make a product people can buy or they'll buy the product they can

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i would agree that fakes are/should be illegal. however, what i saw in that video is a guitar that doesn't look so bad at all. sure i can see stuff that doesn't exactly match gibby. so what? their (gibson's) way of doing things ain't the only way. not even the only "right way". some of it is actually the wrong way. the more important lesson one should take from this video is just how much guitar you can get for so cheap. i know it feels good for some folks to self righteously puff their chest and cry foul every time they see a fake. it's worthless to do so while ignoring many other important facts. if i was a kid w/0 much money and wanted a sweet les paul, i would buy a fake and not lose 1 second of sleep over it. henry j doesn't lose any sleep while i struggle to pay my bills. he'll still make payments on his yacht and his huge houses and fancy cars whether a handful of guys don't buy his guitars or not. these days you make a product people can buy or they'll buy the product they can

You mention the other side of the coin. However, I think it still doesn't justify making and selling counterfeits, let alone buying them and into the bargain feel good about it. There is a reason why Gibson run Epiphone.

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I agree with Cap, if you want an asian Guitar with Gibson shape and good quality Epi is the way to go.

 

Or maybe if they would do it like the guy in this video.....

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KFoP0JaF5Hs&feature=youtube_gdata_player

 

He custom ordered a LP shaped body with his name on the headstock. And was even smart enough to tell them to NOT put any craplectronics into it saving some cash!

I was suprised that there is a Chibson Custom Shop....bwahahha!!

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I checked the site he mentioned and these guitar shaped pieces of firewood seem to start at c $250 US each.

Dude says "I've had 4 of these..."

Hang on, how much does a nice new LP Studio cost?

 

Have fun mr dude.

Yes, but if he's had four of those what's he done with the rest of them? Could be some poor unsuspecting people have bought them as the real thing.

 

 

Ian

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Maybe they could have an "Unboxers" reality show. Some cheapo guys (there wouldn't be gals involved 'cause they just don't do stuff this stupid) with questionable accents doing unboxing videos of fake cheapo garbage yellow-taped merchandise that smells like light machine oil. They could offer advice about how garbage is not as bad as you think and how garbage isn't that much worse than something you would never buy anyway. And how it's not that bad to be a person who buys garbage. They can call this episode "Garbarrage." [biggrin]

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You mention the other side of the coin. However, I think it still doesn't justify making and selling counterfeits, let alone buying them and into the bargain feel good about it. There is a reason why Gibson run Epiphone.

 

 

no, makin g a decent guitar doesn't justify copying someone else's design. i totally agree with you. however, some people write them off as junk simply because they are fakes. those people are deliberately obtuse, or willfully ignorant of the truth. that gets on my nerves. it's like saying to your buddy "i don't like that guy over there. he looks like an american, but he's actually italian, so he must be an a-hole". when if he got to know the guy, he might actually be pretty cool, but a little different than what you're used to. some epis are nice guitars. how many people here know many of them are made in china? how many of those know that many of the chinese fakes are made in the exact same factory as those epis, and much of their hardware and electronics end up in those guitars? suddenly you can't say those chinese guitars suck, while saying epis do not suck. i've had some high end epiphones. one of them had the open book headstock on it. but as nice as it was, resale was **** because it says epi, not gibby. no one considered it a "real" les paul, even though it cost new over $800 in the early 90's. in today's money that's about $1400. so you immediately devalue the guitar when purchased by over a grand right off the bat. now which sounds like the better deal? the exact same guitar can be bought for $300 and it will still sell for $250 a couple years later. it's easy to be a middle aged man with a decent job and pish posh someone forced to get the most bang for their buck by supporting copyright infringement. not so easy if your 18 and living in mom's basement.

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... some epis are nice guitars. how many people here know many of them are made in china? how many of those know that many of the chinese fakes are made in the exact same factory as those epis, and much of their hardware and electronics end up in those guitars? suddenly you can't say those chinese guitars suck, while saying epis do not suck. ...

I know my Epiphone 1960 Tribute LP was made in PRC, albeit with Gibson USA, Switchcraft, CTS and Mallory electronics stock as well as sealed Grover auto-locking machine heads. She is an exceptionally great guitar, doubtlessly fitting right between the five of my Gibson LPs, with the different feels of the finishes being the biggest difference. Seriously. And same seriously, it was an eighth of the price of the two similarly equipped Gibson LP Standards of mine.

 

As I said before, I think faking brand and country of origin is the very point. This is what really sucks and completely devaluates such instruments to my senses. I don't have any problem with playing a honest Epiphone, but I would have a problem with playing an instrument with a bogus brand logo. I wouldn't even want to do that alone at home. It simply is crooked to my feel.

 

"Mundus vult decipi, ergo decipiatur" as already the old Romans said: "The world wants to be deceived, so let's deceive it." Me for myself and my way of life disapprove this attitude.

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.

It's ridiculous to defend illegal counterfeit fakes with nonsense about getting the best deal, depreciation, and people who can't afford Epiphones. Total bullshit. There are plenty of legit manufactures putting out legal guitars priced in that ultra cheap $100 to $300 price point. For example GC has 2,523 guitars listed priced from $25 to $300 - you can check 'em out here. All legit and legal - no illegal counterfeit fakes.

 

 

.

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no, makin g a decent guitar doesn't justify copying someone else's design. i totally agree with you. however, some people write them off as junk simply because they are fakes. those people are deliberately obtuse, or willfully ignorant of the truth. that gets on my nerves. it's like saying to your buddy "i don't like that guy over there. he looks like an american, but he's actually italian, so he must be an a-hole". when if he got to know the guy, he might actually be pretty cool, but a little different than what you're used to. some epis are nice guitars. how many people here know many of them are made in china? how many of those know that many of the chinese fakes are made in the exact same factory as those epis, and much of their hardware and electronics end up in those guitars? suddenly you can't say those chinese guitars suck, while saying epis do not suck. i've had some high end epiphones. one of them had the open book headstock on it. but as nice as it was, resale was **** because it says epi, not gibby. no one considered it a "real" les paul, even though it cost new over $800 in the early 90's. in today's money that's about $1400. so you immediately devalue the guitar when purchased by over a grand right off the bat. now which sounds like the better deal? the exact same guitar can be bought for $300 and it will still sell for $250 a couple years later. it's easy to be a middle aged man with a decent job and pish posh someone forced to get the most bang for their buck by supporting copyright infringement. not so easy if your 18 and living in mom's basement.

 

Couple things.

 

1) The resale value of a counterfeit Gibson is $0 It is illegal to sell them so unless you find a poor chap to pawn your fake les paul on, you shouldn't get any return for it.

 

2) The value of a used Epiphone percentage wise is probably similar to a Gibson. I bought my LP studio 10 years ago for $1,000. On Craigslist, that same model sells for about $500. I think the same can be said for a standard or custom LP...perhaps it doesn't lose 50% value, but it is certainly much less than new. Unless you have some original 50's burst or a guitar with some distinctive pedigree, your guitar is not going to gain value. Sorry.

 

3) It has been said that the 'chibsons' made in those Epiphone factories are built from parts that are rejected from Epiphone so the same factory argument seems silly.

 

4) Save up your money and buy a used Gibson or an Epiphone for gosh sake.

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It is interesting to see just how cheaply a pretty looking electric guitar can actually be profitably made and sold and shipped around the world, albeit in an environment where quality control is not an issue and wages are close to zero. Quite an eye-opener.

 

Irrespective of whether the buyer is a middle aged man (as these unboxing guys seem to be) or a young basement dweller, how many of them would buy these if the logo said 'Scales' or 'Kuma' or anything other than Gibson? ...bugger-all I'd guess. So is it about being the only access to a new affordable guitar?

 

There are arguments can be made either way so it's an interesting discussion.

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So is it about being the only access to a new affordable guitar?

 

There are arguments can be made either way so it's an interesting discussion.

 

 

.

It's ridiculous to defend illegal counterfeit fakes with nonsense about getting the best deal, depreciation, and people who can't afford Epiphones. Total bullshit. There are plenty of legit manufactures putting out legal guitars priced in that ultra cheap $100 to $300 price point. For example GC has 2,523 guitars listed priced from $25 to $300 - you can check 'em out here. All legit and legal - no illegal counterfeit fakes.

 

 

.

 

Nope, Scales, I think its about wanting (to be seen with?) the name brand but not wanting to pay for it.

 

 

Same reason why Rolex watches and Louis Vuitton purses are also heavily counterfeited.

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On principle, of which I have few [biggrin] , I will not buy counterfeits. I find trying to pass something off as the real deal unedifying plus, in my case, I can well afford to purchase a legit item - and that encompasses the less expensive to the rather expensive guitars. Just my take on things.

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My thought is fakes should be fully illegal........everyone can say "as long as you tell the buyer" all you want, but somewhere/sometime it will be sold mistaken as a real Gibson.

In my opinion, anyone who would knowingly buy one is part of the problem!!!!.........sorry, but that's how I feel.

 

That same manufacturer could put their own name on them and sell them for the same price legally........they look pretty decent for the 250 range.

 

These have nothing to do with an affordable guitar.........there are tons of those out there........they only have to do with deception.

 

I'm sure as mentioned above, most are sold to the "Look at me, I have a Gibson" crowd, but most of those will not still be playing in ten years, so now those get released out into the world.

 

 

Sorry if I offend anyone, but if you are not part of the solution, you are part of the problem.

 

NHTom

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When I was a teenager me and my mates all played "affordable" guitars by company's like Antoria. CSL and Ibanez, all of them unashamed Les Paul copies (there was no way we could afford a real Gibson, back then there were no ceaper Gibson models as there are today) but none of them said Gibson on the headstock, and in my eyes that's where the serious fraud is.

 

All the people I know who played those copies went on to play real Gibson's so I guess in a sense the copies worked as a marketing tool for Gibson in a bizarre kind of way.

 

Selling guitars with Gibson on the headstock and "made in the USA" on it is just not on.

 

 

Ian

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