Rhythm Guitar Rig

[carranoj25]

Hey guys, so a few weeks ago I posted about my first Rhythm Guitar audition and i Ended up getting the gig. Thanks for everyone reaching out. My next question comes down to my setup and having a great rhythm sound. We practice out of a rehearsal studio that provides equipment, but I want to start using my JCM 800 because I know that's what I'll be using at gigs eventually. All I have for it is a Boss Super Overdrive. We play classic hard rock covers/80s tunes/90s tunes, the likes... I want to hear opinions on what other pedals I should get to improve my sound. Also, what could I get that would help my lead tone for when I am just jamming by myself? Keep in mind I have no FX Loop so everything needs to be in front of the amp. Let me know thanks!

[stein]

VERY good question.

 

Wanna start by saying, if practicing for a particular gig, you want to practice using the amp you will use, and at the volume you will be playing at. I guess another way of saying it is, you want to make sure your rig is ready and you know what it will sound like, so you want to spend time with it as it will be used at volume, playing the stuff you will play with it.

 

Then, also, you want to be sure you have the APPROPRIATE rig for the gig. It isn't bad or unusual to want to buy a rig for a particular gig. That doesn't mean you have to buy an amp for every show or every band, but rather, if what you have doesn't fit the bill and you want to keep at it, it's a good investment.

 

A good starting point would be to find out what the band uses. Everybody does that. But also in this case, being your first gig and having no experience, you are gaining from theirs.

 

Gonna pause there because without knowing what the band has and what places/rooms you will be playing, advice is impossible.

 

But gonna throw this in: The amp or amp/effects is the most important aspect of the whole chain, far more important than the guitar and the hairstyle and shoes.

[Pinch]

You already have a good amp. I agree with Stein. For classic rock and hard rock - a Tubescreamer? An EQ pedal?

[merciful-evans]

I would be surprised if you needed anything other than what you've got.

 

stein has it right when he says practice at gigging volume. Thats the only way to be certain of your sound.

 

If for some reason you cant, then I offer this tip.

 

With whatever gain/distortion/effects you use. When you set the levels in a quiet environment, and after you've set them to what you think will be right, then back them off again by at least 25%. Because once you crank up the volume its going to sound more extreme than you think it will.

[deeman]

I play rhythm guitar in a group. We don't play much classic rock but my sound involves cleans and moderate gain. I have a Dual Rectifier half stack, LP studio and a simple effects chain including a phaser, chorus, reverb and a delay pedal. I rarely use the phaser but I like using the chours, reverb and/or delay with my cleans or leads. I like to keep it simple so typically I just play straight through the amp and sprinkle in effects here and there. The only other pedal i'd consider would be one of those electro-harmonix organ pedals to mix in for songs that would benefit from some keys.

[Pinch]

I'll add wear earplugs.

[kidblast]

with a JCM800, and the songs you're playing, I think you're pretty much "there"...

 

the guitar volume control should work for cleaning up where you want to articular chords or arpeggios

 

perhaps a compressor would help out, and maybe a delay of some sort?

[milod]

Seriously, to me there are so many variables in working with any band that I'd not suggest for or against any given amp.

 

What I'd do is take what I've got to a month or two worth of gigs, see what's happening, and then consider whether additional expense will buy anything for you and the group. If so, you'll have an idea of what; if not, put the money into a savings account of some sort.

 

As for something like the B3 sorta Hammond organ emulator, yeah, it can work well and I've used one with blues material ensemble work - but it's a way different technique too, along with the pedal.

 

But that brings me back again to working with the band to get a better idea of what you and the band might need - we all want more gear than we have, along with room to store and carry it - for what it and you are doing.

 

I'd say that my biggest errors in purchases has come because I thought that whatever it was, was neat and would offer me something I wanted. Just as often I ended up wishing I'd saved the cash for something I discovered in a few months was needed for what I was doing.

 

m

[Ed Zeplin]

A bit of chorus and delay would fit. Also an inline tuner that acts like a kill switch. I use a Boss TU-2. Can't go wrong with a Tube Screamer either.

[badbluesplayer]

[quote name='milod' timestamp='1459526590' post='1757304'

 

... I'd say that my biggest errors in purchases has come because I thought that whatever it was, was neat and would offer me something I wanted. Just as often I ended up wishing I'd saved the cash for something I discovered in a few months was needed for what I was doing.

 

m

 

Ain't that the truth! And I don't get much better at buying stuff as the years go by.

[JayinLA]

Im gonna agree with Stein. With a tube amp like a JCM, it's all about volume levels until breakup, and how you then use your effects. So getting familiar with using that amp in different circumstances will make life (and sound-check) much easier.

 

I have gone to running everything through the front (even though I have a loop). I only use a drive, a delay, and a wah...all true bypass. I take my amp's natural gain right to breakup at whatever volume the venue calls for, then I adjust drive based on how much saturation I want. Also with Marshalls, I've learned that sometimes backing off the volume and increasing the mid-range cuts the mix better.

[american cheez]

pedals aren't mandatory, but a basic board might be tuner, dirt/od, fuzz, chrous, delay. get a polytune if you're gigging. it's the only one with a screen that you can read in ANY light, it's accurate and fast. you also dont have to check and tune strings individually. you can strum all of them and it will read them all at once, telling you which ones are sharp or flat.

[Karloff]

as stated already, an in-line tuner that mutes the signal. and do a few gigs to see what you really need. I believe Milod said that. I'd like to have a dollar for every stupid pedal I've convinced myself I needed, only to have it wind up on Ebay 6 months later.

Practice with same amp as gigging, learn how to dial it in in any environment. and a touch of delay is always nice.

[rct]

I've been playing Klassik Rokk since it was New! Rarely use a pedal of any kind, only when we have to use house amps at casinos I bring something, and sometimes I've bought it on the way to the gig.

 

A decent amp with decent cleans and decent gains will get you what you need. You sound fairly new at this, no sense in cluttering your playing with this uber sweet pedal or that Every Other Pedal KILLER man!

 

It is also good to think about what the other instruments are doing. I have always managed to be with another guitar player that has a multi or big pedal board full of that stuff, so he can handle that end of it and he is always glad I'm not doing that, keeps us sounding bigger when we don't sound the same. Keys are important too, too much stuff running into your amp will turn the average mid range of a bar band into a large puddle of mud that you can't get out of.

 

If you are the guy in your band doing all the effects and such, I don't have anything for you. Any pedal that costs a hundred bucks pretty much does what all the other ones do, that's how I see it.

 

I should note that in my current iteration of Klassik Rokk bar band I'm going full on Solid State with built in gee-whiz stuff should I ever need them.

 

I will be in my dressing room where I will wait for the hate from the t00b guys.

 

rct

[milod]

I think rct hit it well too. I used to carry right at 200 pounds of gear not counting a pa. I now can get the same volume needed from 40 pounds plus pa that may be decent in a given venue. I ran clean anyway in rock or county rock from the 60s through the 70s.....

[Karloff]

I've been playing Klassik Rokk since it was New! Rarely use a pedal of any kind, only when we have to use house amps at casinos I bring something, and sometimes I've bought it on the way to the gig.

 

A decent amp with decent cleans and decent gains will get you what you need. You sound fairly new at this, no sense in cluttering your playing with this uber sweet pedal or that Every Other Pedal KILLER man!

 

It is also good to think about what the other instruments are doing. I have always managed to be with another guitar player that has a multi or big pedal board full of that stuff, so he can handle that end of it and he is always glad I'm not doing that, keeps us sounding bigger when we don't sound the same. Keys are important too, too much stuff running into your amp will turn the average mid range of a bar band into a large puddle of mud that you can't get out of.

 

If you are the guy in your band doing all the effects and such, I don't have anything for you. Any pedal that costs a hundred bucks pretty much does what all the other ones do, that's how I see it.

 

I should note that in my current iteration of Klassik Rokk bar band I'm going full on Solid State with built in gee-whiz stuff should I ever need them.

 

I will be in my dressing room where I will wait for the hate from the t00b guys.

 

rct

 

This , right here. i realized in the mid 80's, why use a Distortion pedal, when all you need is a good tube head. learn to get what you need out of the rig itself. thats not to put down the guys with all that stuff. I like things simple. a tuner, a wah, delay ...

 

ignore the end of his post . Solid State is evil. evil I tell you ! "Red means run son, numbers add up to nothin'" (which has nothing at all to do with the post, I just love that line from Powderfinger)

[Pinch]

Milod, Karloff: amen.

 

The only pedal I have left is a Boss EQ I don't even use.

 

I think it was Cannibal Corpse bass player Alex - of all people - who said it should resonate nicely even before you plug it in. There's something to be said for that.

[carranoj25]

Well, this is all great information. I am fairly new to this. Not guitar but being able to play live. It's so much fun! I definitely want to get a tuner to cut the signal. My lead guitarist was saying a chorus would definitely help. Maybe I am just not experienced enough to dial in the right tone with my JCM 800 yet. I use a SG standard with classic humbuckers keep in mind. Sometimes I wonder if I need better tubes and speakers. The OD pedal definitely helps, but as for jamming when I am by myself I can not get a good lead tone out of the amp. It's too bright even with treble and presence rolled back. What extra benefit would be gained from adding both an OD and a tube screamer? Like I said I am new so any info is greatly appreciated!

[JayinLA]

Well, this is all great information. I am fairly new to this. Not guitar but being able to play live. It's so much fun! I definitely want to get a tuner to cut the signal. My lead guitarist was saying a chorus would definitely help. Maybe I am just not experienced enough to dial in the right tone with my JCM 800 yet. I use a SG standard with classic humbuckers keep in mind. Sometimes I wonder if I need better tubes and speakers. The OD pedal definitely helps, but as for jamming when I am by myself I can not get a good lead tone out of the amp. It's too bright even with treble and presence rolled back. What extra benefit would be gained from adding both an OD and a tube screamer? Like I said I am new so any info is greatly appreciated!

 

THE drive pedal I use and have gone soley to is the OCD by Fulltone. It will dirty up the brightest amp right to stoner metal territory, or brighten up the darkest amp right "Back to the USSR" with the tone sweep. Or it does simple drive with outstanding pick dynamics. I don't wanna sound like a sales man but that is now my ONLY Drive and Distortion pedal I use.

 

I can go scooped Dimebag, I can go Bluesbreaker boost, Dumble smooth or the muffyiest of fuzz.

[rct]

The OD pedal definitely helps, but as for jamming when I am by myself I can not get a good lead tone out of the amp.

 

What record has a good lead tone that you like?

 

rct

[jdgm]

Very much agree with milod, Karloff, bbp....from many similar experiences. Those posts made me smile!

 

But I like fx.

 

Get them as you need them. This is important too. If you already know the following I apologise for being patronising.

 

A distortion or tube screamer can be used to increase the gain of the signal from your guitar, add controllable amounts of grit and should make the amp sound fatter and possibly more distorted.

 

Boost pedal - roughly the same thing only cleaner. EQ pedals can be used in a similar way.

 

Compressor evens out the volume level of the guitar so every note comes out of it at the same volume which is very useful for both rhythm and lead but they can be hard to set up right.

 

If you are playing any 80s songs you will probably need a chorus pedal. I love chorus and I still have er, 5 chorus pedals.....I used to have more. See Karloff's comments above!

 

On my gig pedalboard I have Volume pedal>compressor>overdrive1>dual overdrive>EQ>chorus>delay.

The overdrives are set to give me grit/boost, 'blues' distortion and full distortion. They can be combined for extra push and sustain.

The EQ is set to a slight mid boost for when I use P90s. And it cuts through if you kick it in, whatever the guitar pickups.

I usually have no more than one effect on at a time and more often, none; but it's fun to see how close to the recorded sound you can get when doing covers, I still love that part of it.

If you play the part as recorded note-for-note with the right tone, I guarantee you will get noticed.

I am always riding the volume pedal as I run my guitar volume at full.

 

Best wishes. Go to it.

[milod]

Rereading this stuff made me think of one pedal I'd likely go back to if I were doing any form of rock or blues, but more rock...

 

A volume pedal.

 

Depending on the amp, don't crank the volume all the way except on the guitar. The idea is to run the volume pedal about halfway so it blends with the rest of the band. Then the volume pedal can give sustain forever. Or, alternatively, it can change attack from a slam with a flatpick into something like a chorus of violins.

 

May be wrong on what the Yardbirds did on this, but the band I was in in "the day," used the volume pedal on this one both lead and rhythm.

 

m

 

[charlie brown]

Rereading this stuff made me think of one pedal I'd likely go back to if I were doing any form of rock or blues, but more rock...

 

A volume pedal.

 

Depending on the amp, don't crank the volume all the way except on the guitar. The idea is to run the volume pedal about halfway so it blends with the rest of the band. Then the volume pedal can give sustain forever. Or, alternatively, it can change attack from a slam with a flatpick into something like a chorus of violins.

 

May be wrong on what the Yardbirds did on this, but the band I was in in "the day," used the volume pedal on this one both lead and rhythm.

 

m

 

 

I believe, in that (solo) instance, Jeff Beck used a "Tone Bender/or Maestro Fuzz pedal, with the tone down, to

smooth it out, to a "violin" type sound/tone. He may have (probably) used his guitar's volume control as

well, to "clean" it up, as needed, for the verses. Both to great effect...IMHO. Loved the original Yardbirds,

but don't really care about, the "new=recent" version. They just sound like all other shredders. The original

band, had a very distinctive sound, and phrasing. I got to see them "Live" with both Beck, and later, Beck and Page

together!

 

Of course, that is the "Studio" recording, and has some overdubs, compared to the "live" version. So, anything's possible!

 

CB

[NHTom]

I myself go with the "less is more" theory many have mentioned.

 

I have a small board and only part of that gets any use.........if I were in the situation you describe......I too have a JCM 800.........here's what I personally would bring.

 

 

TC Spark Boost......clean boost to adding slight dirt....way more useful than it sounds. Works great with may amp set at a sort of "classic crunch" sound and it just a click to add a bit more gain if needed. Many above have mentioned rolling off the volume to clean it up, etc.....works great. My suggestion of the Spark pedal is it gives you three places.........sorta clean with the guitar rolled off.......your main classic crunch........and a bit more gain from the pedal if needed.

 

I also have a TC Hall of Fame MINI reverb pedal.........I use it set VERY mild. Don't know if I'd even need it with a full band.

 

A good Tuner pedal.......I currently have a Korg Pitchblack, but the TC is also great....the Boss ones are bullet proof too. Just a good thing to have at a gig.

 

About all I could think of to add would be based on what a certain song might call for......delay, flange, chorus, trem, wah, etc......but for my style of playing, they are literally the sort of thing that get used to copy one certain part of a certain song.......as mentioned above by others.....let the other guitar do that stuff...lol.

 

All this is just my two cents and probably isn't worth that much...lol.

 

Good Luck!!!

 

NHTom

[carranoj25]

I was thinking about adding a clean boost as well as my OD. But I always thought the clean boost had to go behind the amp. I definitely want the tuner pedal to cut the signal, and a chorus. I want to say a Randy Rhoads sound would be nice for the rhythm aspect of what we play. I almost want to bring my Line 6 modeling amp but I feel like it's just not the same as a tube. Not the same response/feel. i think an EQ pedal could really help, but I don't know much about them so I need to do research. Probably would help a lot if I got a 4 speaker cab instead of 2. And some better tubes. I think that would make a huge difference...