Chinese fakes..

[Gibson Artist]

I see videos on youtube all the time of guys proudly displaying their counterfeit Chinese fake Gibsons. Dont know why but i am soooooooooo tempted to tell these people off. Granted, it would be one thing to copy the great design of a les paul and put your own label on it but when people pretend that the instrument is a Legitimate Gibson product this Ticks me off!!

 

Im not sure if China uses child labor to make them but from the videos ive seen the fakes are getting better and doesnt Epiphone have factories there? This load of crap they flood the market with makes buying a used les paul alot more risky and really leaves a bad taste in my mouth.

 

Am i wrong for feeling that people who buy fakes are traitors? Because i really feel they do a great disservice and may be driving up the cost for a legit paul someday. Is there anything Gibson can do to make their instrumenets more secure like the govt does on a dollar bill?

 

I know it may sound a bit extreme but it would be nice to be able to easier spot a fake then find your income tax check was wasted by an unscrupulous dealer.

[Gibson Artist]

Most buyers can't imagine that there are fake Epis out.....

 

and places like the Bay is full of them.

 

If you can't spot them you never should buy at such places.

 

No risk - no fake......buy at legit places!

 

 

As long as the hunting for the best deal is ruling - they sell 'em.

 

One easy rule is.....If it is 'to good to be true'......don't buy it.

 

 

Yes, i almost bought a Gibson LP Standard on ebay but ive been reading some horror stories about Paypal not re embursing people because they only care if you got your delivery and not if it was a genuine product. So far i didnt buy it. Ive left no stone un turned in my search for my first gibson but i'll probably buy mine from guitar center or musicians friend or sweetwater, the bigger places i assume can spot the fakes pretty well.

 

Id like to get new but a new standard is a little out of my range, heck even a used is but if im buying from a legit, authorized dealer like mf or gc than i should be able to buy with confidence right?

[Andy R]

Im not sure if China uses child labor to make them but from the videos ive seen the fakes are getting better and doesnt Epiphone have factories there? This load of crap they flood the market with makes buying a used les paul alot more risky and really leaves a bad taste in my mouth.

 

Uh yes they do have an Epiphone factory there and have all the tooling and materials they need to make an Epiphone ( insert hushed conspiratorial tone here) and a Gibson guitar if they so desired.... Maybe the fakes are getting better because they aren't as "Fake" as you think they might be.

 

Now if I were in the "knock off market" I would want to make a "Fake" as realistic looking as possible with the least amount of labor and materials. Ever notice that almost all of these Chinese fakes are going at about the same price?? Why would I want to take the extra time and expense and labor to build guitars with multi-ply binding and extra inlays etc... when I could make an SG or a Junior or a Studio with much less time, effort and materials and greatly reduce the "Tells" that it's a fake???

 

Now what if I worked at a factory where all I had to do was change a couple of things and have a Gibson in a few minutes??? Kinda makes you think doesn't it...

 

Some people here also shun the Epiphone as well and think it Cheapens the Gibson brand as well because it is made in China and supports jobs in China as well. At the same time there is no denying that the Epiphone quality is pretty darn good and even better in a few respects. Why couldn't they make the Epiphone in America? They used to make the lower end Kalamazoo here...

 

 

Andy

[Andy R]

So will I be forever shunned here when I build my Replicas for my own personal use????

[rocketman]

I do feel for the person who buys online paying "fair market value" for a Gibson and then finds out it's fake. But the ones who pay $300 for a "real" Gibson deserve what they get. In this day and age, especially in this economy, people really need to be careful. I avoid the whole issue by not buying big ticket items online. But that's just me.

[Gibson Artist]

I do feel for the person who buys online paying "fair market value" for a Gibson and then finds out it's fake. But the ones who pay $300 for a "real" Gibson deserve what they get. In this day and age, especially in this economy, people really need to be careful. I avoid the whole issue by not buying big ticket items online. But that's just me.

 

I agree, anyone who believes you can get a les paul custom for 500 should spot the red flag a mile away. My point is the ad i saw was for a les paul classic selling for 1500 dollars and while it looked legit, the seller had a feedback of only 70 and no online store, really seemed like far too big of a gamble.

 

I really want a specific colour and its sold out on the studios so ive been looking at used Standards as they are only slightly higher in price. Nearly picked up a classic on Craigslist but someone beat me to it, point is the fake i saw on youtube didnt have the 3 screwed truss rod cover so i get the impression i could get taken quite easily as other than the angle of the neck and checking the pickup cavity (which most sellers arent very keen to allow lol) i wouldnt know how to spot a fake.

 

The Heritage Cherry Studio or Standard is my dream, they are just beautiful instruments and i almost feel like if i get another colour id be settling and i dont want to settle.

 

Wonder how long till the 2011 models come out?

[WahKeen]

Is there a problem with some wannabees impersonating Chinese people? Oh! Guitars.... My fault... :unsure:

[BigKahune]

I see videos on youtube all the time of guys proudly displaying their counterfeit Chinese fake Gibsons. ...when people pretend that the instrument is a Legitimate Gibson product this Ticks me off!! ... Am i wrong for feeling that people who buy fakes are traitors? ...

 

People who knowingly buy fake Gibsons to avoid paying for real Gibson guitars are criminals - just as bad as those manufacturing the fakes.

[Artie Owl]

Honestly if they've got a plywood guitar and they don't know the difference between that and a real SG or LP, why does it matter? They obviously don't care and can't hear the difference and those people will never replace people who know the difference and look for a quality instrument.

[Andy R]

People who knowingly buy fake Gibsons to avoid paying for real Gibson guitars are criminals - just as bad as those manufacturing the fakes.

 

 

What Gibson wants for a guitar anymore is criminal as well. You damn near have to turn into a criminal to buy one... or sell your car and mortgage the house.... Just Sayin' they are ridiculously salty. I went to Sam Ashe and checked out a brand new Black Beauty Custom.... There was no grain filler used on the mahogany so you you could see and feel the grain pattern in the paint and all of the binding had ledges. Why in the hell can't they get the binding flush with the neck anymore that drives me insane! And I wish they would actually crown the frets instead of just tapering the leveling a little. A fret should have a single point of contact not 2.... MAaybe if they let some of the luthiers on MLP make the Gibson guitars with Logos they would end up with an influx of superior made guitars as the guitars being built over there are definately getting some attention to detail and quality.

 

 

Sorry lost control there for a minute. Please proceed.

[Shnate McDuanus]

Is there a problem with some wannabees impersonating Chinese people?

 

Hey man, there's nothing wrong with that at all. Peter Sellers did it:

 

[Rizal]

Just want to share my opinion. I am not from China by the way

 

For some people in some part of the world, Gibson guitars are luxury item. A new LP, here, cost from MYR14,000 to MYR20,000 (exchange rate 1USD = 3.1 MYR). With the earning that most people have here, most likely, most of us can't afford one. Probably we can, if we save for 10-20 years.

 

A friend of mine, have a fake LP Custom. He knows its a fake, he didn't pretend is a genuine Gibson. It may not be genuine, but, he likes the guitar. He plays well too. I don't think he is less of a guitar player because he play fake guitars.

 

Pictures were taken with the fake Guitar, but I am sure, with most, the intended reason was not 'Hey look at me with my Genuine Gibson'. It's probably, "Hey, look at me, I am a guitar player'.

 

So, most of us here can't afford to have one, so buying fake is probably the closest we could get to owned a Gibson. I am sure, if we can afford the real thing, we won't buy the fake one. And fakes are easily available. They looks real. To casual person, it's real. I have difficulty figuring out myself. If I only have money to buy an unknown brand guitar, or a fake Gibson. I know which one would I choose.

 

However, I have been blessed with earnings a bit more than the average folks here.

I do not condone that buying behavior, even if they fakes are good, which is why, I will be buying a real one. A used one of course. But it will be a long saving money journey. In the meantime, I will play my genuine non-Gibson guitar.

[stein]

i gots mixed feelings on this matter, but i am starting to get some strong ones.

 

first point. i agree that the gibson name, and the epiphone name, belongs to gibson. using the name to make a buck is to me a theft, and i don't have a good opinion of theifs, and i have zero respect for a company that produces such forgeries.

 

i have learned that in other counties like the UK there is taboo about even owning a fake, and to that, i applaud. in the US, we care deeply about someone trying to defraud another with a fake, but if someone owns one we really could care less. we might be more apt to take pity if we were arrogent.

 

now in particular, epiphones, i have seen examples of poeple going to lenths to determine if it is genuine or not, and some wonder why. i did a little looking up when asking myself what the issue with these were, and i found that there were no less than 9 factories contracted to make epiphones at different times. in some cases, more than one factory making the same model at the same time. in at least one case, a factory making them that no longer had permission. the amount of knowledge to be able to say for sure if a guitar was fake is insurmountable to me, and i think is not worth the effort when i consider that it may even be an identicle guitar. if one chooses to do this with the effort of busting a factory distributing fakes, it should be done. but other than that, it may be more important to examine the motivation behind authenticating or proving one is a fake than examining the actual guitar.

 

if we are concerned with authenticating an epiphone for value, there is no reason-a "fake" overseas made epiphone is worth no more or no less. if there is a thought that an epiphone is worth more, then we should examine the reverence and value of the epiphone branded guitars. to say they deserve to be treated as a superior brand is misplaced, as gibson contracts factories to make them, and deserve no more respect than another guitar brand from the same factory. what should be respected is gibson's attempt to make a cool guitar at a cheap price, while not pretending to be a gibson. it is strictly a distributership issue.

 

now i want to stress something that is the real problem here: unless you buy from a dealer, that guitar is NOT new. a used guitar is worth a fraction of a new guitar, and there is a price index for it. if the guitar has never even left the case, it is a used guitar and belongs in that price index, and there is a reason for it. when you go to a dealer, a store, you get the privelrdge of playing, examining, and choosing a guitar. the dealer buys it and has to keep the lights on, pay the employees, and they deserve to be paid for that, because they provide a service. they also have bills and want to take thier women to dinner just like any of us. there is nothing wrong with saving a buck and getting value from buying used, but to pay a new price for a guitar that is not from a dealer only defrauds yourself.

 

to me a lot of that could be solved by caring where your money goes, and by that i mean who as much as what. if you think a someone deserves the money you earned, then you know it is money well spent.

 

last, i have one more point, that i got from reading a post above. if there is a kid, he has a fake, and even if it is a bad one, he is proud because he is pretending to be like someone who actually has a gibson. if that is misplaced, then what is misplaced is that by owning a real one we are somehow better. if owning one makes us somehow cool, and looked up to, then we should consider ourselves lucky and blessed. we should already consider that because they are such nice guitars and we get to have them. if we do anything, we should conduct ourselves with class, give them a pat on the back and give them a real reason why they should look up to us.

[Thundergod]

Actually I have done exactly that and not just Gibson's but Ibanez guitars also.

 

Did you see the pictures I posted of fake ibanez guitars? It was a while ago and the thread got deleted (I posted the "gibson dealer"'s site in there, and it seems it's against forum rules as it can encourage people to go there and just buy fakes ). I'll post them again tomorrow... nice pics of horrendously built ibanez guitars (or was it "Ibañes" )

 

These guys don't care they can sit in their imaginary world and pretend the glued chipped plywood used to make their guitar is on the level of a decent guitar

 

That's so true and such a shame... most of them will tell you their fakes are as good as the real thing and some of them will say their fakes are better than the real thing. Those are the worst.

 

You get what you pay for

 

Dis

[Searcy]

I think to some degree we can thank Slash for making it cool to play fake Gibsons. Personally I have zero tolerance for someone who will put the name of a reputable guitar company on a guitar they built regardless of the quality of the build. The only reason to do so is to fool people and capitalize on the actual company's name and reputation. If the builder wasn't trying to do deceive people they would put their own name on the guitar and be proud of their work.

[Witmer]

If the builder wasn't trying to do deceive people they would put their own name on the guitar and be proud of their work.

 

 

This.

[krock]

I remember a while back there was a thread about fake gibby's so I actually contacted the factory and supplier in china about them. untill i told them i knew they were fakes they just kept trying to pass them off as gibson's. Their sales person even admitted she knew nothing about guitars. Wow :L

[tartanbeastie]

I've also reported a number of guitars on ebay as cheap fakes and saw the ad removed. I have also notified Gibson and Fender about the copies and sent links in my emails so they can see for themselves. Fender sent an email of thanks etc.. nothing from Gibson.

Some of the copies on ebay and other sites, while yes trying to look like famous brands or guitars, do actually look like reasonable guitars for the price. Note, I didnt say good!! I would be far happier if these manufacturers stuck their own name and logo on the headstock and branded as a company in their own right. if the product is good it would sell on its own merit. Surely it would be better for the company to establish itself as a decent and honest company than be known purely as a cheap knock of merchant.

Has anyone ever bought a cheap chinese copy? what was it like to play? I know compared to the brand names they wont be half as good but I was tempted a while back with a spalted maple topped tele from one of these companies but my ethics wouldn't allow me to do it.

[krock]

I've also reported a number of guitars on ebay as cheap fakes and saw the ad removed. I have also notified Gibson and Fender about the copies and sent links in my emails so they can see for themselves. Fender sent an email of thanks etc.. nothing from Gibson.

Some of the copies on ebay and other sites, while yes trying to look like famous brands or guitars, do actually look like reasonable guitars for the price. Note, I didnt say good!! I would be far happier if these manufacturers stuck their own name and logo on the headstock and branded as a company in their own right. if the product is good it would sell on its own merit. Surely it would be better for the company to establish itself as a decent and honest company than be known purely as a cheap knock of merchant.

Has anyone ever bought a cheap chinese copy? what was it like to play? I know compared to the brand names they wont be half as good but I was tempted a while back with a spalted maple topped tele from one of these companies but my ethics wouldn't allow me to do it.

 

ive never bought or played one but i watched a comparison vid on youtube. the guitar has really **** hardware, but the owner swapped it out and ended up spending about $1000 on the guitar (including the clost of the original guitar). Btw, this was a gibby les paul supreme compy. H ethen compared it with a real one, and it sounded pretty good. The biggest difference in tone I think came from the fact it didnt use the correct wood.

[jnastynebr]

Like it or not, its American demand for cheap goods that created the climate for these foreign companies that produce fake products to flurish. We wont hesitate to walk into Walmart at 1:30 AM to buy the least expensive Asian made junk our devalued dollars can buy, but go on the warpath at the thought of our precious guitars being copied.

Get use to it. As long as we ship our jobs overseas, stock our shelves with sweatshop goods (all the while wondering why the economy is in the crapper and no one has jobs), and throw our $ to the lowest bidder with no regaurd for quality or craftsmanship, the assortment of fakes will only continue to expand.

[milod]

I think the one thing that bothers me is putting a "brand name" on a guitar that is not made by, or under license of the company that owns the brand.

 

I'm a lot less concerned with something such as the mid 1970s Ibanez "patent infringement" guitars that were copies of Gibsons, for example, but very clearly had "Ibanez" on the headstock and on various other sorts of identifications.

 

The LP or Tele types, for example, with "Milod" on the headstock, should be far more respected IMHO than one illegally using a brand name even if made in the same factory.

 

You can argue design patents; you can't argue illegal use of a brand name and/or other sort of trademark.

 

There are valid national economic arguments against buying an Epi or Squier, but I'd certainly prefer buying one of those than from some of those counterfeit outfits that may or may not even send something half rational represented as a guitar. In fact, Epi instruments are exceptional, IMHO, for what they are and what they cost.

 

So... <grin> hang those who illegally put a trademark on a guitar of any quality; make your own decision on what you can afford if it's a legitimate product.

 

The larger economic issues ain't going away, but not all of us can afford to insist on U.S. made at this point in time in the world.

[Gibson Artist]

I think the one thing that bothers me is putting a "brand name" on a guitar that is not made by, or under license of the company that owns the brand.

 

I'm a lot less concerned with something such as the mid 1970s Ibanez "patent infringement" guitars that were copies of Gibsons, for example, but very clearly had "Ibanez" on the headstock and on various other sorts of identifications.

 

 

 

Exactly milod, when ibanez or schector make their own version of a lp or strat they put their name on the headstock, but to put Gibson on the headstock when you are not a legitimate authorized Gibson maker you are not just creating a counterfeit, you are committing Fraud!

 

Im pretty close to buying a real Gibby pretty soon and starting to get GAS for a les paul standard.

[Andy R]

This.

 

 

Hmmm well you guys aren't going to care much for me much longer as I plan on doing a couple of "Exact Replicas" of a certain couple of guitars with all the trimmings. Not for sale and completely just about something I personally want to do and how I want to do it. I know what my intent is so I could give a shite what others think about what I build or do for my own enjoyment and in my own home. If these are to ever leave my hands for any reason they will be modified before they do. I make plenty of money and don't need to scam anybody. I also won't be having people tell me I'm a sh*t heel because I have a desire to see if I can do something as good or better than the company that makes them... This is a passing phase and as I progress the next step will be something completely my own in all ways. I understand where you are all coming from and agree but not everyone has the same intent.

 

Maybe I'm mistaking your meaning to some degree as I definitely see an issue with people and especially foreign ( or any other for that matter) factories mass producing fakes for profit but for a personal one or two off thing to me it's also a bit of an insult to reproduce something as accurately as possible and then stick your name on it. Wasn't my idea, wasn't my design and if I'm playing it and no one knows the diff then it is just free advertising. I see plenty of Shelby cobras out there that are detailed to the nines and I'm pretty sure they aint the real deal... but somebody enjoyed building it and they know they can never take it to Barret-Jackson and sell it for a million dollars. They probably couldn't afford a million to buy an original one either so they built the next best thing and as long as they enjoy it more power to them.

 

Maybe Gibson should consider sponsoring a building club where luthiers can build a replica and send it in for a Gibson "Seal of Approval" if it meets all required specs and QC maybe with some kind of registration cost.... Might be interesting even if it were just a contest. Yeah I know all the blah blah why not... but just thinking for fun.

 

That's why I was a bit surprised that there wasn't much response to how far can you modify a Gibson before you can't hang the logo on it thread.

 

Sorry if I pooped anybody off. Had a bad day and needed a little release.

 

 

I will still like all you guys even If I am shunned and stoned for taking they guitars name in vain.....

 

 

Later dudes,

 

Andy

[stein]

Andy:

 

sinse we got busted for space, this is the responce (so we don't have to read twice as much, and i can write twice as long). thats a joke.

 

it sounds like you been around the music long enough to know, there are more fakes played by musicians than is readily known. ESPECIALLY fender. nearly every fender seen on tv or a stage in a certain time in about the 80's was either a luthier made copy or a japanese made. this was mostly due to a lack of quality, not an effort to defraud. luthiers were hired to make a strat because fender did not know how to build them right, and this is not always a cheaper option. when the new owners bought fender cbs they shut down the whole factory, and put their resources into LEARNING how to build a fender..again. poeple in the fender camp consider all reissues and vintage style fenders to be copies, because of the reverence to the origionals, and are held to the standard of how close they are and how good they are.

 

now take a simple les paul. that guitar was discontinued, and reissued some 7 years later. everyone knows these reissues were nowhere near the quality or the same. and it took a long time before they got anything close. part of the issue of quality had to do with the new ownership, and these guitars were made by different poeple at a different factory. now, are these les pauls?

 

dig this: there are certain icons of society. we admire and revere them for thier quality and place in history. the guy who builds a shelby cobra. it is the love of the icon that makes it a hobby, and the finished product is a work of art. if it were not for this kind of additude, this kind of love for a perticular thing that particular men created, there would be no understanding of how to nake them again in the first place. this is not stealing an idea, this is a tribute. and this is not an act of fraud, this is a hobby.

 

if it weren't for guys like you, and others who cared about the tradition, i wonder what kind of guitar gibson would be making today.

 

now, i am wondering, if the origional guys at gibson and epiphone could ever have imagined what became of them. that thier namesakes and products were made and copied, with varying degees of quality all over the world. that we were even having discussions and arguments on thier authenticity?

[Gibson Artist]

Hmmm well you guys aren't going to care much for me much longer as I plan on doing a couple of "Exact Replicas" of a certain couple of guitars with all the trimmings. Not for sale and completely just about something I personally want to do and how I want to do it. I know what my intent is so I could give a shite what others think about what I build or do for my own enjoyment and in my own home. If these are to ever leave my hands for any reason they will be modified before they do. I make plenty of money and don't need to scam anybody. I also won't be having people tell me I'm a sh*t heel because I have a desire to see if I can do something as good or better than the company that makes them... This is a passing phase and as I progress the next step will be something completely my own in all ways. I understand where you are all coming from and agree but not everyone has the same intent.

 

Maybe I'm mistaking your meaning to some degree as I definitely see an issue with people and especially foreign ( or any other for that matter) factories mass producing fakes for profit but for a personal one or two off thing to me it's also a bit of an insult to reproduce something as accurately as possible and then stick your name on it. Wasn't my idea, wasn't my design and if I'm playing it and no one knows the diff then it is just free advertising. I see plenty of Shelby cobras out there that are detailed to the nines and I'm pretty sure they aint the real deal... but somebody enjoyed building it and they know they can never take it to Barret-Jackson and sell it for a million dollars. They probably couldn't afford a million to buy an original one either so they built the next best thing and as long as they enjoy it more power to them.

 

Maybe Gibson should consider sponsoring a building club where luthiers can build a replica and send it in for a Gibson "Seal of Approval" if it meets all required specs and QC maybe with some kind of registration cost.... Might be interesting even if it were just a contest. Yeah I know all the blah blah why not... but just thinking for fun.

 

That's why I was a bit surprised that there wasn't much response to how far can you modify a Gibson before you can't hang the logo on it thread.

 

Sorry if I pooped anybody off. Had a bad day and needed a little release.

 

 

I will still like all you guys even If I am shunned and stoned for taking they guitars name in vain.....

 

 

Later dudes,

 

Andy

 

Andy, this is just my personal opinion but i see nothing wrong with making your own Guitar, i just dont like people who counterfeit and sell it as a real Gibson when it's clearly not. Heck, ive seen guys in prison make handmade guitars and thought how cool is that? My only complaint was people in youtube who proudly show off a guitar they knowingly bought on ebay knowing its a chinese fake but bought it anyways. These people are actually helping the counterfeiters sell more junk and rip off some unsuspecting customers.

 

The les paul i saw on a video looked real to me, if i had seen it on craigslist i wouldve bought it and though id initially be happy id get a BIG wakeup call should i ever go to sell it.

 

Make all the guitars to your hearts content brother.