opaz Posted February 11, 2022 Share Posted February 11, 2022 Was gonna write more but I can't really put the question any more simply than that. Suppose I could mention I'm thinking of buying a 2018 SG faded ("slim taper" neck) And that I'm looking for 70s style sustain, like Wishbone Ash or Camel (neither of which used SGs so that's a good start :) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rabs Posted February 11, 2022 Share Posted February 11, 2022 No real answer to that... A lot of people will say yes it does help to have a fatter neck... I am not sure it really matters.. Its why we have things like reverb and various pedals... Does it really matter where the sound is coming from? PLUS, each guitar is different, each piece of wood is different.. No way to really quantify it either way. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
opaz Posted February 11, 2022 Author Share Posted February 11, 2022 I've got a crappy singe coil guitar at the moment. With effects I could make a note go on forever. That's not quite the same thing Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pinch Posted February 11, 2022 Share Posted February 11, 2022 IME, overall weight contributes to sustain. I don't know about the neck specifically. But I would imagine so. Then again, it differs from guitar to guitar, even with the same specs, like Rabs said. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rabs Posted February 11, 2022 Share Posted February 11, 2022 17 minutes ago, opaz said: I've got a crappy singe coil guitar at the moment. With effects I could make a note go on forever. That's not quite the same thing Yes, I have a tiny pignose guitar with a built in amp.. I can get it to do the same thing easy.. But my point is there is no real answer to this. Some people believe it does, some people believe it doenst for what ever reason. But because each guitar and piece of wood is different there is no way to prove it either way... I have seen many discussions on this and there is never any real proof apart from what people believe. Ive also seen tests on youtube trying to prove various guitar tonewood/sustain theories and no one so far has really come to any conclusion.. So again.. As you proved in you last post. We all know how to easily make our guitars sustain more if we want more through harmonic feedback.. Does it matter if it comes from the thickness of the neck or you turning up the gain or reverb on your kit? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
opaz Posted February 11, 2022 Author Share Posted February 11, 2022 This is the kind of sustain I mean. OK, they're old timers here and it's not the best they've sounded but I don't believe you can use effects to get that 'feel'. It has to be about wood and pickups Go to 2'40 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rabs Posted February 11, 2022 Share Posted February 11, 2022 5 minutes ago, opaz said: This is the kind of sustain I mean. OK, they're old timers here and it's not the best they've sounded but I don't believe you can use effects to get that 'feel'. It has to be about wood and pickups Go to 2'40 Well this is my point. Its not just wood and pickups is it.. Its an electric guitar, it also has an amp and probably a pedal board to make that sound... Let alone a sound mixer for the PA system. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kidblast Posted February 11, 2022 Share Posted February 11, 2022 I don't believe the neck size will do anything for sustain of notes. I have a few les pauls with different neck profiles, and humbuckers. There's really nothing in this regard beyond the "feel" of the neck and the pickup's performance. Then add on your amp, and things like OD pedals and compressor / sustainer pedals. Someone could come along and tell that after 50+ years of playing, I'm full of crap... and that's ok. maybe I am. In the video there, I think you're hearing whatever amp he's got running or perhaps some OD pedals and things like Compressor / Sustainer pedals. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rabs Posted February 11, 2022 Share Posted February 11, 2022 (edited) Ok so heres another point.. When Gibson first made the 60s Tribute Studio LP, there were about 10 colours to choose from and I liked most of them.... Found it really hard to decide which one I wanted... So I went to the shop and I tried like ten of them in a row.. Each was the same model made with the same specs, woods etc at the same time by the same people.. What you find when you do that is some of them you like, some of them you dont.. Some will have more natural resonance than others. They will all feel slightly different to due to tiny differences in the neck join and the set up. As it goes the last one I tried was a goldtop.. Never wanted one before that as, well its a gold guitar, just not normally my sort of thing. The first fist strum of that guitar and for whatever reason I fell in love with it.. To me, it was better than the rest I had tried by far. Someone else would probably have chosen a different one and been just as happy. That comes from personal experience and taste.. Which is what most of this comes down too.. If you feel fatter necks sustain more and it makes you a more confident player, go for it... But it does not make it a fact that all guitars with a fatter neck will be better for you or anyone else.. Which is why I say. Why does it really matter in the end.. We are talking about such small differences. And as said, its why we have controls and pedals, to dial in the exact sound we do want to hear and play with. Edited February 11, 2022 by Rabs 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rabs Posted February 11, 2022 Share Posted February 11, 2022 (edited) 30 minutes ago, kidblast said: I don't believe the neck size will do anything for sustain of notes. I have a few les pauls with different neck profiles, and humbuckers. There's really nothing in this regard beyond the "feel" of the neck and the pickup's performance. Then add on your amp, and things like OD pedals and compressor / sustainer pedals. Someone could come along and tell that after 50+ years of playing, I'm full of crap... and that's ok. maybe I am. In the video there, I think you're hearing whatever amp he's got running or perhaps some OD pedals and things like Compressor / Sustainer pedals. Also dont forget the all important technique.. How a player attacks the strings and how they hold the neck etc will all make a difference too and is something we all do slightly differently. Edited February 11, 2022 by Rabs Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rct Posted February 11, 2022 Share Posted February 11, 2022 Necks don't sustain, guitar players do. rct 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
opaz Posted February 11, 2022 Author Share Posted February 11, 2022 Rabs, I feel more confident with skinny necks, is why I've always played Fender style guitars (10 years in a garage rock band - they kept pestering me to do fuzz solos). In retirement I realise what I really like is authentic sustain. Re pedals and effects - I'll always believe it's what you start with, not what you can do with it later. Farnsbarns, that's pretty deep but I checked your posts and you obviously know what you're talking about. Unfortunately, I live in the middle of nowhere and it means I'd have to take an extremely long trip to a guitar shop in a city. I'd been planning on just getting an SG Faded off the internet. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rabs Posted February 11, 2022 Share Posted February 11, 2022 (edited) 8 minutes ago, opaz said: Rabs, I feel more confident with skinny necks, is why I've always played Fender style guitars (10 years in a garage rock band - they kept pestering me to do fuzz solos). In retirement I realise what I really like is authentic sustain. Re pedals and effects - I'll always believe it's what you start with, not what you can do with it later. Farnsbarns, that's pretty deep but I checked your posts and you obviously know what you're talking about. Unfortunately, I live in the middle of nowhere and it means I'd have to take an extremely long trip to a guitar shop in a city. I'd been planning on just getting an SG Faded off the internet. Well I also prefer slim necks, all of my Gibson have them.. And it has nothing to do with sustain but more importantly how it feels to play.. Fat 50s neck cramp my hands up for some reason.. So I guess maybe my point is.. Regardless of the neck, some guitars will be more naturally resonant than other due to the fact they are made of wood and each piece is different.. And while having a fatter neck may help a bit, its not really significant enough to worry about either way... Especially as said when we all use amps to play them with that give you control over the fine tuning of your sound. Maybe go ask the same question over in the acoustic section.. Now acoustics, they really are all about the wood (and construction type). Edited February 11, 2022 by Rabs Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Retired Posted February 12, 2022 Share Posted February 12, 2022 I agree with everyone here. As a teen, I had a very expensive tube amp. Even my cheapest guitars put out endless sustain, just crank up the volume. I get very little to no sustain on my solid state amps but this Fender Super Champ X2 Tube amp gets plenty enough for me. All my guitars have the skinny necks also. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Larsongs Posted February 12, 2022 Share Posted February 12, 2022 This You Tube is an Eye Opener re; Sustain & Tone……. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NighthawkChris Posted February 12, 2022 Share Posted February 12, 2022 @Larsongs yeah I saw something like this before too. With an electric I believe that a lot of the tone is in the pickups, how they are adjusted, and amp. None of the hide glue business, long/short neck tenon, body weight, etc. has any effect that makes a significant difference. The video I saw like this way back was similar… a guy basically made a guitar out of a fence post or something and same type of results as video you shared. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SteveFord Posted February 12, 2022 Share Posted February 12, 2022 (edited) Every Flying V I've ever played had a slim neck and the guitar is really light. I believe Andy Powell started with a new Flying V back in the 70s when they were first starting out which makes me think slim neck on his particular guitar. Edited February 12, 2022 by SteveFord 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
merciful-evans Posted February 12, 2022 Share Posted February 12, 2022 Further to Larsongs clip. I watched that and this one also last night. He goes about this in a precise and methodical manner. Scientific? Not quite, but certainly thorough. I have a couple of guitars with extremely chunky necks. The Rickenbacker 650C has the widest (1.75" inches) and thickest maple neck for a steel strung electric I have ever played. I have not noticed that it sustains any differently to any other model. TBH, its not something that concerns me, but if there was a difference think I would have noticed. OTOH, a luthier/builder once told me that the neck was responsible for sustain, but that just doesn't align with my own experience. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NighthawkChris Posted February 12, 2022 Share Posted February 12, 2022 58 minutes ago, merciful-evans said: OTOH, a luthier/builder once told me that the neck was responsible for sustain, but that just doesn't align with my own experience. Got to love those that claim their gut feeling or whatever as fact. That’s called seeing through the BS. A lot of it out there today. It’s like those that tell you to learn how to play music by “feeling” it. Literally the worst advice ever. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pinch Posted February 12, 2022 Share Posted February 12, 2022 13 hours ago, Rabs said: So I guess maybe my point is.. Regardless of the neck, some guitars will be more naturally resonant than other due to the fact they are made of wood and each piece is different.. This. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kidblast Posted February 12, 2022 Share Posted February 12, 2022 13 hours ago, Rabs said: Also dont forget the all important technique.. How a player attacks the strings and how they hold the neck etc will all make a difference too and is something we all do slightly differently. it really is all in the hands, many people don't get it, but that's the end of the tale. 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sparquelito Posted February 12, 2022 Share Posted February 12, 2022 14 hours ago, opaz said: This is the kind of sustain I mean. OK, they're old timers here and it's not the best they've sounded but I don't believe you can use effects to get that 'feel'. It has to be about wood and pickups Go to 2'40 In my opinion, it's the finger vibrato technique of Andy Powell there that accounts for the sustain you hear in that performance, not the thickness of the neck. The only measurable, quantifiable sustain that you might determine from the construction of the guitar would involve putting a given guitar into a jig or vice, having a machine pluck a string in a standardized, consistent fashion, and then taking readings from an oscilloscope. Measuring of course the waveforms but more importantly the time from pluck to decay and silence. Just sayin'. 😗 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Larsongs Posted February 12, 2022 Share Posted February 12, 2022 This You Tube is an Eye Opener re; Sustain & Tone……. Or maybe just use a Pick… Point is that 99.9% of the Tone, Sustain hyperbole is BS… It’s Hype.. It appears from all the examples given the Pickups & the Amp have more to with it than anything… Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mihcmac Posted February 12, 2022 Share Posted February 12, 2022 Could be just my imagination that my 56 LP Std seems to be capable of incredible sustain with its chunky 50's style neck, almost as much as my 339 with its way more comfortable rounded C neck. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pinch Posted February 12, 2022 Share Posted February 12, 2022 The sustain is in the receipt. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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