Two laminated J-45 Bridges - 70 years apart

[Lars68]

I'd like to add some perspective to the discussion of the now laminated J-45 TV bridges. This is not something new for Gibson. They did it 70 years ago on the Banner era 45s.

 

See the side photo of the bridge on this 1942 guitar:

http://www.bannergibsons.com/images/7721H-2J-45MarcWignall/a3e0_3.JPG

 

This was Gibson's answer to shortages during the WWII years. They are doing exactly the same thing again, trying to do the best they can with limited resources. I am 100% convinced that Gibson is not doing this today in order to save money or cut any corners. They are forced to do so for reasons beyond their control.

 

What is also interesting is that the old 45 in the picture actually has a J-35 style bridge, and that it is laminated to add height to the bridge. So most likely Gibson was faced with two problems. They had no more wood to make new bridges and the guitar in question also had a neck angle problem. Instead of scrapping the guitar, they found a left over J-35 bridge and added a piece of wood to it in order to make it taller. I have a 45 from the same batch as the guitar above, and mine also has a J-35 style bridge, although not laminated/stacked. So it is pretty clear that Gibson had problems sourcing wood for bridges.

 

The story is now repeating itself, and Gibson is doing the best they can to work around it. So the new laminated bridges are indeed "True Vintage".

 

It should also be noted that these war time Banner era guitars, now 70 years later, are held in very high regard, despite the issues brought about by the war shortages. Other examples of issues are:

Four piece tops, non book matched tops, plastic tuner buttons, lack of truss rods, mahogany tops, laminated maple backand sides, gumwood for bridges and fingerboards, poplar neck block, laminated necks, necks from other models, skunk stripes, etc

In fact, these "issues" combined with Gibson's resourcefulness is today considered a big part of the Banner charm, mystique and actractivness. As long as the guitars made today have the sound and playability, nothing says that these guitars with laminated bridges and fingerboards will be of lesser value down the line...

 

Also, I actually have both a -42 and an -09 J-45 and to say that the modern guitar is "True Vintage" is far from the truth. I have compared the two carefully, and the list of differences is too long to post here. HOWEVER, for a modern guitar the -09 is no slouch, though. "True Vintage" comes from the marketing department and has very little to do with the actual guitar.

 

/Lars

[Hairy Dave]

Interesting post Lars!

[Del Nilppeznaf]

HURRAAAY =D>

 

My TV is TRULY vintage...haha

 

Thanks Lars68

[jchabalk]

yet and another indicator that the country is in a similar state it was in during WWII.

 

we're bringing home the troops and everything.

[Lars68]

Yes same problem to source wood as 70 years ago, but for very different reasons...

 

Lars

[blindboygrunt]

gibson is not in the same situation as it was back then , one of the worlds top guitar manufacturers cant get its hands on a piece of rosewood big enough for a bridge ?

 

come off the grass

[Lars68]

In the old days the fingerboard and bridges were made of Brazilian rosewood, which has not been comercially available in large quantities since before the ban in 1969. I believe Gibson feels that Madagascar rosewoood is the best substitute. The problem to source wood is indeed real and has been ongoing for quite some time. Unfortunately, very little indicates that the situation will get any better in the near future.

 

Lars

[57classic]

Very interesting Lars. Thanks for the post.

[zombywoof]

Geez, I have even heard about wooden truss rods in wartime Gibsons.

 

I have also seen pre-War and wartime Gibsons with two small screws helping keep the rectangular bridge down.

[BigKahune]

.

Not unexpected.

 

Now - how about examining that fretboard? . B)

 

 

 

.

[JuanCarlosVejar]

Lars ,

 

Wow this changes my view on the subject and it makes me excited about gibson all over again :) .

 

 

thanks for the post . Might we have a photo of your banner to admire ?

 

 

 

JC

[Tarrr]

All guitar manufacturers use the term, but the word 'vintage' is a placebo imo.

[Del Nilppeznaf]

Lars ,

 

Wow this changes my view on the subject and it makes me excited about gibson all over again :) .

 

 

thanks for the post . Might we have a photo of your banner to admire ?

 

 

 

JC

 

 

Me too JCV, I think this really adds some perspective to the whole issue B)

[Lars68]

Here is a picture of my -42 J-45

 

http://images.yuku.com/image/pjpeg/89d15ecf08c3e0efd745da2af58f72d70dc67b6.jpg

 

 

Lars

[57classic]

Here is a picture of my -42 J-45

 

http://images.yuku.com/image/pjpeg/89d15ecf08c3e0efd745da2af58f72d70dc67b6.jpg

 

 

Lars

 

That's a beauty

[livemusic]

Here is a picture of my -42 J-45

 

http://images.yuku.com/image/pjpeg/89d15ecf08c3e0efd745da2af58f72d70dc67b6.jpg

 

 

Lars

 

Wow, how did you find such a guitar in such fine condition!

[jt]

Lars,

 

Thanks for citing to Willi's and my Banner registry.

 

Yes, those stacked bridges weren't all that uncommon during the war years and pop up once in a while in pre-war Gibsons, too.

 

As for current laminations of bridges and fingerboards, the occurrence seems to be limited to Gibson. My view is that it's the result of poor planning, not the inability to obtain materials.

[Hogeye]

Lars,

 

Thanks for citing to Willi's and my Banner registry.

 

Yes, those stacked bridges weren't all that uncommon during the war years and pop up once in a while in pre-war Gibsons, too.

 

As for current laminations of bridges and fingerboards, the occurrence seems to be limited to Gibson. My view is that it's the result of poor planning, not the inability to obtain materials.

Please go to the original thread a read my explanation. I just phoned my guy in Montana and he gave me the reason for the laminated material. After you read it you will understand the problem.

[Spot]

Here is a picture of my -42 J-45

 

http://images.yuku.c...72d70dc67b6.jpg

 

 

Lars

 

Thanks Lars for that.

 

Man shes a beauty!!

 

[Lars68]

John, the Banner Registry is an invaulable source of information. It helped me tremendously during my search for an old -45. Thank you so much for yours and Willi's work. I also look forward with anticipation to the upcoming book.

 

For you other Gibson fans, here is a direct link to the the site: http://www.bannergibsons.com/index.html

 

My feeling is that the current laminations is a direct result of the federal raids, and the issue most likely relates to enforecement of import limitations regarding the dimensions of the rosewood. If this this is indeed the case, it probably won't be long before the other guitar manufacturers have to follow. John you have a different view. Can you please elaborate some more?

 

Lars

 

P.S. thanks all for the kind words regarding my guitar!

[jt]

John, the Banner Registry is an invaulable source of information. It helped me tremendously during my search for an old -45. Thank you so much for yours and Willi's work. I also look forward with anticipation to the upcoming book.

 

For you other Gibson fans, here is a direct link to the the site: http://www.bannergibsons.com/index.html

 

My feeling is that the current laminations is a direct result of the federal raids, and the issue most likely relates to enforecement of import limitations regarding the dimensions of the rosewood. If this this is indeed the case, it probably won't be long before the other guitar manufacturers have to follow. John you have a different view. Can you please elaborate some more?

 

Lars

 

P.S. thanks all for the kind words regarding my guitar!

 

Thanks for the kind words, Lars. And, that's a great looking J-45!

 

I don't disagree that the raids have impacted Gibson's resources. My point is that Gibson purchased from sources and by methods that differ from what other makers have done.