Has anyone EVER had 3/64 action AND clean full step bends of the high E string at the 12-21's fret?

[CROWB8]

8 hours ago, sparquelito said:

You got my vote for "post of the day" sir.

[Sgt. Pepper]

If 3/36th is a spec on Gibson’s site and you can’t get there, call the big man in charge and demand the company he is in charge of pump out guitars to the spec they promise. 3/36th is so low. Every guitar is different, even 2 of the same model made one after another. 

 

[ksdaddy]

I spent years chasing low action. It's still desirable but I've found low action chokes the tone for some reason... not even a buzz necessarily, but just not a clear ringing note. Or maybe there's no headroom for when I get rambunctious. What was velvety smooth and nice five seconds ago is now a buzz fest if my Tortex digs in. Of course I spend most of my time on one of those skinny slabs from California, mainly a 1977 with a 7.5" radius.... so yeah, I've learned to have higher action.

[Pinch]

1 hour ago, ksdaddy said:

I spent years chasing low action. It's still desirable but I've found low action chokes the tone for some reason... not even a buzz necessarily, but just not a clear ringing note. Or maybe there's no headroom for when I get rambunctious. What was velvety smooth and nice five seconds ago is now a buzz fest if my Tortex digs in. Of course I spend most of my time on one of those skinny slabs from California, mainly a 1977 with a 7.5" radius.... so yeah, I've learned to have higher action.

I think if you want super low action, get an Ibanez or a Jackson or something. A Les Paul is a Les Paul. But hey. That's me.

Not trying to insult anyone, but I think you're (OP) overthinking this.

Edited July 2 by Pinch

[fortyearspickn]

17 hours ago, PrairieDog said:

And the corollary is posters taking offense and reading tone where none is intended.  Not sure how I “insulted” him.  

On the contrary, I understood exactly what he was asking.  In my answer, at least, I was merely observing the question is a bit pedantic.  

Look at it this way: He’s asking the equivalent of, “my car was rated to get x miles per gallon, but when I drive it I get different mileage, unless I drive it in a way I don’t like.  Has anyone ever been able to get what the sticker says they should, and still drive the car they way they want?”  The car sticker is based on wheels running on a treadmill inside a testing lab and means nothing to how we drive in the real world.  

Apparently what’s got him miffed is the range of answers observing folks here at least don’t seem to worry about the factory numbers.

I thought the answers he got were pretty good.  I suspect he thought he was going to get a chorus of agreement, not a bunch of folks saying they just work around what he finds to be an apparently unacceptable problem.  

Shrug, he knows his options.  

 

Yep.  For those interested in nuances - there's another thread - in The Lounge-  "The Roberts Sisters".  Newbies who asked for guidance,   which turned into a snark-fest, and then a discussion of the culture here - the tone some take to replying to new members.  One point made was a reminder that we were all 'new' to the guitar, this forum and even music at one point and got to where we are because of the helpfulness of others further along than we were at the time.  

Moderating a herd of cats  does not magically transform it into an orchestra:  especially if one cat wants to transform it into a free for all.     Questions about specs  bother some, questions about strings, others.  Questions about sponsorships, prices, changing variations in models.   Isn't the very reason for a 'forum' to address questions?  Not get upset with the newbies who bring them here ?  

 

[Dub-T-123]

This forum makes me feel so autistic. How is it with so many boomers, one who freakin worked for NASA, that not a single one of you can wrap your head around a basic fraction and imperial measurements

 

I don’t think anyone here has ever really worked a day in their life using a tape measure in America, if they did, apparently they’re a hack or they aren’t posting here

[fortyearspickn]

1 minute ago, Dub-T-123 said:

This forum makes me feel so autistic. How is it with so many boomers, one who freakin worked for NASA, that not a single one of you can wrap your head around a basic fraction and imperial measurements

 

I don’t think anyone here has ever really worked a day in their life using a tape measure in America, if they did, apparently they’re a hack or they aren’t posting here

       Yep.   Everyone knows   4/8ths is smaller than 6/16ths. 

[duane v]

6 minutes ago, Dub-T-123 said:

This forum makes me feel so autistic. How is it with so many boomers, one who freakin worked for NASA, that not a single one of you can wrap your head around a basic fraction and imperial measurements

 

I don’t think anyone here has ever really worked a day in their life using a tape measure in America, if they did, apparently they’re a hack or they aren’t posting here

I measured out my scale length for my recent guitar project using a soft ruler and the intonation is spot on. 

[badbluesplayer]

23 hours ago, rpavich said:

thanks for the laugh...that's what I ended up doing.

Yes.  I set up my Gibsons at 3/64" on the high e string and can easily do full step or 1-1/2 step bends.  Yes.  I can do it.  So what?  At about 3 and a half 64ths, you can bend notes to the moon.  But it doesn't sound as full at really low action.  I like it at about 3-1/2 64ths.

It involves using the proper fretting technique, too.

I'll go into court for Gibson and tell the judge all about it.  Is that what you're getting at?  You want somebody to blame for you not liking that playability at 3/64th action?  Gibson's fretboards are as good as anybody's.  Gibson executives may have appearance issues, and all the leather jackets and tight jeans may make you ask whether these guys can make stuff well, but, well, never mind that, lol.  They have normal people working there who make awesome guitars.  

Set it at 4 on the high e and 5 on the low e and you'll be fine.  Sneak the low e down until you like it.  If you can get it to 3-1/2 or so, that's pretty safe.

[duane v]

1 minute ago, badbluesplayer said:

Yes.  I set up my Gibsons at 3/64" on the high e string and can easily do full step or 1-1/2 step bends.  Yes.  I can do it.  So what?  At about 3 and a half 64ths, you can bend notes to the moon.  But it doesn't sound as full at really low action.  I like it at about 3-1/2 64ths.

It involves using the proper fretting technique, too.

I'll go into court for Gibson and tell the judge all about it.  Is that what you're getting at?  You want somebody to blame for you not liking that playability at 3/64th action?  Gibson's fretboards are as good as anybody's.  Gibson executives may have appearance issues, and all the leather jackets and tight jeans may make you ask whether these guys can make stuff well, but, well, never mind that, lol.  They have normal people working there who make awesome guitars.  

Set it at 4 on the high e and 5 on the low e and you'll be fine.  Sneak the low e down until you like it.  If you can get it to 3-1/2 or so, that's pretty safe.

I used to wear tight jeans and leather jackets in the 1980s... Me to your far right.

[Pinch]

19 minutes ago, Dub-T-123 said:

This forum makes me feel so autistic. How is it with so many boomers, one who freakin worked for NASA, that not a single one of you can wrap your head around a basic fraction and imperial measurements

FWIW, I'd never oiled a fretboard when I first joined this forum, and I had no idea there was a such a thing as a truss rod.

I get what the OP is saying, it's just that I've never had a problem bending strings there. I don't fiddle much with action, happy medium is good for me. If it's impossible to get clean bends with Gibson spec height, then I'm happy my LP was set up with - I suppose - not perfect Gibson spec height.

[duane v]

13 minutes ago, Pinch said:

FWIW, I'd never oiled a fretboard when I first joined this forum, and I had no idea there was a such a thing as a truss rod.

I get what the OP is saying, it's just that I've never had a problem bending strings there. I don't fiddle much with action, happy medium is good for me. If it's impossible to get clean bends with Gibson spec height, then I'm happy my LP was set up with - I suppose - not perfect Gibson spec height.

In all my years of playing and tinkering I have never measured my string height to verify action. I only measure the height of the strings at the first fret when I'm cutting a nut groove..... That's it.

[NighthawkChris]

Basic setup tools should include a capo, feeler gauges, set of Allen wrenches for truss rod adjustment (or that tool that used to come with Gibsons to turn the nut under the cover) and some way to measure 64ths - such as the StewMac tool I bought a few years back that resembles something of a business card that is intended to be used to measure things like action. 

To answer the OPs question you need a proper setup to Gibson’s specs using all the tools above if necessary and frets need to be level to get best results. I don’t have issues making full step bends on my guitars, but if I do, check the measurements for relief and action. YMMV, I know what works for me and I felt like sharing my input in this. 

I don’t do many 1.5 step bends often but I gather that I would be able to do so and not choke out. LPs aren’t perfect designed guitars, but they can be made to allow for bends. 

Also as @Pinch suggested, those other guitars have a “flatter” radius and can allow for lower action and crazier bends. Again setup and level frets go a long way to get more bending capability. 

Overall to answer question, yes, I can get bends that are at least a full step with no issue. I also play plugged in with some gain, so not sure if this compensates to some extent. 

[Pinch]

5 minutes ago, NighthawkChris said:

Basic setup tools should include a capo, feeler gauges, set of Allen wrenches for truss rod adjustment (or that tool that used to come with Gibsons to turn the nut under the cover) and some way to measure 64ths - such as the StewMac tool I bought a few years back that resembles something of a business card that is intended to be used to measure things like action. 

To answer the OPs question you need a proper setup to Gibson’s specs using all the tools above if necessary and frets need to be level to get best results. I don’t have issues making full step bends on my guitars, but if I do, check the measurements for relief and action. YMMV, I know what works for me and I felt like sharing my input in this. 

I don’t do many 1.5 step bends often but I gather that I would be able to do so and not choke out. LPs aren’t perfect designed guitars, but they can be made to allow for bends. 

Also as @Pinch suggested, those other guitars have a “flatter” radius and can allow for lower action and crazier bends. Again setup and level frets go a long way to get more bending capability. 

Overall to answer question, yes, I can get bends that are at least a full step with no issue. I also play plugged in with some gain, so not sure if this compensates to some extent. 

I didn't want to drag relief into it, because he's likely JUST the type who'd get just as fussy about that and then mess something up. How I can say that without disrespect, you ask? Easy. I'm like that myself. So I hear ya, OP. But please go easy on the relief or lack thereof.

Edited July 3 by Pinch

[Sgt. Pepper]

3 hours ago, fortyearspickn said:

Yep.  For those interested in nuances - there's another thread - in The Lounge-  "The Roberts Sisters".  Newbies who asked for guidance,   which turned into a snark-fest, and then a discussion of the culture here - the tone some take to replying to new members.  One point made was a reminder that we were all 'new' to the guitar, this forum and even music at one point and got to where we are because of the helpfulness of others further along than we were at the time.  

Moderating a herd of cats  does not magically transform it into an orchestra:  especially if one cat wants to transform it into a free for all.     Questions about specs  bother some, questions about strings, others.  Questions about sponsorships, prices, changing variations in models.   Isn't the very reason for a 'forum' to address questions?  Not get upset with the newbies who bring them here ?  

 

If the guy wants low action on his guitar then do something about it. Asking if it can be done and doing it two different things. Asking a bunch of mostly dudes has it been done cause Gibson says it’s their spec is one thing, achieving it with no fret out, or buzz is another. Everything affects the guitar. Heat, humidity, strings, picks, fingers, ears, amps, stomp boxes and on and on.

So get out your sand paper and start lowering your nut and file your nut slots. But there is more to it than that. Those pesky frets are too high. Gotta do something about that. How much relief you want. And there is still more.

Have fun achieving your goal.

Edited July 3 by Sgt. Pepper

[sparquelito]

This thread is like Gilligan's Island. 

Nobody understands how we got here, and nobody asks the question, "If we can make a radio out of coconuts, why can't we just fix the ****ing boat and sail on out of here?"

🫠
 

[Sheepdog1969]

1 hour ago, sparquelito said:

This thread is like Gilligan's Island. 

Nobody understands how we got here, and nobody asks the question, "If we can make a radio out of coconuts, why can't we just fix the ****ing boat and sail on out of here?"

🫠
 

Me thinks they liked the island. Me thinks the same applies here.

['Scales]

18 hours ago, fortyearspickn said:

Yep.  For those interested in nuances - there's another thread - in The Lounge-  "The Roberts Sisters".  Newbies who asked for guidance,   which turned into a snark-fest, and then a discussion of the culture here - the tone some take to replying to new members.  One point made was a reminder that we were all 'new' to the guitar, this forum and even music at one point and got to where we are because of the helpfulness of others further along than we were at the time.  

Moderating a herd of cats  does not magically transform it into an orchestra:  especially if one cat wants to transform it into a free for all.     Questions about specs  bother some, questions about strings, others.  Questions about sponsorships, prices, changing variations in models.   Isn't the very reason for a 'forum' to address questions?  Not get upset with the newbies who bring them here 

Well said. (Purple cup thing reaction added) 

[Pinch]

7 hours ago, Sheepdog1969 said:

Me thinks they liked the island. Me thinks the same applies here.

That's deep!

[ksdaddy]

I wouldn’t have left the island either. 
 

 

[fortyearspickn]

Which leads us to another question asked frequently here :    Ginger  or  Maryann ?   

[sparquelito]

31 minutes ago, fortyearspickn said:

Which leads us to another question asked frequently here :    Ginger  or  Maryann ?   

I have always been a Maryann fan, but since she has passed away, I'm left with the 90 year old Ginger now. 

🤔

 

Edited July 4 by sparquelito

[saturn]

I don't think I've ever measured my action. I actually don't like super low action. I don't want it high either. Like someone else said, too low and it seems to choke the notes.

But I will say that I found it pretty interesting when the OP brought up the "geometry" and even provided a visual to demonstrate how the radius can impede the string as it bends. I had never considered that before. 

[Sgt. Pepper]

On 7/3/2024 at 9:49 AM, duane v said:

I used to wear tight jeans and leather jackets in the 1980s... Me to your far right.

The woman looks like she stole her belt from a Scottish bagpiper.

The gloves really completes the look. 

Edited July 5 by Sgt. Pepper

[Sgt. Pepper]

13 hours ago, saturn said:

I don't think I've ever measured my action. I actually don't like super low action. I don't want it high either. Like someone else said, too low and it seems to choke the notes.

But I will say that I found it pretty interesting when the OP brought up the "geometry" and even provided a visual to demonstrate how the radius can impede the string as it bends. I had never considered that before. 

See we learn stuff here.