Pentatonic scale question

[daveinspain]

Can I use the pentatonic scales to solo over major and minor scales? For instance, if a song is in G major can I use the same pentatonic shapes and positions to solo over G minor… That's what I have been doing seems to work but I'm a hack...

[LarryUK]

I've always played the g minor with the root being (E string 3rd fret) G and the major G with the root being E (open E) in the pentatonic scale.

[daveinspain]

But can you interchange them?

[btoth76]

Hello Dave!

 

The notes of G-major (diatonic) are: G-A-B-C-D-E-F#.

 

The notes of G-minor (pentatonic) are: G-A#-C-D-F.

 

They won't blend well.

 

A-minor pentatonic will fit over the G-major (diatonic) designation, since it's notes are not conflicting: A-C-D-E-G.

 

Cheers... Bence

[Pin]

Can I use the pentatonic scales to solo over major and minor scales? For instance, if a song is in G major can I use the same pentatonic shapes and positions to solo over G minor… That's what I have been doing seems to work but I'm a hack...

 

One way of looking at it:

 

G Major Scale (relative Minor = E): G, A, B, C, D, E, F#, G

G Major Pentatonic: G, A, B, D, E, G

 

G Minor Scale (relative Major = Bb): G, A, Bb, C, D, Eb, F, G

G Minor Pentatonic: G, Bb, C, D, F, G

 

On a I, IV, V blues structure in G you would typically play:

 

G7, C7, D7

 

A rule of thumb often used (in Blues) is to play the G major Pentatonic over the I chord (G7) and to move to the Minor Pentatonics of the respective chords (C minor and D minor) for the IV and V chords.

 

However, the C7 chord contains these notes: C, Bb, E, D all of which are present in G minor except the E which is flat and D7 contains D, A, C, F# which are again all present in G minor except the F# which is natural. So broadly, G minor Pentatonic does work over a typical I, IV, V in a G Major song except that in changing chords it may be desirable (as a passing note) to adjust the leading note: e.g. F to F# when changing from D7 to G but depends on context and the amount of "tension" (clashing notes) you wish to create in your soloing.

 

Another option might be A Dorian instead of G Minor:

A, B, C (note C is flat), D, E, F#, G (note G is flat), A.

 

But really it ALL depends on the song and what your ears tell you! There are no definitive rights and wrongs (despite what some conservative music teachers say).

[Jimi Mac]

Can I use the pentatonic scales to solo over major and minor scales? For instance, if a song is in G major can I use the same pentatonic shapes and positions to solo over G minor… That's what I have been doing seems to work but I'm a hack...

 

Yes.

 

Like me, it sounds like you're most comfortable with the Minor Pentatonic scale and that is my home turf...

 

What I will do is supplement the major notes into that shape by bending or sliding or adding as a passing note because they fit to my ear with the music I'm playing...

 

It becomes a mixture of both Minor Pentatonic and major notes much like what BB King and Peter Green were both very good at...

 

I assume they both had vastly more theory knowledge than I do and knew when to plan those excursions out of the box position notes to highlight the major parts of the progression and melody, I however am not far enough up on my theory as I'm a hack...

 

I've found them by ear mostly by accident and tend to remember them at opportune moments when it strikes my ear...

[AXE®]

I have no idea what y'all are talking about.

[badbluesplayer]

From one hack to another Dave - Yes - if it's a song that's in a major key you can solo in a major scale or the minor pentatonic scale. If it's in a minor key you pretty much have to use a minor scale. :unsure:

[D28boy]

If your song is in G Major you would need to use need its relative minor to solo with. This would be E minor (the sixth note of the major scale). If you compare the scale notes you'll find that they are the same. You then just need to be aware where the root notes are etc.

[saturn]

From one hack to another Dave - Yes - if it's a song that's in a major key you can solo in a major scale or the minor pentatonic scale. If it's in a minor key you pretty much have to use a minor scale. :unsure:

 

What he said.

 

As a general rule, if I am playing a song in say Gmaj key, if I want it to have a "country" feel I will play the pentatonic major. If I want a "blues" feel I use the pentatonic minor. If you want that "Wind Cries Mary" sound, play a bunch of double stops in the major or pent. maj scale. I know that is a little over simplified but....

[surfpup]

But can you interchange them?

 

Eric Clapton made a career of it.

[btoth76]

A very nice example:

 

 

The tune is in C-minor.

 

Periodically, it shifts into G-minor pentatonic. C-minor's phrygian mode starts on G.

 

By substituting G phrygian, for G-minor pentatonic, Mr. Beck adds a dramatic effect to this wonderful instrumental piece.

 

Cheers... Bence

[Guest Farnsbarns]

To give a straight answer that is also correct. You can, if you're OK with the disonnance of major and minor third mix. The interval between these notes is the most dissonant in music. Doesn't make it uncommon and you don't even really need to know when you can do it, as long as your ear knows when you can't.

[Ryan H]

I'll take the opportunity to quote Mr. Guthrie Govan...

 

"If you can get lost, but somehow land on your feet without the melody jumping too far, and with the first nice note happening somewhere important within the pulse of the music, you sound cool rather than wrong."

 

It's the starting point and the destination that matter. Everything else is color.

 

-Ryan

[dbrian66]

I have no idea what y'all are talking about.

LOL, I'm with you. Pretty much lost. I am tying to learn this stuff though so this is a great thread for me!

[Guest Farnsbarns]

I'll take the opportunity to quote Mr. Guthrie Govan...

 

"If you can get lost, but somehow land on your feet without the melody jumping too far, and with the first nice note happening somewhere important within the pulse of the music, you sound cool rather than wrong."

 

It's the starting point and the destination that matter. Everything else is color.

 

-Ryan

 

Absolutely. This raises an interesting point. In blues, when the minor third is played over the major chord it is often/usually slowly bent towards the major third making that the "destination". Most of us will do this unknowingly. One thing bbking does a lot is hammer on from the minor third to the major third in a major key.

[badbluesplayer]

As far as blues goes, here's the deal. If the tune is in G minor, you use the G minor scale. The G major scale doesn't really work.

 

If the song is in a major key, say G Major, then you can use either the G Major or G Minor scales - or variations thereof. The key is to figure out when to use the minor vs. major scales and when to switch between them to make it sound good. There's no real rules, but the good bluesmen do it at the right time.

 

Lets say it's regular old 12 bar, I, IV, V blues in G Major and you're going to solo for 2 verses. Try this. For the first solo verse, solo with the minor pentatonic scale over the I and V chords and solo with the major scale over the IV chord. Try that for the first solo verse. On the second verse, try starting the verse off using the G major scale and play the major scale right through the whole 12 bars and maybe play the minor pentatonic over just the turnaround during bars 11 and 12.

 

Or switch it up on the first verse and play the major scale over the I and V chords and the minor over the IV chord and during the turnaround.

 

Again, there's no rules when to switch between the minor and major. But, like Surf was saying about Clapton, he's great at knowing when to switch up to the major and down to the minor. The major scale is pretty much the same shape but one step up from the minor. You usually start using more of the minor scale on the first solo verse and then as you go through your solo verses, you incorporate more major scale playing at strategic points in the 12 bar verses. You may get to the point - like in your third out of four solo verses - when you're using the major scale during the whole verse. Then as you bring the solo down during the final verse, you play more minor licks and end it on the minor pentatonic. So try using the minor scale when you want to project low dynamics and use the major scale when you're stepping it up.

[xkimo]

I have no idea what y'all are talking about.

 

Axe,

 

Man, this exactly why I gave up on golf for a while.I thought everyone else was so much better than me..

 

Not being 'Properly" trained (Professionally) from the time as a young cat when first I picked up the clubs..

 

Come to find out some years later,heck I had just as good a game as the crowd I perceived as better than me.

 

Same with Music,

 

I can read music enough to be Dangerous. HaHa.

 

I am learning again,again on my own.

 

Have been practicing pentatonic scales of late, Majors/Minors.My ears tell me when.

 

Later we'll tackle theory and the rest .

 

If I get a riff goin' and it sounds crackin'

 

Well it's just for me anyhow.

 

X

[capmaster]

There are two more things when playing blues.

 

First, the third determining tone gender usually is left off by the rhythm player. So the soloist might play "blue notes" floating between the minor third, B flat in case of G, and the Major third, B in case of G.

 

Second, apart from Major aka ionian, the pentatonic scale is often enhanced with an alterated minor seventh which is part of the mixolydian scale. This is extremely common in rock'n'roll but in rhythm'n'blues as well. In contrary, jazz usually stays with the Major seventh, and is particularly famous for that.

[xkimo]

There are two more things when playing blues.

 

First, the third determining tone gender usually is left off by the rhythm player. So the soloist might play "blue notes" floating between the minor third, B flat in case of G, and the Major third, B in case of G.

 

Second, apart from Major aka ionian, the pentatonic scale is often enhanced with an alterated minor seventh which is part of the mixolydian scale. This is extremely common in rock'n'roll but in rhythm'n'blues as well. In contrary, jazz usually stays with the Major seventh, and is particularly famous for that.

 

 

I will be saving this thread,very good one all..

 

X

 

 

 

[cookieman15061]

I have no idea what y'all are talking about.

 

Taking all the fun right outta playing me banjo!

[L8_4thesh0w]

To give a straight answer that is also correct. You can, if you're OK with the disonnance of major and minor third mix. The interval between these notes is the most dissonant in music. Doesn't make it uncommon and you don't even really need to know when you can do it, as long as your ear knows when you can't.

Ah yes, the dreaded tri-tones: the bane of theorists and the basis of teenage garage bands.

 

They can say what they will but sometimes the piece just takes you there, especially in ProgRock.

 

I've had stuff growing in my brain ever since first hearing Relayer by YES!

I know, I know... the subject was blues. FWIW the next offering in my library starts with ZZ!

 

 

Play on folks!

[Rob Mackillop]

The simple pentatonic minor can played in a surprising number of places, some sounding advanced. Try playing B pentatonic minor over C Major 7th chord, for instance.

 

Heres a list of chords and from which note of the chord family you can play a pent minor:

 

Major 7th Chords - 3/6/7 [that is, you can play a pent minor from the 3rd, also from the 6th, and also from the major seventh]

 

minor 7 - Root/2/5

 

Dominant 7 - 2/5/6

 

m7b5 or "half diminished" - 3/4/7

 

7alt (i.e.C7#9b5] - 2/b5/#5

 

 

Another very useful pentatonic scale is the Dom7Pent. On a C7 chord, that would be the notes C D E G Bb. Use it on the following:

 

minor 7 - 4

 

Dom 7 - Root/2

 

m7b5 - 6

 

 

 

Have fun!

[LarryUK]

As Steve Lukather said 'You're alway a semi-tone away from the right note'.

[xkimo]

As Steve Lukather said 'You're alway a semi-tone away from the right note'.

 

So true,So true.

 

X