charlie brown Posted November 4, 2013 Share Posted November 4, 2013 As said before, "Loud," as in being able to "feel" the music, and to experience the dynamics, as they should be, is Great! That's a good, even great "Live" music feeling/experience. What's NOT good, is when things are SO loud, they only mask, or even destroy the "music", to become just noise...melodically, instrumentally, vocally, whatever. I think, being very "general" here...that, in my experience, too many bands don't properly tailor their sound, to the various venues, they play. Instead, using a "one size fit all," mindset, while seeming to approach small bars, as if they were stadiums. It's one reason, it's good to have an amp, or amps (especially), that can do great tone, at both low volume, and much louder volumes, as well. Being really loud, just to exercise one's "F-You" to the world, does no one, any good! And, in fact, alienates people, who might otherwise sympathize, and even agree. Dylan (for just One example) got his point across, with just a Gibson acoustic, a harminca, and brilliant lyrics that could actually be heard, and understood. "Nasal" singing voice, and all. Granted, he did go "electric" later...but, you never lost the vocals, because he still tailored his sound, for the venune/sound system. Again, the PA should be the loudest "gear", on stage! IMHO, as always. CB Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
capmaster Posted November 4, 2013 Share Posted November 4, 2013 On November 30th, 2012 three of my bandmates and me attended a Deep Purple concert in Munich. As a precaution, I took ear protections with me, and to my surprise I was in no need of them. Deep Purple wasn't even louder than the opening act. The people around me heard me singing clearly with Ian Gillan, and I heard those around me singing, too. Besides their new songs, they were playing lots of the old stuff from the Blackmore/Gillan/Glover/Lord/Paice days. The audition was roaring and raving, estimatedly from about twelve to about eighty years old. My pals and me didn't have a ringing in our ears at any time, and the sound was crystal clear. It was one of the best concerts I ever attended, not only soundwise. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
charlie brown Posted November 5, 2013 Share Posted November 5, 2013 Yeah, a lot of the Pro's, have figured it out, some time ago. Most of the "biggie's" concerts I've attended, over the years, were at worst, manageable, in volume, and at best "awesome," all around, sound wise. ALTHOUGH, I will admit, the loudest concert I ever attended was "Deep Purple," in the early '70's! MY GOD! LOL It's just the smaller bands, that I have the most trouble with, sound wise. It's a shame, too...as a lot of them, are pretty good! They'd be a LOT better, if they'd just tone it down, to a more manageable level. Who knows...maybe they will, someday? CB Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zigzag Posted November 5, 2013 Share Posted November 5, 2013 Worst sounding band I've ever heard live: Stones Best sounding band I've ever heard live: Dead Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jaxson50 Posted November 5, 2013 Share Posted November 5, 2013 1383618212[/url]' post='1445660']Worst sounding band I've ever heard live: Stones Best sounding band I've ever heard live: Dead You have to take the venue into account. I have seen groups play in the same building, some sound good some, not so much..The point Bob Norton is making is right on, with the technology available today you can protect your hearing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zigzag Posted November 5, 2013 Share Posted November 5, 2013 I heard the Stones outside and the Dead in an indoor arena with lousy acoustics. However, I was close to the stage in both cases. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
milod Posted November 5, 2013 Share Posted November 5, 2013 I'm convinced that a major problem is when folks don't take the venue into consideration. We're not talking the singer-songwriter, folkie, jazz soloist here, but an out and out rock/country/blues band, right? The idea still is to give a solid music experience to a crowd. You can have good sound, extra-loud sound, or extra-loud good sound, but the latter takes a bit of professionalism and perhaps at times some equipment that a given band ain't got. My concern is that it appears there hasn't been as much consideration of getting the extra-loud good sound as there has been selling amps that can out-power PA systems. And that includes pickers who will spend $5,000 on a "proper" 8 gigawatt tube amp, and then $500 on a third-rate PA operation. <sigh> Jeeze, I'm sounding like a grouchy old man. But for what it's worth, the bands I've heard the past 10 years in all sorts of venues that really sound like a band should sound have had super balance and vocals you could hear. And all spent bunches more on PA systems, I guarantee, than on guitar amps. m Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Riptide Posted November 5, 2013 Share Posted November 5, 2013 Yeah it's sad how loud some things are these days :( Not everyone is though... when I saw Flogging Molly they had like the perfect volume (to me) it was loud but you could hear each of the seven instruments on stage vary clearly as well as the vocals. Now Dropkick Murphys on the other hand was just way too loud... all you could hear was electric guitar, bagpipes and occasionally distorted vocals and my ears rang for a couple days for them. I guess that's what happens when you have 4 100 watt full stacks 30 feet away from your face... On another note, I don't get all the guitarist that switch guitar like every other song WHEN their amps are up so loud you can't hear a difference. Although I've been to some shows where they switched things up and you really could tell. Like when I saw The Mahones their guitarist played a Gibson LP into a cranked AC-15 and Blues Junior and then switched to a Rickenbacker for some songs... amazing tone, but very different with each guitar. The other band I could really tell a difference with was Social Distortion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
milod Posted November 5, 2013 Share Posted November 5, 2013 Rip... I dunno what you're talking about in terms of bands - but I can't tell you how glad I am to hear a younger guy howling the same thing as some of us older guys that a band should be heard, not just felt from air pressure and noise. BTW, I heard that apparently a really talented local teen band kinda got the word from one of the kids' moms who also is a weekend warrior pro guitarist/solo singer. Apparently she did a vid on the cell phone that let them hear how their original vocals may as well have been pantomime since nobody could hear them over the over-pushed guitar amps. m Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
charlie brown Posted November 5, 2013 Share Posted November 5, 2013 Man, that's one thing, that I can't stress enough! Recording yourselves playing out! Either on Video, or with a small DAT recorder, etc. It's so helpful, and eye opening at the same time, as to what you "think" you sound like, compared to what you really DO sound like. CB Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pippy Posted November 5, 2013 Share Posted November 5, 2013 The volume at which Jack Bruce used to play was cited by Ginger Baker as one of the main reasons Cream split up. Even when they re-united a few years ago there was a danger of the concert being called-off at the last minute because JB wouldn't turn it down. In the end a compromise was reached when GB agreed to having a soundproof booth constructed around himself so that he wouldn't be 'in the direct line of fire', as it were. On November 30th, 2012 three of my bandmates and me attended a Deep Purple concert in Munich. As a precaution, I took ear protections with me, and to my surprise I was in no need of them..............My pals and me didn't have a ringing in our ears at any time, and the sound was crystal clear. I saw Purple play the London Roundhouse just a few weeks ago and can say it was exactly the same situation there; crystal clear sound - and at a volume where you could hear anyone around you speaking at normal volume levels should they be so lacking in manners! In fact all my 'Concert' experiences of recent years have been similar. I don't know whether it's just the bands I see have a different mindset from other bands but even Roger Waters, when he needed to fill both Earls' Court (Dark Side) and the London O2 (The Wall), achieved an almost Hi-Fi quality in both cases. Most recently, last week at the Royal Albert Hall, the Trucks-Tedeschi Band might have had a wooly-soounding sound-system but no-one could describe it as being loud. Smaller venues seem to be the same. On Friday I saw the Robin Bibi Band (fantastic!) play a small-sized indoor gig and even although we were only ten feet or so from the stage the sound was clear and nowhere near 'Loud'. Famously Mark Knopfler, in the early years of Dire Straits, used to turn the band's sound-system down so the audience would have to stop talking and actually listen if they wanted to hear the band. And It Worked For Him! P. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zigzag Posted November 5, 2013 Share Posted November 5, 2013 Famously Mark Knopfler, in the early years of Dire Straits, used to turn the band's sound-system down so the audience would have to stop talking and actually listen if they wanted to hear the band. And It Worked For Him! P. The last time I saw Clapton, we were stuck in the top of a sporting arena, off to the side. I couldn't hear the band from people talking. Why do people go to a concert like that and not listen to the band? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
geeterpicker Posted November 5, 2013 Share Posted November 5, 2013 I thought I'd heard the loudest bands after attending a lot of shows in the 70s, then my son asked me to take him to see Lamb of god and Metallica back in 2009. It was so ridiculously and painfully loud that I had to stand out in the lobby for most of the show. I was feeling drums pounding through my chest and it was very uncomfortable. I don't know how people or bands endure it. It was then I knew I'd never attend another rock show. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Riptide Posted November 5, 2013 Share Posted November 5, 2013 Rip... I dunno what you're talking about in terms of bands - but I can't tell you how glad I am to hear a younger guy howling the same thing as some of us older guys that a band should be heard, not just felt from air pressure and noise. BTW, I heard that apparently a really talented local teen band kinda got the word from one of the kids' moms who also is a weekend warrior pro guitarist/solo singer. Apparently she did a vid on the cell phone that let them hear how their original vocals may as well have been pantomime since nobody could hear them over the over-pushed guitar amps. m Yeah for sure There's just so much more to it then pure volume, I think music is about all these different parts coming together to form something beautiful and if it isn't balanced out you can't get that. When I step into I show I want to hear each part clearly (like on the album, right?) And the other thing is that at as high of volumes as people are using it really loses dynamics and tone... some of the best tone I've heard is from little amps or big amps that aren't ripping your face off. I also think people are using too much gain... I mean you look at Angus Young or Jimmy Page and they didn't use tons of gain... and then people will be using the gain channel on there amp and then a OD or Distortion pedal and they're wondering why they can't get that tone. I think people need to start using their ears and paying attention to these things. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kidblast Posted November 5, 2013 Share Posted November 5, 2013 wel there are two sides to the debate.. I'm in an acoustic duo.. we played a lounge one night where the CROWD noise was 89db... Good luck charlie hearing what we were doing! during the 25+ years I spent gigging (mostly with the same guys) we always watch the crowd, especially early in the night,, if they were screaming at each other, that was our cue,, we're too loud, we'd immediately back off. you gotta be aware of this stuff.... there is a point where you're entertaining, then there's a point where you're just killing people. I was at a benefit about 2 years ago.. mixed crowd, old folks, young kids. etc... the sound man was running the sound so hot, I couldn't even stay in the room. you couldn't distinguish any of the instruments and there was not a prayer of a chance on hearing any vocals. I'm not prune, but honestly, I couldn't believe the sound guy was doing that with KIDS in front of the stage watching the band. as I was leaving, I mentioned to one of the minions from the sound crew that it was ridiculously loud, he smiled and gave me a thumbs up... moron,, we got out of there while we could still hear. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pippy Posted November 5, 2013 Share Posted November 5, 2013 ...I think people need to start using their ears and paying attention to these things. This (very good) point has been made here once or twice before but certainly bears repetition. Hendrix is a perfect example of what you are talking about. Actually listen to his playing on 'Hey Joe'. It's practically clean - even the solo. But go see any pub-band playing it and it's all Big-Muff Pi, Fuzz-Face and cranked-up Marshalls. P. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
milod Posted November 5, 2013 Share Posted November 5, 2013 The next to last country/rock band I played in, we were the saloon's house band. We had the place pretty well scoped for acoustics and played so folks could talk, but then also could dance without pain from volume and could "whisper sweet nothings" were that their choice. The only time we turned up the volume from our "standard" was when some guy got angry with alcohol fortification at another guy dancing with his wife/girl and appeared to be whispering "sweet nothings" that the first guy took it to him. When they started to roll on the floor we upped the volume. <grin> m Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jdgm Posted November 5, 2013 Share Posted November 5, 2013 I thought I'd heard the loudest bands after attending a lot of shows in the 70s, then my son asked me to take him to see Lamb of god and Metallica back in 2009. It was so ridiculously and painfully loud that I had to stand out in the lobby for most of the show. I was feeling drums pounding through my chest and it was very uncomfortable. I don't know how people or bands endure it. It was then I knew I'd never attend another rock show. Now that is loud! Memories; Jean-Luc Ponty and his band at a small-ish theatre in Victoria, London sometime during the mid-70s. We went to see Larry Coryell and Steve Khan play support. Ponty came out and drew the bow across his violin strings; as the back of my seat started thrumming in resonance with it, my friend leant over and said "I think this is gonna be loud". It was. OMG. I spent the set cowering in my seat feeling sick. Halfway through they said ok, it's time for the acoustic section and everything acoustic was plugged in at full volume too! People were throwing up, leaving - I won't forget that one. Years later I was invited to see the Australian Doors in a Bristol club with a low ceiling. Really painfully loud, loud like geet says, from the 1st note. Since then I always take ear protection of some sort. And when I saw Bonamassa a few years ago, he did that thing with all the different guitars which then all sounded the same as it was so loud. Nice gear and carpet though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LarryUK Posted November 5, 2013 Share Posted November 5, 2013 I saw Journey last year and the sound was awful. So loud the building was shaking and all you could hear were drums and guitar. People were walking out. On the other hand, I saw Peter Frampton at the Birmingham Symphony hall and the sound was perfect. Just like Bonnie Raitt this year. Same venue, great sound. I do think that computer mixing might be a problem. People don't use their ears any more. The sound engineers have headphones on and the acts have in ears in too. So they don't actually know it's rubbish. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rabs Posted November 5, 2013 Author Share Posted November 5, 2013 Well this is the thing (thanks for all the interesting comments by the way ) If you were to go around talking to people in the same manner as these bands play as in going around shouting at people all day when you should just be talking, chances are your going to get punched in the face a fair amount :P The point being that there is a time and a place for loud and bands should react to each individual situation differently.. not just a blanket turn it up to 11 (or 12 as it seems some do these days :)). Its why I cant stand the Phil X videos.. he shouts too much!! (is that an American thing? :P) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
charlie brown Posted November 6, 2013 Share Posted November 6, 2013 Well this is the thing (thanks for all the interesting comments by the way ) If you were to go around talking to people in the same manner as these bands play as in going around shouting at people all day when you should just be talking, chances are your going to get punched in the face a fair amount :P The point being that there is a time and a place for loud and bands should react to each individual situation differently.. not just a blanket turn it up to 11 (or 12 as it seems some do these days :)). Its why I cant stand the Phil X videos.. he shouts too much!! (is that an American thing? :P) No, he's deaf, from playing too loud, all those years! CB Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Riptide Posted November 6, 2013 Share Posted November 6, 2013 Well this is the thing (thanks for all the interesting comments by the way ) If you were to go around talking to people in the same manner as these bands play as in going around shouting at people all day when you should just be talking, chances are your going to get punched in the face a fair amount :P The point being that there is a time and a place for loud and bands should react to each individual situation differently.. not just a blanket turn it up to 11 (or 12 as it seems some do these days :)). Its why I cant stand the Phil X videos.. he shouts too much!! (is that an American thing? :P) I love Phil X... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
daveinspain Posted November 6, 2013 Share Posted November 6, 2013 Hugh...? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
J.R.M.30! Posted November 6, 2013 Share Posted November 6, 2013 Turn down the volume, uh that wouldn't make any difference whatsoever, or did I hear ya right? :huh: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zigzag Posted November 6, 2013 Share Posted November 6, 2013 What? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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