Another topic, adjusting pickups (height and pole piece) for "best tone"

[crust]

I got a small flat head and Phillips tip screwdriver and have been "screwing around" with the pickup heights. I have adjusted the pole pieces and the pickups so the poles are as close to the strings as I can adjust them, without the strings actually brushing on the pole piece tops, with super aggressive "attack". Sounds pretty good, but I can't really say if it's any better before I did nothing. I might try screwing the pole pieces as far in as I can, and lower the pickups as low as they can go, to see if there is any output at all, with everything on the pickups adjusted as low as possible or hear how much the volume and tone are effected by backing everything off as far as those items can be, then trying raising to different height variations to see what happens. Has anyone here done this ? Comments.

[rct]

All of my guitars have their pickups flush with the pickguard on Fenders, and flush with the rings on Gibsons. They have been all the way down since the mid 70's. It gives the pickup the best and broadest "view" of yer strings.

 

rct

[Not-Too-Late]

I got a small flat head and Phillips tip screwdriver and have been "screwing around" with the pickup heights. I have adjusted the pole pieces and the pickups so the poles are as close to the strings as I can adjust them, without the strings actually brushing on the pole piece tops, with super aggressive "attack". Sounds pretty good, but I can't really say if it's any better before I did nothing. I might try screwing the pole pieces as far in as I can, and lower the pickups as low as they can go, to see if there is any output at all, with everything on the pickups adjusted as low as possible or hear how much the volume and tone are effected by backing everything off as far as those items can be, then trying raising to different height variations to see what happens. Has anyone here done this ? Comments.

 

This is interesting because I have messed around with these adjustments just recently. The same as you, I didn't notice any difference. Mind you, I didn't raise the pickup and pole pieces to their max. RCT mentions that on the Gibby's they should or have been all the way down since the mid 70's. I wonder what the science is behind this?

[Les Pauler]

I might be wrong but I believe the shape of the magnetic field makes the difference? Just a guess really.

 

Jay

[Not-Too-Late]

I found a little theory on this that might shed some light on the subject;

 

What about Magnet Type?

 

There are many types of magnets in common use. Ceramic magnets are inexpensive, but brittle and not too strong magnetically. These are commonly used in crafts and as refrigerator door magnets.

 

Other common types are:

 

• aluminum nickel cobalt [AlNiCo] (inexpensive)
• samarium cobalt (strong but expensive)
• neodymium boron iron (strongest and expensive)

There are some trade offs involved in pickup design. First, a stronger magnet means that fewer turns of wire are needed for a certain audio output. That means that the pickup can be smaller. If the pickup is made in some standard size, a stronger magnet produces more audio output.

 

However, the stronger magnet types are much more expensive. That's why most pickups use less expensive AlNiCo magnets.

 

Also, stronger magnets are not the cure-all for electric guitar. Since the guitar strings are ferromagnetic and are attracted to the magnets, the pickups affect the vibrations of the strings, which is bad since the pickups are only there to sense the vibrations, not change them. To get a feel for this, adjust a guitar's neck pickup until the pole pieces are very near (<5mm) the low E string. Play the string high up the neck and you will hear a discordant beat note induced by the magnets in the pickup. The distance from string to pickup should not be so small as to affect the sound.

 

It might seem smart to choose the strongest magnet, neodymium boron iron, and make a pickup so hot that you could plug a 100 watt light bulb into your Les Paul. But that magnet will either affect the strings adversely, or you'd have to make it so small that its magnetic field would be too concentrated. Weaker magnets necessarily must be larger in diameter to be usable, and they produce a broader field that is tolerant of the strings' movement while being plucked and bent.

I don't know if this helps.

 

Cheers

 

Wayne

[kidblast]

Adjusting single coils especially for a strat (IME) is probably a more critical detail than doing so with humbuckers.

 

with non-single coils, one thing I do tend to do is to set the poles in the humbuckers to sort of match the neck radius.

 

(adjust the screw heads in each pup according to the slight curve of the radius so that each string is in a uniformed distance from the pole)

 

does it make a difference? honestly from what I can "hear", I couldn't bet money on it.. perhaps it's just UN-needed voodoo that we do do.

[rct]

RCT mentions that on the Gibby's they should or have been all the way down since the mid 70's. I wonder what the science is behind this?

 

No, mine have been down all the way since the mid 70's, I didn't mean to sound like saying "should be". Actually, since I got a close look at Betts' white les paul, and later reading in GP about other guitar players that keep them down as well. So I tried it and found it true, less woof, less grrrrk, less bad noises in general with them down. So I've kept them all down ever since.

 

rct

[Scott0]

voodoo that we do do.

 

 

had to.

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SoM-ZC7uNnc

[Not-Too-Late]

No, mine have been down all the way since the mid 70's, I didn't mean to sound like saying "should be". Actually, since I got a close look at Betts' white les paul, and later reading in GP about other guitar players that keep them down as well. So I tried it and found it true, less woof, less grrrrk, less bad noises in general with them down. So I've kept them all down ever since.

 

rct

 

I see the light now . Since I'm trying to achieve a more mellow sound for jazz from my Epi Les Paul Standard, I might just crank the pups down and see what happens.

 

Cheers

Wayne

[Scott Marlowe]

I see the light now . Since I'm trying to achieve a more mellow sound for jazz from my Epi Les Paul Standard, I might just crank the pups down and see what happens.

 

Cheers

Wayne

 

Put .012s on an SG, crank down the pickups and turn down the tone a bit and people will never guess what guitar you're playing.

[kidblast]

had to.

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SoM-ZC7uNnc

 

 

yes! That's it Scott!! Hedley Lemarr... LOL! Classic...

[spacealf]

From Gibson:

 

http://www2.gibson.com/News-Lifestyle/Features/en-us/pickup-height-0514-2011.aspx

[Dennis G]

I'd also recommend this book for a number of reasons, if you don't already have it. He has some pickup settings, etc. noted in his book. I found that my Dot was way off in terms of actual and recommended p/u height. Didn't do any before/after recording, but did seem a bit more robust as I raised the pickup(s).

 

http://www.amazon.com/The-Guitar-Player-Repair-Guide/dp/0879309210

 

I've not really fooled with individual pole pieces.

 

Thx Crust, I always learn from threads like this.

[Skyline_UK]

Wow, excellent thread. This has bugged me for ages.

 

I'm a lead player (blues, rock, pop) and get really annoyed when I'm in mid-flight on a solo and go onto the top E string only find things drop away there. I often quickly re-jig things so I'm playing all the notes only on the 2nd and 3rd strings which have plenty of 'poke' and sound satisfyingly responsive.

 

I too have tried raising and lowering the first string's pole pieces and tried to kid myself I could hear a difference... Thanks to the above I'll have a go with a more radical screwing down, although it does seem counter-intuitive doesn't it?

 

An allied concern I've had is that on a number of my guitars not all the strings bisect the centre of the pole pieces as they pass over them. Is that essential?? I have an Epiphone Tonny Thayer which features two neck pickups as standard, so the strings on the one in the bridge position are way off from the centre line of the pole pieces, as you can imagine.

 

I will do some more experimenting and report back. And I look forward to hearing anyone's else's findings!

 

[capmaster]

Lack of string alignment to the pole piece centers is very common. Most Gibson pickups are "R" spaced which will match the middle position where is no pickup on most Gibsons. Besides the types with the "R" suffix, all the vintage remakes like BurstBuckers and 'YY Classics are "R" spaced without notice. Pickups with the "T" suffix will match the bridge position, and Dirty Fingers belong here, too.

 

"T" spacing is very close to "F" (Floyd Rose) spacing. Some of these humbuckers are referred to as "Trembuckers," meaning tremolo which is the wrong word commonly abused for vibrato.

 

Same is valid for next to all Fender Stratocaster pickups. To my knowledge, the SCN (Samarium Cobalt Noiseless) set designed by Bill Lawrence is the only one matching the strings in all three positions through using three different bobbins.

 

A string spacing wider than pole piece spacing is more critical than vice versa. The E1st usually translates best on guitars with aligned pole pieces in the bridge position. Sadly, this is not the case on most of my axes. :(

[Ed Zeplin]

I'd also recommend this book for a number of reasons, if you don't already have it. He has some pickup settings, etc. noted in his book. I found that my Dot was way off in terms of actual and recommended p/u height. Didn't do any before/after recording, but did seem a bit more robust as I raised the pickup(s).

 

http://www.amazon.com/The-Guitar-Player-Repair-Guide/dp/0879309210

 

I've not really fooled with individual pole pieces.

 

Thx Crust, I always learn from threads like this.

 

I just pulled this book out of a box today. Hadn't seen it for years. Great resource!

[Ed Zeplin]

 

"T" spacing is very close to "F" (Floyd Rose) spacing. Some of these humbuckers are referred to as "Trembuckers," meaning tremolo which is the wrong word commonly abused for vibrato.

 

Blame Leo Fender. ;)

 

[Starpeve]

I read somewhere about the starting point for a humbucker was to wind the polepieces down flush with the face of the pup, then to wind up each slug x amount of turns ( different for each string) to stagger the slugs a certain way as a starting point. I did this and thought straight away that my pups definition was better. Not that I'm any sort of expert by any means! Sorry I can't recall the actual settings but I'm sure a cruise on the googleator will turn up the info somewhere. I also set my neck p-90 as advised by one pickup maker(Fralin perhaps- or was it Duncan?) this way- dial down the slugs 1 /2 to 1 turn, all slugs by the same amount, below the pup surface, and raise the pup closer to the strings. This made quite an improvement, at least to the sound I was looking for. I can get a quite passable Neil Young 'Ol Black tone happening. As a matter of fact, I found that I get much more tone control now using just my guitar's vol and tone controls, and I'm tending to play(when I've got my amp loud enough) with less or no effects and loving it.

Edit- sorry when I said slugs I was referring to the screw polepieces.

[capmaster]

I read somewhere about the starting point for a humbucker was to wind the polepieces down flush with the face of the pup, then to wind up each slug x amount of turns ( different for each string) to stagger the slugs a certain way as a starting point. I did this and thought straight away that my pups definition was better. Not that I'm any sort of expert by any means! Sorry I can't recall the actual settings but I'm sure a cruise on the googleator will turn up the info somewhere. I also set my neck p-90 as advised by one pickup maker(Fralin perhaps- or was it Duncan?) this way- dial down the slugs 1 /2 to 1 turn, all slugs by the same amount, below the pup surface, and raise the pup closer to the strings. This made quite an improvement, at least to the sound I was looking for. I can get a quite passable Neil Young 'Ol Black tone happening. As a matter of fact, I found that I get much more tone control now using just my guitar's vol and tone controls, and I'm tending to play(when I've got my amp loud enough) with less or no effects and loving it.

When having same number of wire winding turns, slug coils have a significantly higher inductance than screw coils. Slug coils are more sensitive and offer less treble than screw coils. Therefore screw adjustment will affect both signal level and tone.

 

Different makes of pickups are part of the sound design, too. Gibson '57s with balanced coils show smaller differences than BurstBuckers where the difference is increased intentionally through overwound slug coils. The opposite is the case with the new '59s and '61s on which the difference is decreased by overwinding screw coils.

 

Options over options...

[frenchie1281734003]

I`m not really a humbucker type guy, but I have found with P-90s, particularly on Casino`s or 330`s, that it is best to have the bridge pickup as close to the strings as reasonably possible (The neck seems to be fine as is), and then slightly adjust the pole pieces (Both pickups) to follow the camber of the strings. Casino`s have a reputation for pickup imbalance, mainly due to the bridge one being further away from the strings. Just raising the polepieces alone doesn`t work, and you really need to shim the whole pickup, or just search for a guitar with a slightly shallower neck angle.

 

Steve.

[wrvond]

Down and dirty method:

 

Run the pup up until the outside pole pieces just barely touch their strings (E and e), then adjust the B,G,D,and A pole pieces until they just barely touch their strings. Do this for both (or all) pups. Then lower the neck pup until the E and e pole pieces are 3/32" from the bottom of their strings. Lower the bridge pup until the E and e pole pieces are 1/16" below the bottom of their strings.

 

See how you like the sound. Lower the pups about 1/16" at a time, checking to see how you like the sound each time.

When you notice muddiness or loss of gain, or any other negative thing, raise the pups back up 1/8".