shredding? why are most people down on playing fast...

[S t e v e]

but not on playing slow?, jaquin (sorry if spelt wrong) picked up on it in another thread...do the majority of people who prefer notes to be played slowly and not fast "shred" only do so because they can't play fast themselves? ie don't have the technique...

 

debate here...

[Versatile]

Cheese is for shredding

If you will <_<

V

 

 

Deep Philosophy From the Living Room

[Tim Plains]

Probably because some view it as very mechanical with "no soul" in the person's playing. I don't bash it. Just like everything else - I find some sounds good and some doesn't.

[cabba2203]

I'm not "down" on shredding. I still dig it, but I'm burned out on generic shredding as it's starting to all sound the same to me.

I still get very impressed and entertained by shredding that actually is creative, like what Paul Gilbert does and Vai. Also Buckethead.

[ChanMan]

For me, I just don't care for "all shred all the time" playing.

 

I'll use Herman Li as an example. While he does a HUGE amount of uber-rapid shred style, he does break it down and do some more soulful sounding slow leads. It's the fact that he plays SO fast most of the time that really accentuates his slow stuff.... if it was all video game themesong licks all the time, it would suck.

 

Or suck more, depending on your perspective, I think.

 

 

[Versatile]

Shredding can be wonderfully exciting for a finite period of time

It does show terrific technique and hard work

My favourite shredders

 

Nigella Lawson, Rachel, Fanny Craddock, Delia Smith, Jamie Oliver(lol)

 

V

 

Gourmet, Bon Viveur, Foody par Excellence

[charlie brown]

Technique wise, it can be very impressive. Even so, musically, for a few seconds.

More than that, though, it just gets boring...IMHO. It's like the endless scale

based arpeggios, that some Jazz sax and trumpet players do, so "show their chops,"

endlessly. ;>b

 

CB

[BigKahune]

... Just like everything else - I find some sounds good and some doesn't. ...

 

+1

[S t e v e]

so i take it that you all can't shred then?

[NeoConMan]

Never even aspired to it.

 

I like it in small doses, too much is like watching gymnastics.

Very impressive to behold, and requires skill and talent I don't have, but I get bored in a hurry.

 

Van Halen was cool when he came out.

Later realized Ace Frehley was doing the same thing in "Shock Me" from Alive II.

 

By the mid-eighties, everybody was faster and faster.

Somewhere along the way, it ceased being musical for me.

 

 

In my view, held for 30 years now, it's like listening to some dude masturbate.

I'm sure there are people out there who would enjoy that, but for me?

 

No thanks.

 

Blues moves me, without a million notes a minute.

[Rocky4]

so i take it that you all can't shred then?

 

 

No, I can't shred, and I don't want to

Why do you think we don't like shredding because we can't?

 

 

 

I can't fingerpick, but I like bluegrass

I can't play the sax, but I like Coltrane

I can't play the solo to Freewill, but I love it

[Notes_Norton]

I can play very fast on the saxophone, much faster than any guitarist I've ever heard.

 

I have nothing against fast playing, but I dislike most of it because it seems to me like it is just running up and down scales and not moving me melodically. An exercise in how fast I can play instead of how expressively can I play. In other words, boring to listen to.

 

I feel the same way about bebop saxophone players. Of course with a couple of exceptions. Charlie Parker played it melodically and so does Richie Cole.

 

To me a good melody involves phrasing, note choice, some negative space, development of melodic motifs, tension and release, and more often than not, something that one could hum along with.

 

To many shredders are just into the technical part of music instead of the musical part of music. But like I said, with some exceptions.

 

Notes ♫

[milod]

Another problem I have with the premise is a definition of "playing fast."

 

If you fingerpick - as I mostly do - why are your 32 notes per bar considered slower than the flatpicker who plays 24 notes per bar? That's an oddity that's kinda gotten to me.

 

I've listened also to flamenco and classical guitarists who are exceptionally fast, but nobody sez, "gee, they're fast," but rather are listening to the effect of the piece. Then again, I always liked Carlos Montoya better than the "new" flamenco players I've heard because although there was incredible speed, the notes seemed to "fit" more than those faster younger guys.

 

Also it seems to me that the "speed" of the shredders - which I really don't care much for personally although I respect the skill involved - then ends up lacking a buncha the dynamic of timing that's been important to music for centuries.

 

So first, what's "speed" and secondly, how does the dynamic of a specific solo convey something other than just skill?

 

m

[surfpup]

so i take it that you all can't shred then?

 

The logic in this argument is a little lacking. I don't have boobs, but I like them.

 

It actually took me a while to learn to slow down. I still dive in too fast sometimes (just ask my wife). Good solos blend slow and fast passages. The fast bits can be a little short on melody I find. I'm still learning to save the speed (legato runs and tremolo picking in my case- no sweeping for me) for right time.

[Kimbabig]

Well all I can say is that I have respect for players who can play at high speeds without turning up the gain all the way.

[damian]

Edited for clarity;

 

 

[FirstMeasure]

Because they can't.

 

"Just" Shredding can get old and tiresome, but moments of Shred or even tunes written around Shredding can be really cool. I have noticed that people who get down on something, usually can't do that something.

 

I love it when someone assumes I can't play fast because I usually don't, then I start sweep picking, tapping, arpeggiating, tremolo picking, and dive bombing like an 80's metal video. It's all part of the instrument. I believe if the instrument does it, I should be able to make the instrument to it.

[NeoConMan]

Good attitude to have.

 

[Kimbabig]

I can do about anything, except sweep picking and pinch harmonics, I also cant do a pick slide and go back into the song because I have to change the way I hold my pick. Just some honest confession of what I can't do while we're on the subject of can't.

[FirstMeasure]

Thanks NEO

 

Kimbabig, it's funny you mentioned Pick Slides. That's one thing I've always had trouble with, I better start working on that or I'll make a liar out of myself.

[milod]

"I believe if the instrument does it, I should be able to make the instrument to it."

 

That includes playing Bach?

 

Yeah, I don't wanna sound at all sarcastic, but it's something that's hit me ever since I started playing rock 'stedda fingerpickin and flatpickin "folk" and grass. Y'don't play the current rock lead style and you're not a "real" guitar player. Sheesh.

 

We're talking not playing all the guitar can do, but a specific sort of thing a guitar can do. Does one say Joe Pass could "shred," or simply that he was an incredible guitarist whose fastest passages still sounded so smooth that the speed was deceptive?

 

Again, nothing at all against some current styles. But the number of guitarists who can play current rock to meet 14-22 y-o audience expectations in a cave and do a Bach recital the following day are few and far between.

 

Most of us find a style we prefer and work toward proficiency in that style. That's all I'm saying. The few who manage outside that particular design are very rare. And often they're not initially appreciated, as for example Chet Atkins who was considered by many "country fans" to be too "Jazz." Oddly he managed to hit the scene when country still was combining a lotta things and folks in Nashville recognized an incredible talent.

 

But most of us? We ain't close.

 

m

[FirstMeasure]

Well, yes, that does include Bach, Nylon Sting Classical, country, flamanco, Funk, Metal, you name it it all just note manipulation. And a Shredder should be able to Jazz it up or play some bluegrass.

[NeoConMan]

So, if I can pull of "Eruption" flawlessly, and even speed it up a little, I'm not a Guitar God?

 

[MojoRedFoot]

Cuz it's lame. Everything is lame. It cool to say stuff is lame.

 

 

I get why people don't like it. I'm not all for it 100% of the time. Which is why I'm such a big fan of Paul Gilbert. He does it in a way that is more fun and doesn't do it all the time. That and he doesn't have the giant ego that is normally associated with shredders (Malmsteen comes to mind). That might be part of what turns people off. Just a thoery.

[NeoConMan]

You got something there.

Some TV show years ago, Malmsteen is shredding while I'm snoozing.

 

After the song they were interviewing him, I was kinda wishing he would start playing again...