Sitting on the toilet playing guitar and singing

[nodehopper]

I have posted a few times about how I am trying to learn to play guitar and sing. Seems I can sing fair to middlin when singing along with original artist recording. But trying to make that jump to singing on my own with just the guitar as accompaniment and I lose some of the key pitch reference points and suddenly I am singing the wrong notes or sour bad notes.

 

I have tried plugging in and mic'ing up and practicing through headphones or with an amp facing me to monitor..... But still getting mixed results.

 

I have video taped myself and can really hear problems with my singing. I am starting to get discouraged, but the other night ( at the height of my frustration and about to completely give up) I grabbed my guitar and went into our bathroom. It has recently been tiled with a big tub/shower enclosure that is fake marble on all three sides. I sat down on the toilet because it faces directly into the very hard reflective surfaces of the tub enclosure......

 

Damned if it didn't help me to really hear myself. There seemed an immediacy to the reflected sound of my voice and guitar that I have never really felt and heard before. Suddenly because of the clarity of sound reflecting back to me I could "HEAR" myself and I felt my singing was improved by a lot.

 

I have only had a chance to try this once, but want to experiment more with this. I am going to see if this will help me get over this plateau I seem to be stuck on.....who knows maybe from now on I drag my video cam and recorder into the bathroom with me for my next attempt at a YouTube video....Or I will post a "how to" on converting a Bathroom into a Music Room.

 

Anyone know what the hell I am rambling on about here?

[onewilyfool]

Node what ever works....by the way, if you are going to the bathroom, mention Nodehopper's name....you will get a good seat...

 

I think it is a great post....that is why a lot of buskers play in subway stations....they get to hear themselves

[drathbun]

You might want to try the Gary Owens method of hearing your own voice too!

 

 

It really works!

[bkharmony]

My little 50s bathroom is lined with tile, so I play in there all the time. Love the natural reverb.

 

But, as far as singing goes... yeah, hearing yourself is quite important. If the bathroom is what helps you, go there (no pun.... OK, whatever...).

 

You might also try putting an earplug in just one ear. It helps. I used to do it often at gigs with lousy monitors.

 

Overall though, let me just say.... don't get discouraged, and dont expect everything to fall right into place. I know you said you're fairly new to this, and well, singing takes some time to learn, just like guitar. And doing both at the same time is another whole skill set. Once you learn what those sound waves feel like rippling through your head, you won't need to hear as much. Especially when you play in the same keys frequently.

 

Not everyone is a natural-born Richie Sambora!

[GibsonTruthSeeker]

Oh yeah, know exactly what you're talking about. And why do you think so many people sing in the shower? Bathrooms are a great place to sing! In my place the bathroom has great acoustics, and I have a big front room with hardly any furniture in it, and you can really hear yourself there. I set my sterei to the level where it's loud, but I can still hear myself singing. Les Paul was famous for taking his recording equipment with him, and recording himself and Mary Ford in rooms that he liked the acoustics in (and he was the master of acoustic nuance!).

 

As for singing great while playing guitar, yup, it can be a tough nut to crack. What I usually do is practice with the recording about a 100 times (seriously!), until I have singing along to the recording down cold. Then after I've learned whatever cover song I'm working on I make sure I can play it without thinking too much, then really focus on my singing.

 

I've never taken singing lessons (always wanted to!), but learned a few things along the way. Singing on key is tough... and that's the job of a singer, and the greatest challenge. When you're singing along to a recording, make sure you can hear yourself in order to stay on key. When you play guitar and sing, you definitely can hear yourself, and yes, not having the reference point makes it hard to stay on key.

 

Learn to sing from the diaphragm, not the throat. It really helps. Check out YouTube, there's all kinds of singing lessons there.

 

Get to know you're own vocal range. I just taught myself Colbie Callait's Fallin' For You, and there's no way I can sing as high as her. So I sing it way lower, but really try to project (another secret) as much as possible. Played it for some friends at a party recently and got a little round of applause.

 

And the biggest thing I've ever learned about singing, is that it is way easier to sing any song you've written than to try to do as good a job on a great song that your favorite band (or singer) has written. Something inspires a songwriter to compose a song, and that inspiration (and feeling!) shows when they sing it. That motivation propels singing... you can hone your singing skills by learning from the masters, but your voice will always shine with a song you've written.

 

Just keep putting it out there... and don't give up!

[KL]

A lot of musicians like the natural reverb of bathrooms and other rooms with hard surfaces. On our last album I recorded some mandolin in a long thin corridor at the studio with a stone floor and hard reflective walls. We also have recorded drums in a stone room with great effect.

 

Here's a picture from recording an Appalachian dulcimer!

 

http://viewmorepics.myspace.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=viewImage&friendID=266581199&albumID=189593&imageID=5544699

[Paul E]

I know what your saying. When I worked in the Fire Dept. we had a large tiled bathroom, myself and another guy who played harmonica use to jam in there , it was great, we called it the bathroom sessions.

[KL]

we called it the bathroom sessions.

 

Lol!! Great name.

[DonCarlos]

Doing two tasks at once, such as singing and playing the guitar just takes a bit of practice and determination, and no doubt you will accomplish that in time. Once you get it down, you will forget you had the problem to begin with.

 

The last time I tried to incorporate an added task while playing the guitar ended in a well remembered failure.

 

At the time I had been repeatedly watching an SRV tape for several weeks, trying to learn some things. One day, that inner brilliant light bulb came on, and I had a genius idea.

 

I decided why not kill two birds with one stone and decided to practice some SRV riffs, (while plugged in), and while walking on my treadmill.

Impending disaster some would think (except me.........just a brilliant idea, one of my best).

 

About 20 minutes into it, I fumbled my pick and instinctively turned to grab at it and was immediately flung off the treadmill. Brilliant idea, eh?

 

I still have a neck nick on the back of the strat. that reminds to not play the guitar while on things that are moving. Thank goodness I learned that before I started playing a J45 (the damage would have been less forgiving).

[milod]

It's a great point that pickin' and singin' are two different things.

 

Yeah, I played in the early mornings in the downtown laundromats when I was in college, etc., etc., etc. And yeah, the Gary Altman - the real name for this South Dakota boy <grin> as I recall - old time radio trick does help somewhat but...

 

Parenthetically, the regimental song for the 7th Cav under Geo. Custer was "Garryowen."

--- I've a tape of a lady singing it quite well, which would have been typical in 1875 or so. Custer's bandmaster was an Italian immigrant named Felix Vinatieri - NFL place kicker Adam's great grandfather.

 

Remembering words and getting musical phrasing and fingering chords and plucking/picking/strumming strings all at the same time are a bit much in ways.

 

I'd recommend - giggle if you will, just humming or using a kazoo.

 

Or to use the old-time jazz term, "scat singing." In the bathroom, that term might bring up an entirely different sort of image and metaphor, but what the heck. <chortle>

 

It's always difficult regardless of your degree of experience. I'm at the point where I can play some half fancy fingerpickin' stuff while I'm singing stuff I really do know how to play - but when I'm singing, I have a bad tendency to overdo the fancy guitar stuff because I've made it into muscle memory rather than into a "okay, when I'm singing, I'll back off on the guitar except for fills."

 

That's where recording yourself probably is among the last steps before getting into a public performance mode. You then realize what's going on with the guitar backing as well as the vocal phrasing that should have been figured out with humming or scat singing or kazoo while you've independently memorized and sung the words. <grin>

 

In fact, given the cost of recording stuff when I was a "kid," nobody did it until cassette recorders at $100 or less - the equivalent of maybe $6-800 today - hit the market to replace hauling around a big reel-to-reel rig.

 

m

[albertjohn]

Not tried the bathroom but I have experienced the differences in my perception of my voice.

 

I am far from a gifted singer and normally just crack on trying not to warry about the horrible sound coming from the PA. Of course, ehat you hear is different from what the audience hears but it's very hard for me to get over that"Blimey that sounds rubbish" moment.

 

I recently played in a small village church at a fund raising event. The acoustics were fantastic and I could hear the voice and guitar bouncing aff the walls etc. Even I sounded good. It was a great confidence boost.

 

However, I'm going to have a go at a vid soon so that will all change soon.

[Buc McMaster]

When I first started to sing I found that standing up to a wall (bathroom or otherwise) was a great way to hear myself and actually learn how to control the voice. It's much like having a vocal monitor.

 

Singing from the gut has been mentioned and is very necessary for generating smooth power - tightening your abdominals gives your chest cavity a solid base to push from. Start a line with your abdominals relaxed and tighten them mid-phrase to hear the difference. Another trick I learned is to form the words in the front of your mouth for clarity. Exaggerate the movement of your lips when you practise singing, forming the the words at the front of your mouth. In time, you will learn when to use this to full effect in performance...........it makes a big difference. And perhaps the most important thing is breathing. Learn to inhale through your mouth and nose at the same time. This fills your lungs more efficiently and quickly, allowing you to sing those long phrases and hang on to that last syllable if you need to. And learning when to take that breath is important to.......phrasing. Listen to Merle Haggard's phrasing.......he can be tough to imitate due to his unique vocal phrasing. And don't be afraid to experiment with your voice........remember Buddy Holly's famous "hiccup style"? Debbie Harry's squeaks in "Words"? This kind of innovation comes from exploring your voice and having fun with singing. Some of what comes out will sound silly and won't make it into your performance voice, but it will help you learn the possibilities and find unique things about your voice that make it yours.

[TommyK]

I've had that problem too. It usually manifests itself as my trying to mimmick a note which is part of the chord which goes with the melody, but the note is not the melody. I'm not sure why it is my ear picks out the wrong note... it just does.

 

I usually get the song down pat, then introduce the guitar accompaniment. It works better for me to jettison the pick and just strum bare fingered.

[nodehopper]

When I first started to sing I found that standing up to a wall (bathroom or otherwise) was a great way to hear myself and actually learn how to control the voice. It's much like having a vocal monitor.

 

Singing from the gut has been mentioned and is very necessary for generating smooth power - tightening your abdominals gives your chest cavity a solid base to push from. Start a line with your abdominals relaxed and tighten them mid-phrase to hear the difference. Another trick I learned is to form the words in the front of your mouth for clarity. Exaggerate the movement of your lips when you practise singing' date=' forming the the words at the front of your mouth. In time, you will learn when to use this to full effect in performance...........it makes a big difference. And perhaps the most important thing is breathing. Learn to inhale through your mouth [i']and[/i] nose at the same time. This fills your lungs more efficiently and quickly, allowing you to sing those long phrases and hang on to that last syllable if you need to. And learning when to take that breath is important to.......phrasing. Listen to Merle Haggard's phrasing.......he can be tough to imitate due to his unique vocal phrasing. And don't be afraid to experiment with your voice........remember Buddy Holly's famous "hiccup style"? Debbie Harry's squeaks in "Words"? This kind of innovation comes from exploring your voice and having fun with singing. Some of what comes out will sound silly and won't make it into your performance voice, but it will help you learn the possibilities and find unique things about your voice that make it yours.

 

 

 

 

 

 

Buc.....some very good and helpful points especially where you say not to be afraid to experiment with your voice. I would even go a step farther and say that in order to learn to sing you have to be willing to really sound bad. Once I gave myself permission to put it out there and sound really bad......my singing did improve dramatically. As you say "singing from the gut" ....I had to learn to just put it out there with some balls behind it. At first it was really bad and loud and terrible, but that is the process of learning to sing.

 

Like when you see a beginning guitar play who plays really really softly ...like they are afraid of the guitar or it will self destruct if mistakes are made. You gotta put it out there warts and all !!

 

One side benenfit to learning to sing that I hope will also improve even more over time is my ear. Recently, I had a friend over and he was cruising YouTube playing some of his favorite songs. I was sitting with my guitar and there were a few songs that he played off YouTube and I was able to quickly start playing along with them. He was pretty impressed and I tried to hide it but I was shocked myself .....I have never been able to figure out a song by ear before and I did it a couple of time nearly effortlessly.

 

So my ear is developing ...slowly but surely! I think learning to sing is what has improved my ear. Learning to sing ...well except for those few lucky / gifted individuals does take as much time, effort and practice as it does to learn to play guitar (maybe more). In all honesty I feel like I am very close to "getting it", but just looking for any help /advantage I can find to help the learning process.

 

"The Bathroom Sessions" ...I love it ..... would give a new meaning to the group name "Canned Heat" if they played on the toilet!

[onewilyfool]

Nodehopper, I think you should continue to practice in the bathroom, even if you feel your voice is sounding like crap, or you are singing so loud that your face is flushed, or you feel that your playing ability is going down the drain, or you feel like if you sold all your guitars right now, that you would take a real bath, or you get pissed off at your mistakes, or if you've had some close shaves almost hitting your guitars on the sink........I think you should get your feet wet, and keep at it. Even if your practice seems dry at times, keep plugging. I'm a big bathroom fan, and I think it would really help you. And, remember, have fun.

[nodehopper]

Nodehopper' date=' I think you should continue to practice in the bathroom, even if you feel your voice is sounding like crap, or you are singing so loud that your face is flushed, or you feel that your playing ability is going down the drain, or you feel like if you sold all your guitars right now, that you would take a real bath, or you get pissed off at your mistakes, or if you've had some close shaves almost hitting your guitars on the sink........I think you should get your feet wet, and keep at it. Even if your practice seems dry at times, keep plugging. I'm a big bathroom fan, and I think it would really help you. And, remember, have fun. [/quote']

 

 

OWF....absolutely ......

 

I am waaaay too pig headed damned stubborn of an S.O.B. to give up. I will get it regardless of if it is sooner or later.

[EADGBE]

This sounds boring compared to toilets and showers, but you can try singing to a stage mic connected to an audio interface card connected to your computer with logic, protools or whatever software connected to speakers. The latency (delay time that results from processing the sound) actually makes hearing your voice easier. Also, I've recently learned that playing and singing to a stage mic is an art that takes time to master, so it's good to have some practice.

[nodehopper]

This sounds boring compared to toilets and showers' date=' but you can try singing to a stage mic connected to an audio interface card connected to your computer with logic, protools or whatever software connected to speakers. The latency (delay time that results from processing the sound) actually makes hearing your voice easier. Also, I've recently learned that playing and singing to a stage mic is an art that takes time to master, so it's good to have some practice. [/quote']

 

 

EADGBE - Yes I have been using a mic into a mixer then out through my Acoustic Amp speaker and also with headphones plugged in. Both do allow you to hear yourself singing, but for some reason the very reflective acoustics in the bathroom seems to be giving me feedback that I can hear and is helping me. I am thinking because it is so much like singing with out anything other than my voice, but I can still hear myself instantly and I can correct myself instantly.

 

As you say ..microphone technique is definitely an important skill and is much harder to master than people think.

[milod]

Yeah, I've a friend who does the "walking, singing cowboy" thing with a headset mike.

 

I can't do it. I had "use the mike and your distance" pounded into my head since I was a kid, even by my Dad. He used it as a "public speaker," but the principle is the same.

 

m

[Jinder]

40 minutes ago, Jamesmhouse said:

 I did go through a phase of setting up my small practice amp in the bathroom and sitting on the  best flushing toilet and playing. 

The fact you bumped an eleven year old thread just to put up a link to a site advertising toilets has made my day...just when you thought things couldn't get any weirder 🤣

[CJB]

6 hours ago, Jinder said:

The fact you bumped an eleven year old thread just to put up a link to a site advertising toilets has made my day...just when you thought things couldn't get any weirder 🤣

I was thinking the same thing, then you said it.  This is the best part of my weekend.  🤣😄

[Sgt. Pepper]

This thread started in 2010.

[Boyd]

You know it's a bad weekend when spam about toilets makes your day. 

[kidblast]

This thread is going right down the tubes.. 😃

 

Edited January 11, 2021 by kidblast

[Sgt. Pepper]

On 1/11/2021 at 7:34 AM, kidblast said:

This thread is going right down the tubes.. 😃

 

We can sink lower. Here is proof.