AFTER MARKET add ons to your Gibson?

[LWAG]

So I bought myself a used 2005 R7 last November

 

and I had a Tone Pros bridge and a Slash Signature Seymour Duncan set of pickups installed...

 

then I found out an owner before me had MusiCap capacitors installed.

And idk how I feel about that, sure, my guitar sounds great, I guess, but, could it sound better with stock capacitors?

[Rabs]

If it sounds great.. Leave it be :) Some people prefer PIO caps. I don't know if its all in my head or not but to me they do sound a tad warmer than ceramic ones... It probably doesn't make much difference though..

 

But if you do try it let is know what you think.

 

And wheres the picture of the front of the guitar? :)

 

Personally when I buy a guitar I buy it cos I like how it sounds looks and feels so I don't really go in for mods but plenty of people do..

[LWAG]

If it sounds great.. Leave it be :) Some people prefer PIO caps. I don't know if its all in my head or not but to me they do sound a tad warmer than ceramic ones... It probably doesn't make much difference though..

 

But if you do try it let is know what you think.

 

And wheres the picture of the front of the guitar? :)

 

Personally when I buy a guitar I buy it cos I like how it sounds looks and feels so I don't really go in for mods but plenty of people do..

I actually haven't been bothered to take pictures of it on its own yet, always next to my first Gibson.

This is it though.

[LWAG]

Amp on 1 watt mode

 

Amp on 5 watt mode

[LarryUK]

An R series Les Paul shouldn't need anything doing to it. isn't it supposed to be the closest thing to the real item? If you want to mod it buy a standard.

[pippy]

I'm with Rabs and Larry here. I'm not interested in guitars which don't sound and play great 'stock'.

 

The only modification I've made on any of my guitars was to one of my LP 1960 Classics (bought used) which came with a matching set of Seymour Duncan 'Antiquities' and a pair of ceramic caps already swapped-in. The guitar unplugged sounded absolutely superb but after spending a few weeks experimenting with judicious knob-twiddling I still felt the plugged tone was not quite up to the guitar's potential. I fitted a pair of PIO caps and, much to my surprise (I'm a dyed-in-the-wool sceptic), they opened up the overall sound as I hoped - but doubted - they might. It now sounds superb amplified, too.

 

Other than that?

The neck p'up in a Tele I was gifted could do with a bit more oomph as there's quite a volume disparity 'twixt neck and bridge with the vol. knob fully open.

Out of curiosity I'd also like to try fitting a 3-way switch in the Strat in place of the 5-way just to see if the current 3-way fare works in the same fashion as did the one in my long-departed '64.

 

That's about it.

 

Pip.

[kelly campbell]

The only thing I have ever done is add a strap pin to an acoustic. Part of my problem I guess maybe the fact that I just was never one to tinker with things...if I dont like something I just find one I do like.

[LWAG]

An R series Les Paul shouldn't need anything doing to it. isn't it supposed to be the closest thing to the real item? If you want to mod it buy a standard.

I'd rather mod a VOS.

 

However, I'm still wondering if I'd be better off going for stock capacitors.

I bought mine used and those MusiCap capacitors was an aftermarket mod done by a former owner (and I bought the guitar unplugged based on tone and weight and feel).

 

Maybe I'm paranoid about tone, or maybe I'd be happier with stock capacitors?

 

Or maybe they're also what makes my Gibson R7 different than another, like the Hot Rod 'mine is upgraded' mentality that wonders why have the same as everyone else?

But then, I could be missing out on what I want.

 

IDK, it sounds great, but because it's a Gibson VOS. IDK if the MusiCaps are taking from that.

 

I'd still have modded it with the same bridge and pickups though, that's on me/I'm owing that one.

[zigzag]

When I owned my Studio LP, I made no mods. The mods made to my ES-335 were from necessity- a different bridge due to intonation issues with thicker flat wounds, and a bone nut because the slots on the stock nut were cut too deep, and I was also having issues with pull-offs on the first string (this may have been due to issues with frets, so I had the slots moved in very slightly). The 57 Classic pickups can get a little muddy without tweaking. If I had to make another mod, it would be to more articulate pickups, but I hate to change out Gibson's best pickups. I've already done that with an Epi Dot.

[pippy]

...I'm still wondering if I'd be better off going for stock capacitors...

To a large extent it rather depends on what you are looking for and why you are looking for it.

Stock capacitors on an R7 are 'fake' (i.e. not PIO) Bumblebees. But this is where it starts to get slightly awkward...

 

Originally the caps fitted to the original '52-'59 Les Pauls, as a general rule, were all PIO. Different varieties of caps were used by Gibson including (but not limited to) Grey Tigers, Black Beauties and, of course 'bees. The problem is that Gibson not only used suppliers other than Sprague they also used different types of caps and to make matters worse from the 'Historical Accuracy' point of view, the 'bees used by late '59 early '60 (IIRC) were rolled-foil and not PIO...which therefore makes the 'fake' 'bees in modern '59-'60 reissues historically accurate!

 

If you want to return your R7 to stock spec then Bumblebees are readily available - if costly. Otherwise there are dozens and dozens of manufacturers who are replicating PIO caps for the Vintage Guitar Market. A much cheaper solution would be to buy NOS PIO Russian caps. These cost pennies as opposed to pounds and are every bit as likely to deliver the warm, creaminess associated (by some ears) with PIO.

 

If you would like to find some decent alternatives to Sprague 'bees then google is your friend!

 

Pip.

[merciful-evans]

I've only made mods to cheaper guitars in order to bring them more on par with the higher end ones (hardwear & wiring usually).

 

Sometimes mods will put future buyers off.

 

I was looking at a sweet LP DC recently, but when I learned that the pickups had been swapped out for SDs, I dropped it like a hot brick. Similar story with a Hagstrom a few years back. In both instances the sellers had not retained the original pickups.

 

As for capacitors. I cant tell the difference personally. Neither can my luthier. So I agree with the others here. If it sounds great then leave it be.

[kidblast]

Man.. pippy, dude you are like a walking wikipedia site...

[LWAG]

When I owned my Studio LP, I made no mods. The mods made to my ES-335 were from necessity- a different bridge due to intonation issues with thicker flat wounds, and a bone nut because the slots on the stock nut were cut too deep, and I was also having issues with pull-offs on the first string (this may have been due to issues with frets, so I had the slots moved in very slightly). The 57 Classic pickups can get a little muddy without tweaking. If I had to make another mod, it would be to more articulate pickups, but I hate to change out Gibson's best pickups. I've already done that with an Epi Dot.

When I bought my 1996 Gibson Custom Shop used in 2011, the only mod I had done to that guitar was have a set of the pickups I like installed (months after);

A previous owner (because it wasn't Gibson) even put on a set of the strap lock system that I use on it, so I didn't even have to do that.

 

When it came to finding/buying my used Gibson R7 in 2017 (November), it had 'the other strap lock system installed, don't know what it's called', and they told me of their aftercare plan would have them install the ones I wanted if I brought it to them; so I went out to another store (same small street in London/Denmark St. - didn't have to walk far at all) while I left it with them to fetch the case and scratch plate.

I came back with the strap lock system buttons (and new strap) soon enough, they said it'll take 30 minutes to do; so I asked them about pickups, again, they never had the ones I like in stock, but same deal 'I bring them the part, they'd put it in included in their after purchase care plan; so I went back out, found my pickups in a third shop there; Guitar: NoTom - Strap lock system: Regent Sounds - Pickups: Wunjo Guitars. - Found a variant of the pickups I like that I've heard of but never used or tried, and was the closest I could find to take advantage of my after purchase installation care plan (and they were in my favourite colour for this pickup, a first for me ever knowing that existed); took them in, and when my guitar came back to me, it was really cool looking.

Got home with it, compared it next to my first Gibson (a Gibson Les Paul)... and noticed I didn't like the bridge on my Gibson VOS as much as the bridge Gibson had put into my 1996 Gibson Custom Shop that I love, and then I remembered (being the Guns N' Roses/Slash fan) of this guitar bridge he liked called Tone Pros, and Tone Pros were a part/a product/a brand I had heard of, but have never used (I've used Schaller, Floyd Rose Origingal Trem & Fishman bridges when modding, but never Tone Pros); So I went to sleep;

Woke up, took my Gibson R7 with all new strap lock system and pickups, to get a new Tone Pros at Feline Guitars in Croydon (and to show them my new buy) 'it's always handy having local business know what you've got so lest anything ever happens to it and it resurfaces with someone trying to sell it; they could then identify it as stolen if I ever say to the world such and such was stolen, having the local guitar people know what you've got, is always handy' plus it's always good to show guitar enthusiasts your stuff - but the main reason I took it to them is because I trust them with my stuff and they're in town (Croydon) and they have Tone Pros and could install them, so off I went, and in less than 24 hours my guitar was done.

 

 

Then later I found out about the MusiCap capacitors and non Gibson relic job.

(Rare finish saught out guitar in budget I fell in love with unplugged to hear the wood, what you gonna do)?

I get what I get on the used guitar scene.

 

 

Still wondering about if there's any difference in tone and capacitors tbh though.

 

 

Also, finding out some previous owner aged it, I'm not too happy about, I mean, sure, it looks cool, but I'd rather they didn't.

Though for one hot minute I thought I might have scored a genuine 1957 when Gibson said they didn't do it and it's the same number as a 1957; but that minute passed when I saw the R7 stamp and rang Gibson up to see if I had a 1995 (because it still looked old and it's an every 10 year thing of a 1957 since 1995) and that when Gibson told me what each colour/finish these guitars had including the 2005 one I bought being correct, and that's how I know Gibson didn't age mine but someone else did.

[badbluesplayer]

Something seems funny with the wiring scheme in there. You might want to check that over and make sure it makes sense. The grounding between the pots doesn't seem right either. Not sure.

[Rabs]

LWAG..

 

Do you mind if I ask how long you have been playing?

 

One of the things I find when talking to people about tone and what someone may expect is its all about experience. Finding your tone and what makes you happy in terms of the gear you use changes as you go down the road. I think a lot of people tend to over think about pickups and caps.. If you play with your settings more you will find that theres more to a LP than most people realise.

 

This is a good example

[pippy]

Man.. pippy, dude you are like a walking wikipedia site...

 

Nah, not at all. It's all just further evidence of my ongoing mis-spent youth middle age...

 

FWIW the info I wrote above is just a tiny fraction of what I discovered when I was researching original caps a few years ago when I was considering how to approach improving the 1960 Classic I mentioned earlier. I couldn't believe how much info there is out there on the minutiae of 1950's PIO caps and their alternatives - both vintage and modern...

 

Pip.

[Rabs]

Something seems funny with the wiring scheme in there. You might want to check that over and make sure it makes sense. The grounding between the pots doesn't seem right either. Not sure.

Agreed.. that does look a bit odd.. Certainly not standard Gibson wiring.

[LWAG]

In all honesty, with this Gibson R7, I'm at a stage seeing if I can live with it in my amp's Input II designed for higher inputs, tbh.

Sounds even better, but I've got to get used to it again.

That said, I've always loved my wah pedal through that Input II channel on my amp on this Gibson R7, so direct guitar to that with these higher capacitors, maybe?That's what I'm on at the moment; tonally with my set up/rig/gear.

 

This guitar with these capacitors I never ordered, which I don't really hate, but I'm all trying to figure out.

[LWAG]

Agreed.. that does look a bit odd.. Certainly not standard Gibson wiring.

My trusted local luthier/Feline Guitars educated me on my after market MusiCap pickups and reassured me they were a quality product and an upgrade. - based on that photo alone, he named them, and told me they wasn't bad, and were like an upgrade.

Instagram and that photo with the hashtag #musicap confirms that my guitar guy/luthier/Feline Guitars know what they're talking about, as I've seen them with this hashtag - I mean, it's not in your face, but they're there (other posts with the same capacitor); and they're made in USA (like the rest of the guitar) and now I'm at the stage wondering what's the difference in sound and do I love it or hate it (hoping for the former).

[Rabs]

My trusted local luthier/Feline Guitars educated me on my after market MusiCap pickups and reassured me they were a quality product and an upgrade. - based on that photo alone, he named them, and told me they wasn't bad, and were like an upgrade.

Instagram and that photo with the hashtag #musicap confirms that my guitar guy/luthier/Feline Guitars know what they're talking about, as I've seen them with this hashtag - I mean, it's not in your face, but they're there (other posts with the same capacitor); and they're made in USA (like the rest of the guitar) and now I'm at the stage wondering what's the difference in sound and do I love it or hate it (hoping for the former).

Im not saying theres anything wrong.. Theres many ways to wire a guitar but if you are interested in what it should be stock then that wiring arrangement is not... And yes id say those caps were an upgrade too..

 

[MichaelT]

Im not saying theres anything wrong.. Theres many ways to wire a guitar but if you are interested in what it should be stock then that wiring arrangement is not... And yes id say those caps were an upgrade too..

 

 

Hey Rabs and/or anyone else knowledgeable, what's the difference in the two wiring schematics? I SEE the difference but what difference does it make in tone/volume?

[Rabs]

Hey Rabs and/or anyone else knowledgeable, what's the difference in the two wiring schematics? I SEE the difference but what difference does it make in tone/volume?

Others can probably explain it better.. But from what I remember

 

With 50s wiring when you roll off the volume, there is no effect on the tone. The tone stays consistent and there is no treble roll off BUT you can lose a little volume when rolling off on the tone controls.

 

With modern wiring the tone control does not affect your overall volume BUT when you roll off the volume you lose a little treble from your tone.

 

Roughly.

[pippy]

...from what I remember with 50s wiring when you roll off the volume, there is no effect on the tone. The tone stays consistent and there is no treble roll off BUT you can lose a little volume when rolling off on the tone controls...

Really?............I'm certainly not going to argue with you about it, Rabs, because you know your stuff but that's not how it works on either of my reissues (nor, for that matter, my '50s wired 1960 Classics). In my case it works like this;

I have my amp set for a little bit of break up when the guitar's Vol. & Tone are at 10. If I roll-off the vol. (even by as little as 0.3 of a mark) as the vol. drops, the tone cleans-up (has a bit more treble) and the Hint-of-Lint edge to the tone disappears. Admittedly I use very unconventional Guitar and Amp tone settings(*) in the first place so my experience might be considerably abnormal...

 

Pip.

 

(*) I often go for a tone which sounds a bit like, say, Peter Green's tone on F-M's "Merry Go Round" cut. For that I'd use the following settings (it does get close);

Amp (Music Man 2x12 Sixty Five) : Channel Vol. 7-7.5; Treble 10; Mid 0; Bass 0; Bright switch On; Deep/Normal (Bass Boost) Off. Master Vol. As Required.

Guitar (1995 R0 gets me the closest) : Rhythm Vol. 8.5; Tone 2.5 - 3.5. Lead Vol. 8; Tone 3.5-4.

Wind up the Vol. and, as explained earlier, there is a reduction in the treble frequencies and a slight amount of Dirt accompanies the increase in volume.

Using these rough settings as a starting point I find I can almost (but not quite) mimic an o-o-p sound in the middle position. It takes a subtle change in pick-attack and quite a bit of minor fiddling-about with all 4 controls but it does get me there...nearly!

 

Edit : Anyone else like to try these rough settings to see what they get? I'd also very much like to see what others use to get a similar end-tone!

[Rabs]

Really?............I'm certainly not going to argue with you about it, Rabs, because you know your stuff but that's not how it works on either of my reissues (nor, for that matter, my '50s wired 1960 Classics).

Well that's why I said im not quite sure and other people can explain it better.. I may have got it the wrong way around but as far as I know that's the main difference.. Could be wrong..

 

The thing is I think people worry about this sort of thing a bit too much.. If you like the way your guitar sounds stop worrying if it could be better and concentrate more on technique and practice.. that's what I reckon anyway. Like you I buy guitars I like the sound of stock and I keep them that way.. I don't question how they sound or if they would be better with PIOs or what ever. Im guessing people who do feel that either should buy a different guitar in the first place (which happens) or its just GAS... Wishing for something you cant ever quite find (if you know what I mean).

[rct]

A guitar wired traditionally will sound like a blanket thrown over it when you back the volume down. It the 70's it was fairly common to take them in for a cap job pretty quickly, Fenders and Gibsons.

 

Gibson started putting in fancy cap jobs from the factory and calling some of them "50's Wiring", even thought they weren't exactly like they were back then.

 

They also made some Re-issues that were wired straight out, no cap jobs, to provide that muffled jazz tone by just rolling off a little.

 

That's my recollection of it all, and I could of course be wrong.

 

I've noticed of late that the other electric guitar maker is sorta touting their pre-capped cap jobs so goofs like me don't have to get them capped for retention of highs purposes only.

 

Other than that, capping them with anything does nothing. Retention of highs when rolling volume off, that's what a cap job is for.

 

rct