??

[PrairieSchooner]

If you look on the bay there are a gazillion Gibsons offered - guitars, banjos, mandos, et al - from Japan.  Just wondering how/why/when they all got over there, and why so many from there are for sale?  Legit, or scams, or...?  Not looking to buy one, just one of those things  ya wonder about when there's nothing much else going on.

Edited January 6, 2023 by PrairieSchooner

[Dave F]

Everyone I’ve looked at seems it had issues.  If you look close, you’ll see the same guitar listed by a dozen different sellers.  Everyone looked over priced. Returns require buyer pays shipping. 
I filter them out, I don’t want to look at them. 

[ksdaddy]

It's legit, they just bought years ago when the market was right for them to do so. Now they are selling them back to us at many times what they paid. Capitalism at it's best, not begrudging that, but their prices are horrific.

[rct]

Because in the early mid 90's to early mid 2000's every guitar show had a table or three that took up three or four floor spaces.  At those tables were two or three Japanese guys or their representatives with briefcases full of cash.  People walked in with their "vintage" Fenders and Gibsons and Martins and got sick money for them, on the spot.  It was the rabid inflation of the vintage guitar bubble.  They took all of those guitars out of the country and back to Japan where they could presumably sell them on for even sicker money, considering currency exchange and stuff.  Well, in the end, that didn't work out so great for anyone.  The American dealers were just buying/selling the same few hundred vintage guitars back and forth through each other while the Japanese had taken a good portion of the remaining American vintage guitars out of America.  And the bubble popped and the American dealers were ending up stuck with their 50,000 dollar crappy old guitars and the Japanese were stuck with the lions share of old guitars.  They've been trying to sell them back to us for a long time now.  They are just old guitars, they can figure out creative ways to eat them.

rct

[Sgt. Pepper]

Japan can keep them for all I care. Vintage is for Joe Bonamassa. 

[62burst]

1 hour ago, rct said:

Because. . . 

RCT sums up fairly well what is going on there, especially with respect to  how the guitars ended up in Japan, re: the Big Guitar Shows, and Selling England (American culture, in this case) by the Pound. As Dave mentioned, the guitars can have issues, and the shipping expense and it's risk greatly increases the likelihood of a "just live with it" situation when even offered the unlikely possibility of a return.

The multiple sellers of the same guitar is bizarre, though. If the shop where the guitar is actually located is the less expensive listing, they'll most likely get the sale. Whether or not the other seller(s) are affiliated with that shop is another matter.

[rct]

1 minute ago, 62burst said:

RCT sums up fairly well what is going on there, especially with respect to  how the guitars ended up in Japan, re: the Big Guitar Shows, and Selling England (American culture, in this case) by the Pound. As Dave mentioned, the guitars can have issues, and the shipping expense and it's risk greatly increases the likelihood of a "just live with it" situation when even offered the unlikely possibility of a return.

The multiple sellers of the same guitar is bizarre, though. If the shop where the guitar is actually located is the less expensive listing, they'll most likely get the sale. Whether or not the other seller(s) are affiliated with that shop is another matter.

The people with the money behind all of that were, or became, some sort of guitar brokers.  The broker gets multiple shops and even individual sellers to hawk them and makes the best deal  he can with each seller.  We don't really do that here. Yet.

rct

[zombywoof]

2 hours ago, rct said:

Because in the early mid 90's to early mid 2000's every guitar show had a table or three that took up three or four floor spaces.  At those tables were two or three Japanese guys or their representatives with briefcases full of cash.  People walked in with their "vintage" Fenders and Gibsons and Martins and got sick money for them, on the spot.  It was the rabid inflation of the vintage guitar bubble.  They took all of those guitars out of the country and back to Japan where they could presumably sell them on for even sicker money, considering currency exchange and stuff.  Well, in the end, that didn't work out so great for anyone.  The American dealers were just buying/selling the same few hundred vintage guitars back and forth through each other while the Japanese had taken a good portion of the remaining American vintage guitars out of America.  And the bubble popped and the American dealers were ending up stuck with their 50,000 dollar crappy old guitars and the Japanese were stuck with the lions share of old guitars.  They've been trying to sell them back to us for a long time now.  They are just old guitars, they can figure out creative ways to eat them.

rct

I used to see that at the Dallas Guitar Show but earlier than you did.

[E-minor7]

1 hour ago, 62burst said:

The multiple sellers of the same guitar is bizarre, though. If the shop where the guitar is actually located is the less expensive listing, they'll most likely get the sale. Whether or not the other seller(s) are affiliated with that shop is another matter.

Well, they plug into the same main storage and that concept wasn't invented yesterday. The whole scene is kind of unattractive, but that's the way of the world. There was wave 10-15 years ago where Americans (actually) bought old local artefacts out of here - paintings, furniture, vintage kitchen items, just stuff. Then the rich Russians took over, , ,  and probably many others. . 

On the base-line the government should regulate what goes out and not. Like regarding the woods, , , , and the heavy cultural monuments/documents etc. .

[Murph]

10 hours ago, E-minor7 said:

 

On the base-line the government should regulate what goes out and not. Like regarding the woods, , , , and the heavy cultural monuments/documents etc. .

Can we trust the government to do anything?

I'd rather leave you in charge of guitar exports.

There, that's done....

[E-minor7]

5 hours ago, Murph said:

Can we trust the government to do anything?

I'd rather leave you in charge of guitar exports.

There, that's done....

 Well, you may have a point.

But based on what should regulations be drawn. And if this is defined as a problem then who has insight, morals and power to solve it. This Board ⁉️

[Sgt. Pepper]

1 hour ago, E-minor7 said:

 Well, you may have a point.

But based on what should regulations be drawn. And if this is defined as a problem then who has insight, morals and power to solve it. This Board ⁉️

First we as forum members solve nothing here. All we do is ohhh an ahhh at guitars, and b-itch and moan. Is congress going to write a bill for Sleepy Joe to sign into law, to get all the vintage guitars back from Japan. Nope.

If you had the money back then - you should have bought them, cause apparently the Japanese did. Booo Hooo.

Edited January 7, 2023 by Sgt. Pepper

[BluesKing777]

Gibson Montana made lots of acoustic just for Japan special orders in the early 2000s. I have 2 - my 2002 J50 and my 2005 Dove cherry burst. I don’ t believe Gibson were selling these guitars anywhere else at the time. I got mine from a pawn shop, and had them repaired, but the original owner travelled to Japan for business a lot and bought any Gibsons that caught his eye, I was told.

 

BluesKing777.

 

Edited January 7, 2023 by BluesKing777

[olie]

3 hours ago, Sgt. Pepper said:

First we as forum members solve nothing here. All we do is ohhh an ahhh at guitars, and b-itch and moan. Is congress going to write a bill for Sleepy Joe to sign into law, to get all the vintage guitars back from Japan. Nope.

If you had the money back then - you should have bought them, cause apparently the Japanese did. Booo Hooo.

Thanks for your usual deep insight,  and your avoidance of political opinions which , I was led to believe, was anathema here.

It never ends.

[Sgt. Pepper]

1 hour ago, olie said:

Thanks for your usual deep insight,  and your avoidance of political opinions which , I was led to believe, was anathema here.

It never ends.

So years ago the Japanese had the cash to buy up all the nice guitars you guys want. Now they are considered vintage and cost a lot to buy. Moaning about it isn’t gonna change it, but you can use me as a scapegoat if you need to. 

[DanvillRob]

On 1/6/2023 at 4:27 PM, Sgt. Pepper said:

Japan can keep them for all I care. Vintage is for Joe Bonamassa. 

Speaking of the 'uber-collectors' such as Bonamassa and Gill.....I wonder where Les Paul's collection ended up?

I kind of recall him showing his Ledbelly Stella 12-String....can't IMAGINE what that's worth!

[Sgt. Pepper]

18 minutes ago, DanvillRob said:

Speaking of the 'uber-collectors' such as Bonamassa and Gill.....I wonder where Les Paul's collection ended up?

I kind of recall him showing his Ledbelly Stella 12-String....can't IMAGINE what that's worth!

Not sure. I remember seeing that Pawn Shop Show with those Vegas idiots, and Les Paul/Mary Ford's nephew or son (I can't remember which), who was probably a degenerate gambler, came in, and wanted to sell a white Les Paul (it was one shaped like an SG, when they were called Les Pauls for a hot minuite, that Les was not a fan of). It had all kinds of work done to it, and paperwork with it. The main guy though Les was the one who did the work on it, and his pants were getting tight with anticipation to get it. The guy wanted I think 50k, but the guy only wanted to give him 35k. I think it was - No Sale and he walked out. If I ever came across a vintage anything that someone wanted to pay me big bucks for I would sell it in a heartbeat to the highest bidder, and go buy stuff I really wanted. I care less than nothing about spending huge amounts of cash for vintage. Hell new and used stuff I like is expensive enough, never mind vintage.

I think this in on topic right? I don't want Grab A Root And Grunt to yell at me again.

Edited January 8, 2023 by Sgt. Pepper

[DanvillRob]

9 minutes ago, Sgt. Pepper said:

Not sure. I remember seeing that Pawn Shop Show with those Vegas idiots, and Les Paul/Mary Ford's nephew or son (I can't remember which), who was probably a degenerate gambler, came in, and wanted to sell a white Les Paul (it was one shaped like an SG, when they were called Les Pauls for a hot minuite, that Les was not a fan of). It had all kinds of work done to it, and paperwork with it. The main guy though Les was the one who did the work on it, and his pants were getting tight with anticipation to get it. The guy wanted I think 50k, but the guy only wanted to give him 35k. I think it was - No Sale and he walked out. If I ever came across a vintage anything that someone wanted to pay me big bucks for I would sell it in a heartbeat to the highest bidder, and go buy stuff I really wanted. I care less than nothing about spending huge amounts of cash for vintage. Hell new and used stuff I like is expensive enough, never mind vintage.

I think this in on topic right? I don't want Grab A Root And Grunt to yell at me again.

I vaguely recall seeing a show where a bunch of Les' stuff was up for auction or sale somewhere...but I could be wrong.....but I didn't see his collection..... like Django's Selmer.

[dhanners623]

On 1/7/2023 at 2:30 AM, zombywoof said:

I used to see that at the Dallas Guitar Show but earlier than you did.

I witnessed that myself at the Dallas Guitar Show in the ‘80s, and I also heard many a local dealer complain about it at the time.

[RvrDxn]

On 1/7/2023 at 4:57 PM, olie said:

Thanks for your usual deep insight,  and your avoidance of political opinions which , I was led to believe, was anathema here.

It never ends.

Where’s the political opinion?

[olie]

The part where he referred to "Sleepy Joe". Seems as if there's a bias there.

[Sgt. Pepper]

4 hours ago, RvrDxn said:

Where’s the political opinion?

There isn’t one, he has no idea what an opinion is. If I would have posted Joe Biden is a tool, that’s an opinion. What I posted  previously was not.

Edited January 12, 2023 by Sgt. Pepper

[RvrDxn]

6 hours ago, olie said:

The part where he referred to "Sleepy Joe". Seems as if there's a bias there.

Ah, I hear you. That sure does seem biased. “Dirty kid sniffer” seems more appropriate.

[ksdaddy]

There was an estate auction in 2012 of Les’s stuff. The catalog was a couple hundred pages. You would not believe how much stuff that man had. And so many higher end guitars hacked to the point of no return because he wanted to tinker. I bought a rack mounted headphone amp several years after the auction. It’s on a shelf in my office. 

[Sgt. Pepper]

41 minutes ago, ksdaddy said:

There was an estate auction in 2012 of Les’s stuff. The catalog was a couple hundred pages. You would not believe how much stuff that man had. And so many higher end guitars hacked to the point of no return because he wanted to tinker. I bought a rack mounted headphone amp several years after the auction. It’s on a shelf in my office. 

I’m sure when Les was in good with Gibson he probably got as many guitars as he wanted for free.  No one  back then could have predicted the lunacy that would eventually become the vintage market.

Edited January 12, 2023 by Sgt. Pepper