Sgt. Pepper Posted January 8, 2023 Share Posted January 8, 2023 (edited) 2 hours ago, fortyearspickn said: I agree completely Steve: most of us are less finicky. - like me, I suppose, priding myself with normal levels of finickiness. But, the fact remains, Martin created a market for themselves to sell Really Expensive guitars - priced way above their Mexican ones and their best sellers around $3-4K. And the people who buy them (other than those dentists and cardiologists Sgt.Pepper warns us about every week) are 'cork sniffers'. They want to know if the RW is from Madagascar or India or a stump in Brazil or was sunk in a river somewhere exotic. And if you're paying premium bucks - say $10K - it is no longer because you're a fan boy. It's because you want to know (to be able to brag, yes - but to RE-SELL ) exactly what kind of wood is on the guitar. I doubt these people care about what species of wood trim is on their Beemers. But a guitar is, at the end of the day - a wood instrument. Regardless of the many places on the internet Martin 'specs' are discussed - for year old models or for those coming out in the future, and holding 'reading comprehension' issues aside ... IF Martin intends to be vague about the specs of higher end guitars, it is their right. As it is the right of the cork sniffers to push back. So, on a guitar forum - since Martin is the 500 lb. gorilla - the question is fair game. So Gibson's acoustic are not expensive? You must have better stuff in your pipe than I have if you believe the garbage your spewing. 9k for a D-45 is just stupid, even I'll admit that. A Gibson HB is 4k, Dove is 4.5k, a SJ-200 is 5k, a J-45 is 2.8k. Really inexpensive huh? I will toot Gibson's horn for a minuite, and then untoot it. I was glad to see they made an acoustic for an affordable price, the J-15. I had one and didn't like it, but it was like $1299 (I bought mine used for $950), and came with a case not a golf bag. People loved and bought them, and then in Gibson's infinite and greedy wisdom decided to pull it from the line to make the higher priced stuff. I know my 000-28 is RW and the 000-18 is Hog. What kind and where it was harvested I don't have a clue or care. I like the sound of mine and that is why I still have them. Edited January 8, 2023 by Sgt. Pepper 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Larsongs Posted January 8, 2023 Author Share Posted January 8, 2023 2 hours ago, fortyearspickn said: I agree completely Steve: most of us are less finicky. - like me, I suppose, priding myself with normal levels of finickiness. But, the fact remains, Martin created a market for themselves to sell Really Expensive guitars - priced way above their Mexican ones and their best sellers around $3-4K. And the people who buy them (other than those dentists and cardiologists Sgt.Pepper warns us about every week) are 'cork sniffers'. They want to know if the RW is from Madagascar or India or a stump in Brazil or was sunk in a river somewhere exotic. And if you're paying premium bucks - say $10K - it is no longer because you're a fan boy. It's because you want to know (to be able to brag, yes - but to RE-SELL ) exactly what kind of wood is on the guitar. I doubt these people care about what species of wood trim is on their Beemers. But a guitar is, at the end of the day - a wood instrument. Regardless of the many places on the internet Martin 'specs' are discussed - for year old models or for those coming out in the future, and holding 'reading comprehension' issues aside ... IF Martin intends to be vague about the specs of higher end guitars, it is their right. As it is the right of the cork sniffers to push back. So, on a guitar forum - since Martin is the 500 lb. gorilla - the question is fair game. Excellent points.. I find the older I get the more I want to know what I’m investing in.. I do want to know the Specs of my Corvette & my other Vehicles… I special Ordered them to my Specs.. I grew up in the Construction Industry & studied Architecture in School… When I had our first House built & our current House I wanted certain Specs.. In my Home Project Recording Studio I want certain Spec Equipment.. Mics’s, Amps, Pre-Amps, Monitors etc. I had Apple build my Computer to my Specs.. In my early days I was naive about Guitars, Amps & related Gear.. I got a job working at Giant Music near Wash. D.C. when I was in College & playing in Bands.. I started learning about Gear.. I worked at another Music Store in Palm Springs, Ca. later & continued to learn.. But, still knew very little.. I guess I’ve always been a Spec kind of Guy.. I want to know what I’m buying.. Especially big Ticket items.. When I do sell something I want to provide the Buyer with all the information to justify the Price I ask.. If I have it in writing from the Manufacturer it’s very helpful.. I don’t see knowledge as a bad thing.. I don’t understand people who do? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
badbluesplayer Posted January 8, 2023 Share Posted January 8, 2023 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dub-T-123 Posted January 8, 2023 Share Posted January 8, 2023 I get the joke but I love tormek 😍 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sgt. Pepper Posted January 8, 2023 Share Posted January 8, 2023 Duck Season Wabbit Season to infinity 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SteveFord Posted January 8, 2023 Share Posted January 8, 2023 Duck Season Wabbit Season SPEC SEASON!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sgt. Pepper Posted January 8, 2023 Share Posted January 8, 2023 (edited) You think someone who is going to buy a new Lamborghini is gonna show up thinking they are gonna spend $12000? Not on your life. Same with a D-45. You know about how much your going to spend and what caliber of guitar it is. You guys are ridiculous with this BS. Edited January 8, 2023 by Sgt. Pepper Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fortyearspickn Posted January 9, 2023 Share Posted January 9, 2023 7 hours ago, Sgt. Pepper said: So Gibson's acoustic are not expensive? You must have better stuff in your pipe than I have if you believe the garbage you’re spewing. Deflect much? We’re discussing Martin’s. I said some of them are expensive. Didn’t say Gibson or Taylor doesn’t have high end models. Just not relevant. Yet it’s the first thing that comes to your mind. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sgt. Pepper Posted January 9, 2023 Share Posted January 9, 2023 (edited) 46 minutes ago, fortyearspickn said: Deflect much? We’re discussing Martin’s. I said some of them are expensive. Didn’t say Gibson or Taylor doesn’t have high end models. Just not relevant. Yet it’s the first thing that comes to your mind. My wife says I’m the master of deflection. But this is a Gibson site. As I’ve been told a trillion times. Edited January 9, 2023 by Sgt. Pepper Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Larsongs Posted January 9, 2023 Author Share Posted January 9, 2023 (edited) So you go to Reverb & find a great Used D-45 for a pretty good Price.. Say… $6000.00.. The guy posts Pics & says it’s Mint & lists all the Specs it should have.. No real proof, just his word. You buy it in good faith.. How do you ever know if it was real? His word? Really? It could be Chartin D-45.. You know, MIC Martin Knock off… worth a few Hundred. Bucks, maybe.. You got screwed! The Seller might’ve got screwed too & didn’t know.. No recourse.. Then you spend the time & money to have it appraised by a “Pro”, as someone recommended, how do you prove you’re not scamming the Seller? Edited January 9, 2023 by Larsongs Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sgt. Pepper Posted January 9, 2023 Share Posted January 9, 2023 (edited) 9 hours ago, Larsongs said: So you go to Reverb & find a great Used D-45 for a pretty good Price.. Say… $6000.00.. The guy posts Pics & says it’s Mint & lists all the Specs it should have.. No real proof, just his word. You buy it in good faith.. How do you ever know if it was real? His word? Really? It could be Chartin D-45.. You know, MIC Martin Knock off… worth a few Hundred. Bucks, maybe.. You got screwed! The Seller might’ve got screwed too & didn’t know.. No recourse.. Then you spend the time & money to have it appraised by a “Pro”, as someone recommended, how do you prove you’re not scamming the Seller? On Reverb you have buyer protection, and if the person selling it to you is dishonest then Reverb gets involved. Go to the site and look all this stuff up. And if someone fakes a Martin its most likely going to be a D-28 not a D-45. 9k guitar are not just flying off the shelf. It’s like with Gibson most fakes are LP Standards and not Studios. Edited January 9, 2023 by Sgt. Pepper Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SteveFord Posted January 9, 2023 Share Posted January 9, 2023 A tour guide told us that Martin puts a microchip in the neck when they build the guitar to week out counterfeits. I didn't ask when they started doing this but it's been at least for the past decade. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fortyearspickn Posted January 9, 2023 Share Posted January 9, 2023 And a taco chip in the Mexican ones? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sgt. Pepper Posted January 9, 2023 Share Posted January 9, 2023 16 minutes ago, fortyearspickn said: And a taco chip in the Mexican ones? That’s funny. Mexican is what’s for dinner. Mex Martins sound like poo. I would not own one. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fortyearspickn Posted January 9, 2023 Share Posted January 9, 2023 It comes back around to - get the best guitar you can afford, after you pay your monthly bills - depending upon how seriously you take playing the guitar. Insulting someone's guitar is like insulting someone's car or truck. If a 15 year old Camry works for your neighbor, who's to say he should have car payments so he can drive a car you approve of? I wouldn't have an Epiphone Masterbuilt for example NOW - but back in the day, it would have been the best I could have afforded. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Larsongs Posted January 9, 2023 Author Share Posted January 9, 2023 (edited) 6 hours ago, Sgt. Pepper said: On Reverb you have buyer protection, and if the person selling it to you is dishonest then Reverb gets involved. Go Tom the site and look all this stuff up. And if someone fakes a Martin its most likely going to be a D-28 not a D-45. 9k guitar are not just flying off the shelf. It’s like with Gibson most fakes are LP Standards and not Studios. Whatever. Say it’s a D-28 or a J-45 or something else that many consider to be an expensive Premium Guitar? In my example.. What if the Seller says to Reverb, I sold him a real Martin D-45! The Buyer is trying to scam me, get all his Money back, send me a fake MIC knockoff & keep my real D-45 for free! I know Guys who have horror stories about their experiences Selling on Reverb! 99% of the time the Buyer wins…. Edited January 9, 2023 by Larsongs Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rct Posted January 9, 2023 Share Posted January 9, 2023 4 minutes ago, Larsongs said: Whatever. Say it’s a D-28 or a J-45 or something else that’s what many consider an expensive Premium Guitar? In my example.. What if the Seller says to Reverb, I sold him a real Martin D-45. The Buyer is trying to scam me, all his Money back, Send me an MIC knockoff & keep my real D-45 for free! I know Guys who have horror stories about their experiences Selling on Reverb! 99% of the time the Buyer wins…. And somehow this is all because of the change to the words "Sitka Spruce"? Terrifying. rct 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Larsongs Posted January 9, 2023 Author Share Posted January 9, 2023 I’m going to call Martin & ask about the Chip… Seems like a lot of extra expense & work.. Especially given they won’t even provide a complete Spec Sheet. If Martin really does that, Great! Seems they could also include the Specs with whatever else on on that Chip…. How can one access the Chip for information? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rct Posted January 9, 2023 Share Posted January 9, 2023 17 minutes ago, Larsongs said: I’m going to call Martin & ask about the Chip… Seems like a lot of extra expense & work.. Especially given they won’t even provide a complete Spec Sheet. If Martin really does that, Great! Seems they could also include the Specs with whatever else on on that Chip…. How can one access the Chip for information? Yer better off with a Rogue. rct Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Whitefang Posted January 9, 2023 Share Posted January 9, 2023 23 hours ago, Larsongs said: Excellent points.. I find the older I get the more I want to know what I’m investing in.. I do want to know the Specs of my Corvette & my other Vehicles… I special Ordered them to my Specs.. I grew up in the Construction Industry & studied Architecture in School… When I had our first House built & our current House I wanted certain Specs.. In my Home Project Recording Studio I want certain Spec Equipment.. Mics’s, Amps, Pre-Amps, Monitors etc. I had Apple build my Computer to my Specs.. There's the answer then. DON'T buy a Martin, Gibson or any guitar off the rack. Have them build one for you to your specs. Should cost nothing more than chump change, right? 🙄 Sure. 🤪 But I didn't notice Lars, your offer to aid others here financially in order for them to live up to your exacting standards. Most people don't have houses built, they buy what looks good and sturdy enough for them at prices they can afford. Having every or anything built for them at certain specs is beyond their income level. Most people didn't grow up in the construction industry or study architecture in school, or are instinctive enough auto mechanics to draw up a list of exacting specifications for a car they wish to order. The first car I bought brand new and ordered from the dealer dealt with typical "specs". Color of the car and interior, and any other available options. Most people back then only did it that way. Not knowing the exact wood a guitar was assembled with might not have any negative affect in it's tone or durability. The buyer's ear will determine how good it sounds to THEM(they're the one buying it after all) and with attentive care will probably last a lifetime. Whitefang Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SteveFord Posted January 9, 2023 Share Posted January 9, 2023 (edited) This whole thing seems fraught with peril. The safest bet is to not buy anything. Edited January 9, 2023 by SteveFord 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sgt. Pepper Posted January 9, 2023 Share Posted January 9, 2023 (edited) Chip in the guitar? Man I got a bridge in NY for cheap if you want it, and a D-45 with all your specs for only $200, I’ll even deliver it personally. They have the chip for pets and your keys but I’m sure it requires a battery so it can detect the location. You bought that hook, line, and sinker. Edited January 9, 2023 by Sgt. Pepper Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Larsongs Posted January 9, 2023 Author Share Posted January 9, 2023 56 minutes ago, rct said: And somehow this is all because of the change to the words "Sitka Spruce"? Terrifying. rct Nope! It’s about letting People know what they’re buying.. The Milk, Eggs, Bread, Butter, Meat & Poultry I buy let me know what I’m buying written on the label… Why the F wouldn’t a Guitar that costs $$ Thousands of Dollars $$???? Holy Crap! You’d think I was asking for the World!!! My comments are the results of some of the Far Out Comments from many of you here who don’t care what you spend you’re money on or what you’re getting.. Yes Sound & Playability is all important! So is Quality & knowing what I’m getting for my Money.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Larsongs Posted January 9, 2023 Author Share Posted January 9, 2023 8 minutes ago, Sgt. Pepper said: Chip in the guitar? Man I got a bridge in NY for cheap if you want it, and a D-45 with all your specs for only $200, I’ll even deliver it personally. They have the chip for pets and your keys but I’m sure it requires a battery so it can detect the location. You bought that hook, line, and sinker. If you’re following along you should’ve read, “I’m calling Martin to verify”…… Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sgt. Pepper Posted January 9, 2023 Share Posted January 9, 2023 2 minutes ago, Larsongs said: If you’re following along you should’ve read, “I’m calling Martin to verify”…… I’m sure the person is gonna say no we do not, but if you insist. At least Martin answers the phone when you call. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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