Mojorule Posted October 13, 2016 Share Posted October 13, 2016 Interesting point about the chansonniers, and I love Brassens, Brel and Cabrel. Brel certainly wrote lyrics which read like poetry on the page. Maybe some Cabrel songs might work that way too; his imagery at least can be very rich ('la Cabane du Pêcheur' had me fixated recently). Brassens is about content, though, isn't he? Cabrel writes a mean bullfight from the perspective of the bull, but Brassens's gorilla is still more daring. In terms of form, though, his lyrics are tied to his musical form, which is a bit like the French version of Luther Perkins's boom-chicka-boom with Johnny Cash. And Cabrel might be musically more varied, but he is effectively a mainstream folk-blues-country-rock musician with a band that sounds a bit like Dire Straits. So that leaves Brel who, for my money, is the only one whose work is properly experimental, and then - ironically for somebody whose strength is primarily lyrical - in musical rather than lyrical terms. Dylan really is in a class of his own across languages, I think, because he uses words in a truly experimental way, which goes beyond amazing imagery ('Hard Rains'Gonna Fall', 'Shelter from the Storm', 'Visions of Johanna') and daring content ('Lonesome Death of Hattie Carroll', 'Hurricane') and takes in the rhythmic effects of rhyme (take your pick, but 'Visions of Johanna' is good for me), or even non-rhyme ('Hattie Carroll'). I don't think they'll give the Nobel Prize to Paul McCartney or Paul Simon any more than they will to Francis Cabrel. They're all great, and in the case of PS and FC might work for readings without the music, but they haven't changed the horizon of what their respective languages can do in the way that Dylan has. quote name='Mafy31' timestamp='1476378086' post='1805734'] Not being of native english language i sometimes misunderstand the posts above, 2nd, 3rd, 4th degrees..., so i did not feel flamed in any way either. I think my post was wrongly written (i'm far from being able to win the price) and i also understand if my post did upset some (not sure it did though ?? and i hope not, this was not intended). I just meant that prices for writers are so rare, it is a chance for them to get to be known around the world, and it seems easier to me to be famous as a musician. I also meant that these prices are often about political choices, and besides, a musician winning the price could only be an english speaker. I think it is more fair to keep the price for book/writers. To make things clear, i'm a big dylan fan, i have played and sang many of his songs and love them. I even think he deserve the price. This is not about wether he deserves it or not, but what this price is about. I have no clue how the winner is chosen, but i know Dylan has been nominated/foreseen as winner for many years and it finally happened. Great for him, but less for book writers. Besides, there is many true poetry singers in other countries, in France Renaud, J. Brel, G. Brassens, F. Cabrel and many others could have won the price as much as Dylan, but they are french singers, can't be as known and understood around the world since the songs barely get translated. I understand if some do not agree and totally respect their different point of view, and i'm still happy for Dylan. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
E-minor7 Posted October 13, 2016 Share Posted October 13, 2016 Thanx The poet takes the mighty prize smaller than the one he had for ages A young Bob in dinosaur disguise An old Dylan turning final pages Who are they to claim him worthy but a line of clapping ants Did existence ever paint them dirty Did they wear a pair of fast-striped pants And what is mister Zimmie now Tell - does he know himself A leaf a ledge a horse with plow A book taken from a shelf And does he even really care Perhaps yes and then a no A 'maybe' followed by a 'sure' Go ask the person down below Poet Dylan person Bob They used to be the same By that the torch was lifted up It gave the man his name Hurrah you noble Nobel-folks The singing jester coughs The shaking tambourine cracks jokes The green grass smoker puffs Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mafy31 Posted October 13, 2016 Share Posted October 13, 2016 I am surprised that you know all of these, Mojorule are you french speaker? I would have thought 1st of Brassens. Thus i did some research and found many articles about writers thoughts on Dylan's price. They are split into those who feel great about it, and the others, angry writers. Here is an example : http://www.irishtimes.com/culture/books/i-wouldn-t-have-given-bob-dylan-the-nobel-prize-irish-writers-react-1.2828753 In another (in french, sorry), Pierre Assouline from Goncourt Academy is really angry about it, so is the Irish writer Irvine Welsh. On another side, the writer Alain Mabanckou, glad that Dylan won it, also added that Brassens would have deserved it too, at his time. http://www.ledauphine.com/france-monde/2016/10/13/le-prix-nobel-de-litterature-decerne-a-bob-dylan I just guess he pushed things a step further than others. In the Irish acticle, i retained this : John MontagueWhen trying to decide if song lyrics - even vivid plangent song lyrics - are actually poetry, the problem one faces is that without music they often die on the page. The music of the 1960s, that potent mix of folk, protest, rock and ballad, produced exceptional lyrics, particularly in the songs of Leonard Cohen, Simon and Garfunkel, the Beatles, and of course Bob Dylan. Of them all, Dylan is the most costive. There is a harshness, sometimes even a cruelty, in his depictions of love and love lost, as in 'Like a Rolling Stone' and his political songs are searing. But they haunt the imagination and the memory. Yet are they poems? When you listen to Simon & Garfunkel's The Sound of Silence, the language seems terribly powerful, but when you read the same words, they seem portentous and flat. Perhaps only Shakespeare can perfectly blend poetry and song, and it is a little late to give him the Nobel prize. However if anyone comes close, it must be Bob Dylan, who has touched what we like to call the zeitgeist with more surety than any other song writer in living memory, and whose lyrics are often startlingly beautiful. (My own favourite Dylan song is the diatribe on Hurricane Carter in jail.) John Montague is a poet and critic Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
j45nick Posted October 13, 2016 Share Posted October 13, 2016 Here's eight minutes out of your life that are worth giving up: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-ex-m-eEKsg Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blindboygrunt Posted October 13, 2016 Share Posted October 13, 2016 Take me disappearing through the smoke rings of my mind Down the foggy ruins of time Far past the frozen leaves The haunted frightened trees Out to the windy beach Far from the twisted reach of crazy sorrow Yes, to dance beneath the diamond sky With one hand waving free Silhouetted by the sea Circled by the circus sands With all memory and fate Driven deep beneath the waves Let me forget about today until tomorrow Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flatbaroque Posted October 13, 2016 Share Posted October 13, 2016 Great news indeed. It was always going to come but I'm glad he's still around to receive it while breathing - albeit late as this. Enjoyed the thread..especially Mr Mojo's musings. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fullmental Alpinist Posted October 13, 2016 Share Posted October 13, 2016 My compliments to you for retaining an aura of civility which, at this hour of the day, I could not have managed! My patience in that regard, sadly, was exhausted by teaching early morning literature classes to groups of marginally literate college freshmen. Eegads! Our thoughts and prayers are with you! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fullmental Alpinist Posted October 13, 2016 Share Posted October 13, 2016 Congratulations to Mr. Dylan. I've never been much of a fan of his, but when someone here on the forum posted this a couple of years ago my opinion of Dylan skyrocketed. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uSdVOEKW5YA Now, if Bruce Springsteen could finally be named America's Poet Laureate all would be right with the world: The screen door slams Mary's dress waves Like a vision she dances across the porch As the radio plays Roy Orbison singing for the lonely Hey that's me and I want you only Don't turn me home again I just can't face myself alone again Don't run back inside Darling you know just what I'm here for So you're scared and you're thinking That maybe we ain't that young anymore Show a little faith there's magic in the night You ain't a beauty but hey you're alright Oh and that's alright with me Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
QuestionMark Posted October 13, 2016 Share Posted October 13, 2016 I think its great that Bob Dylan won it. Lately, I've been commenting to people how unfortunate it is that it seems like Bob Dylan's vast works of lyrics have been reduced down to people only knowing 2 songs they often hear played on the radio. This Nobel recognition will help others to see that there is a whole vast catalog of monumental lyrics and lyrical images written by Bob Dylan rather than just Blowing in the Wind and the Times They Are A-Changin'. QM aka Jazzman Jeff Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MissouriPicker Posted October 13, 2016 Share Posted October 13, 2016 Three chords and a cloud of dust, nasal/monotone vocals, and words that could have been written by God. Love him or hate him, little Bobby Zimmerman has made his mark on the world (and in a very positive way). His music has moved generations and given people hope and "food for thought." Glad he's here during my lifetime. Looking-back through the years it becomes more and more obvious to me that I've been fortunate enough to live when giants walked the earth. God Bless Bob Dylan and what he represents. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jdgm Posted October 13, 2016 Share Posted October 13, 2016 Glad he's here during my lifetime. Looking-back through the years it becomes more and more obvious to me that I've been fortunate enough to live when giants walked the earth. God Bless Bob Dylan and what he represents. Big AMEN to that! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
j45nick Posted October 13, 2016 Share Posted October 13, 2016 Three chords and a cloud of dust, nasal/monotone vocals, and words that could have been written by God. Love him or hate him, little Bobby Zimmerman has made his mark on the world (and in a very positive way). His music has moved generations and given people hope and "food for thought." Glad he's here during my lifetime. Looking-back through the years it becomes more and more obvious to me that I've been fortunate enough to live when giants walked the earth. God Bless Bob Dylan and what he represents. As I've said before about the first time I heard him back in 1963, my first reaction was a 16-year-old's equivalent of "WTF?". And then I listened to the words. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Murph Posted October 13, 2016 Share Posted October 13, 2016 Larry said "Boom". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rambler Posted October 13, 2016 Share Posted October 13, 2016 It's all grand, but I'd be to question whether song lyrics classify as literature. Im not even sure about separating lyrics from the musical context. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pittgibson45 Posted October 13, 2016 Share Posted October 13, 2016 I would have given it to him 30 years ago. Right on, but more like 45 years ago. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rct Posted October 14, 2016 Share Posted October 14, 2016 Most of you are doing his work justice with your acoustic solo, duo, trio, whatever. I know him mostly from Rolling Thunder, the original drunken brawl rock. Hard Rain is in my headphones from front to back once a month. That was on tv at a really influential time for me as a young guitar player, and I play those songs with a band whenever I get the chance, which unfortunately isn't now, we are too hard rock for Dylan. So keep it up you ack!coustic mavens. Couple years I retire from day work and I'll catch up, Hard Rain will be a quarter of the material for one of my bands at least. rct Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
the other side Posted October 14, 2016 Share Posted October 14, 2016 Congratulations Dylan ! I'm glad to have heard your works through songs, instead of reading in a book and all the speculative perceptions of others. To me, your works are very clear to the point. Again, via music. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
E-minor7 Posted October 14, 2016 Share Posted October 14, 2016 Anyone remember this one - from the big corner 1994 ~ http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tZZjoaV2lBc Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
j45nick Posted October 14, 2016 Share Posted October 14, 2016 Anyone remember this one - from the big corner 1994 ~ http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tZZjoaV2lBc For some reason, I prefer the 1963 version with Bob, and his J-50 (if that was the guitar he played on that Town Hall cut). This is about the time that guitar went missing, but it sure sounds like it to me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fortyearspickn Posted October 14, 2016 Share Posted October 14, 2016 I agree completely with Mafly. While I would assume all here as musicians are happy to see this, it is hard to judge the works of poets and novelists in comparison to song writers. How do you compare "Blowin In The Wind". To "A Tree Grows In Brooklyn" or "Catcher In The Rye" ? (Please excuse the American frame of reference, there are obviously seminal works from all other countries). My point is that "literature" is usually thought of as a work that provides more depth and insight to the human condition than can be hinted at in a twelve or sixteen line lyric. And, music being more in the mainstream, has many other award programs. It would be like awarding the Nobel Prize in Science to some guy who slapped together a slide show on Global Warming, while ignoring true scientific advances Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MissouriPicker Posted October 14, 2016 Share Posted October 14, 2016 Of all the great songwriters, Dylan stands alone. Here's a novel on injustice in 24 lines. He doesn't need tens-of-thousands of words. How many roads must a man walk down Before you call him a man? Yes, ’n’ how many seas must a white dove sail Before she sleeps in the sand? Yes, ’n’ how many times must the cannonballs fly Before they’re forever banned? The answer, my friend, is blowin’ in the wind The answer is blowin’ in the wind How many years can a mountain exist Before it’s washed to the sea? Yes, ’n’ how many years can some people exist Before they’re allowed to be free? Yes, ’n’ how many times can a man turn his head Pretending he just doesn’t see? The answer, my friend, is blowin’ in the wind The answer is blowin’ in the wind How many times must a man look up Before he can see the sky? Yes, ’n’ how many ears must one man have Before he can hear people cry? Yes, ’n’ how many deaths will it take till he knows That too many people have died? The answer, my friend, is blowin’ in the wind The answer is blowin’ in the wind Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
E-minor7 Posted October 14, 2016 Share Posted October 14, 2016 The noble trophy for Dylan has been discussed since the late 90's. A bit of a sensation when it first was mentioned. Naturally because this is song-lyrics not clean poems or novel/short-story literature. I remember thinking : Weeell, his stuff is very varied and a lot of it doesn't really hold up as Nobel-prize potential. Then again the lyrics that do are extraordinary poignant and competent. And the oeuvre close to captures it all (let alone outer space, golf and sex). Think it must be remembered Van Gogh and fx P. Picasso wasn't comme il faut when they started showing their more wild pieces. But time caught up. A bit the same with Dylan. The Nobel-panel are younger people than when the idea was first introduced and they wear different glasses now. A main thought is that B.D. brought the written Americana (let's add universalia) up to date and passed it further so everyone could re-use and find it real. Here they are right - he definitely succeeded in that. At one point in time - maybe a period of 10-15 years there must have been one or 2 Dylans in every village under the western hemisphere. That's how big and influential he was. There's even a myth around here claiming the big madhouse in the country-side had a whole section for youngsters who thought they were B.D back in the day ☠ Not every musician can be counted as fans, but the percentage is huge. Of course primarily among songwriters. It goes from Pink Floyds David Gilmour to the busker on the corner. I believe Bob deserves this - but surely hope he isn't vain enough to take it too seriously. As said in my rhyme on the earlier page - They are a just line of clapping ants in comparison. Regarding volume it must be mentioned that poems can be short and song-lyrics can be long. Doesn't really count compared the cargo they carry. And here Bob Dylan is in the abstract heavy weight league. A song for every mood and mind-game, , , a line for every situation, , , almost. . . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sjl200 Posted October 14, 2016 Share Posted October 14, 2016 Three chords and a cloud of dust, nasal/monotone vocals, and words that could have been written by God. Love him or hate him, little Bobby Zimmerman has made his mark on the world (and in a very positive way). His music has moved generations and given people hope and "food for thought." Glad he's here during my lifetime. Looking-back through the years it becomes more and more obvious to me that I've been fortunate enough to live when giants walked the earth. God Bless Bob Dylan and what he represents. Exactly what I was thinking . He has indeed touched the whole world. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blindboygrunt Posted October 14, 2016 Share Posted October 14, 2016 Em7 might get it next year !! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
E-minor7 Posted October 14, 2016 Share Posted October 14, 2016 Em7 might get it next year !! Ha he hehe, , , not sure he'll accept it tho. . The panel is too square. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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