pinch me!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[clarkuss]

I also found this:

 

[JefferySmith]

 

Perhaps it can be done. I'd like to think so. Maybe it depends upon how one defines "rich." Didn't a famous Irish playwright once say something about cynics' date=' the price of everything, and the value of nothing?

 

I liked your Leica story. I had no idea they were so valuable, although I know Leicas are superior cameras. I have an old Voightlander in amazing condition which belonged to my Dad. He bought it in the '50s when he first got into photography. Perhaps it's worth more than I thought (not that I'd ever sell it).[/quote']

 

Voigtlanders are to Leicas what Epiphones are to Gibsons. Do hang on to the Voigtlander. They are very nice cameras.

[matthewk]

I would have done exactly what I did when I found a guy selling a Linn Sondek LP12 turntable at a garage sale for $50. I told him "you could get a LOT more if you sold it on eBay, these are worth far more than $50." He listened, said it was his deceased uncle's gear, and he'd rather just sell it off. I went away to let him think about it, came back in half an hour, turntable still there, same price, I said "are you SURE?" and he said "yep, sure." So I bought it, cleaned it up and it sold on eBay for $1100. The guy knew what I knew, he accepted the terms, and I made a huge profit on it without a shred of guilt or defensiveness, and I still enjoy the story.

To basically take a vintage instrument from someone who'd looked after it for so long, in return for slightly reducing the amount of mark-up you were ALREADY making out of him for a set of windows ... well, that's not the way I would play it. You might feel like you "won" or came out in front of the other guy because you had more knowledge - to me that is a fairly cheap way to score points. If you can live with it, that's your business, but if you are going to brag about it, I have the right to comment.

Think about it - you still have the chance to make this right. If you go back to the guy and say it was worth more - you clear your conscience, chances are he will say "look, I don't mind, enjoy it" and will think highly of you for your honesty.

[bigneil]

i feckin' love stories like this......... this makes the guitar even more special. and when you give it to one of your kids/grand kids you will always have the story of how you came by an ace guitar! and they will tell thier kids.................

[Redddog]

and when you give it to one of your kids/grand kids .................

 

If some window salesman stops by when he's in his seventies, his grandkids won't be even seeing this guitar.

[HarpBoy]

i feckin' love stories like this......... this makes the guitar even more special. and when you give it to one of your kids/grand kids you will always have the story of how you came by an ace guitar! and they will tell thier kids.................

 

I agree with the horned one and AS90; I would have told the gent what he had. And I also would have used THAT as a story to teach my grandkids how important it is to treat others like you want them to treat you. Because that's the bottom line; turn the tables and ask how you'd feel if you'd been in the old fella's shoes but knew the backstory.

[Redddog]

OK, I'm gonna rant here a little.

 

Honestly, I can believe there are so many here who think this is awsome. I find this story to be a total condemnation of our society today. These types of stories are why we're in the mess we're in right now. Someone brought up the grand parent theme and I just want to echo that.

 

It's a question of moral and ethical decency.

 

Ask yourself one question. How would you feel if this was YOUR grandfather's guitar. Seriously. Ask yourself that. If you had any moral compass at all, you'd be furious.

 

This dude "jumped" at the chance and he did it because the poor old guy had no frickin idea what he had. If this guy decided that he knew it was a very expensive vintage guitar (worth 20 times what he offered) and he just wanted to basically give the thing to a stranger at the door who's bending him over for $20,000 windows, then forgive my rant. The old man must be a truly charitable soul who has not a single relative to leave this valuable inheritance to.

 

If that's what happened, then yes you are a lucky guy.

 

If on the other hand, you took advantage of an old fella and allowed him to think that you two just struck up and equitable deal and ran out of his house with a one of a kind vintage instrument that you basically just stole from him, I'm sorry to say bro, that is a scumbag move. I'm not being judgmental. Very few instances of morality and doing the right thing have grey areas. It's either right or wrong.

 

Again, if some insurance salesman just walked out of the house with your Grampa's like new, one of a kind, John Lenon masterpiece for less than half the price of a made-in-china, mass-produced knock off, you'd be either speechless or murderous. I know I'd be.

 

But in the end, you do what you can live with. And if you can sleep at night, than that's all that matters, I guess.

 

I'll tell you one thing you just blew your shot at the Nobel Peace Prize.

 

Rant off

[Redddog]

And I wonder what the window place you work for would have to say when they find out that you knocked 3 bones off the price so that you could pick yourself up a guitar.

[SlagJones]

My whole point is that nobody really knows the real intent of all parties involved and for people to immediately jump all over this guy's case is also a question of moral and ethical decency.

 

If the guy really was as nefarious in his intent and actions as some believe. Then yes, I agree, scumbag. Are there other possibilities? Yes, definitely. Unless, you know for sure what happened and why, I think you should back off rather than cast that first stone. My only point in all this.

 

I for one wouldn't have known how much the guitar was worth. Not much of a Beatles fan and not that knowledgeable about vintage guitars either. Maybe I would have asked the old guy, are you sure? These old guitars might be worth something. I don't know, I wasn't there but I wish I had the chance.

[midiman56]

Okay … so far in this outlandishly long thread we’ve heard:

 

1. Blatant jealousy.

2. Moral pontificating and high-handedness.

3. The bashing of people who are employed as salesmen as cheats and liars.

4. The assumption that all elderly people are feeble-minded and potential victims.

5.The basic condemnation of the OP as being of low character.

 

Wow … clearly a few lessons to be learned here:

 

1. If you ever get an amazing deal on an instrument … SHUT UP about it or suffer all of the Monday morning preaching and “shame-on-you” posts.

 

OR …

 

2. Claim you paid twice as much as the thing is worth … consequently allowing a lot of people to feel equally good about themselves as they chastise you for being the one ripped off.

[Redddog]

My whole point is that nobody really knows the real intent of all parties involved and for people to immediately jump all over this guy's case is also a question of moral and ethical decency.

 

If the guy really was as nefarious in his intent and actions as some believe. Then yes' date=' I agree, scumbag. Are there other possibilities? Yes, definitely. Unless, you know for sure what happened and why, I think you should back off rather than cast that first stone. My only point in all this.

 

I for one wouldn't have known how much the guitar was worth. Not much of a Beatles fan and not that knowledgeable about vintage guitars either. Maybe I would have asked the old guy, are you sure? These old guitars might be worth something. I don't know, I wasn't there but I wish I had the chance.[/quote']

 

Well put.

 

It's not my place to force my own morality on anyone here. Just thought it should be said. These 2 guys made the deal. And in business, there is usually a winner and a loser. Tom definitely won. That's all I'm sayin. But to say that this is a deal that anyone would have made if no one was looking? Uh...no. The very first thing I would have said was "Gramps. You know how much this thing could be worth?" There's no question.

 

Tom did what he thought was cool. Not my place to make him feel like sh!t about it.

[Lord Summerisle]

OK' date=' I'm gonna rant here a little.

 

Honestly, I can believe there are so many here who think this is awsome. I find this story to be a total condemnation of our society today. These types of stories are why we're in the mess we're in right now. Someone brought up the grand parent theme and I just want to echo that.

 

It's a question of moral and ethical decency.

 

Ask yourself one question. How would you feel if this was YOUR grandfather's guitar. Seriously. Ask yourself that. If you had any moral compass at all, you'd be furious.

 

This dude "jumped" at the chance and he did it because the poor old guy had no frickin idea what he had. If this guy decided that he knew it was a very expensive vintage guitar (worth 20 times what he offered) and he just wanted to basically give the thing to a stranger at the door who's bending him over for $20,000 windows, then forgive my rant. The old man must be a truly charitable soul who has not a single relative to leave this valuable inheritance to.

 

If that's what happened, then yes you are a lucky guy.

 

If on the other hand, you took advantage of an old fella and allowed him to think that you two just struck up and equitable deal and ran out of his house with a one of a kind vintage instrument that you basically just stole from him, I'm sorry to say bro, that is a scumbag move. I'm not being judgmental. Very few instances of morality and doing the right thing have grey areas. It's either right or wrong.

 

Again, if some insurance salesman just walked out of the house with your Grampa's like new, one of a kind, John Lenon masterpiece for less than half the price of a made-in-china, mass-produced knock off, you'd be either speechless or murderous. I know I'd be.

 

But in the end, you do what you can live with. And if you can sleep at night, than that's all that matters, I guess.

 

I'll tell you one thing you just blew your shot at the Nobel Peace Prize.

 

Rant off

[/quote']

 

Someone has the cojones to tell it like it is, without tiptoeing around the issue.

[HarpBoy]

Okay … so far in this outlandishly long thread we’ve heard:

 

1. Blatant jealousy.

2. Moral pontificating and high-handedness.

3. The bashing of people who are employed as salesmen as cheats and liars.

4. The assumption that all elderly people are feeble-minded and potential victims.

5.The basic condemnation of the OP as being of low character.

 

Wow … clearly a few lessons to be learned here:

 

 

<snip>

 

I actually found this thread quite enlightening. And I think it is good to table the different opinions. Material stuff and our hunger for it almost never brings out the best in our species. Witness people being trampled to death on Black Friday. What I missed in your summary was an acknowledgement that there were also some good points made. I also think your "lessons learned" came across as somewhat cynical. There are other lessons to be learned I think as well, one of the chief being, treat people well and allow them the opportunity to reciprocate. Humanity prevails then, me thinks. Who knows how the gentlemen would have responded had the OP suggested that his guitar might, in fact, be worth several thousand dollars. But then the choice would have been his, at least to thank the OP for his kindness. The exchange as it happened was not one based on mutual consideration; it resulted in a winner and a loser.

[clarkuss]

With a bit of my tongue in my cheek I would definitely prefer a 60s casino than the noble peace prize...

[duane v]

Ask yourself one question. How would you feel if this was YOUR grandfather's guitar. Seriously. Ask yourself that. If you had any moral compass at all' date=' you'd be furious.

 

[/quote']

 

Well I think one would have to ask themselves this, if my grandfather knew I was a guitar player, but failed or refused to tell me he had a vintage guitar. My guess would be your grandfather didnt think highly enough of you to have it. Or as a grand kid you just aren't close to your grandfather, and you don't play a guitar..... so what the hell does it matter.

[HarpBoy]

With a bit of my tongue in my cheek I would definitely prefer a 60s casino than the noble peace prize...

 

 

Rascal. Clever rascal.

[Redddog]

With a bit of my tongue in my cheek I would definitely prefer a 60s casino than the noble peace prize...

 

 

Absolutely. Now more importantly, WHO is that in your avatar? That may be the finest picture I have ever seen, Clarkuss.

[sledge57]

 

Absolutely. Now more importantly' date=' WHO is that in your avatar? That may be the finest picture I have ever seen, Clarkuss. [/quote']

 

Well it looks like Betty Page, but I've never seen that one before and I have seen tons of Bettys pics

[EL-KABONG!]

It is amazing to me how many people can pencil themselves into this guy's situation and SAY that they would do 'right' by the old feller.

 

Either this site defies all my life experience with the ethics of an average cross-section of our greedy *** society -

 

or

 

Some of you f'ers are just pissed it wasn't you and have to take it out on Motown.

 

If both are smilin' who's to judge?

That old codge will be warm and dry and have a great view...and Motown can KOTJ

[Thermionik]

Good post MIDIMan56 - I go with option #1 - Blatant jealousy.

 

Although I wish we could spell it without the lousy part at the end.....

 

Good post MIDIMan56 - I go with option #1 - Blatant Jell-O.

[Berserker]

And I wonder what the window place you work for would have to say when they find out that you knocked 3 bones off the price so that you could pick yourself up a guitar.

 

i was wondering that' date=' I'm sure the window company was reimbursed...

[JefferySmith]

 

Well it looks like Betty Page' date=' but I've never seen that one before and I have seen tons of Bettys pics [img']http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v125/Sledge_57/Smilies/devil.gif[/img]

 

I guessed Betty Page too.

[clarkuss]

Seems to be a mock up with a lookalike but it might have to be replaced by the looks of the announcement in the lounge!

[Redddog]

It is amazing to me how many people can pencil themselves into this guy's situation and SAY that they would do 'right' by the old feller....

 

or

 

Some of you f'ers are just pissed it wasn't you and have to take it out on Motown.

 

If both are smilin' who's to judge?

That old codge will be warm and dry and have a great view...and Motown can KOTJ

 

BS.

 

I'm not going to say much more on this because it's really gotten to the point where we're just banging heads but...

 

To say that the people here who are taking the high road are just jealous? Or that ANYONE here would have done the same thing is your way of saying that YOU would have done the same thing. You guys would and that's fine. I'm not judging anyone. Like I said, if you can sleep at night, then you're fine. But There is right and wrong. And that is true whether or not each party was fully informed.

 

To all you that cheer this transaction and insist that anyof of us would have done the same thing (and that we're just jealous), you still haven't answered 2 questions:

 

1. How would you feel if it was your Grandfather would gave some stranger a perfect vintage guitar for essentially free?

 

and

 

2. Do you believe that the geezer would have made that deal if he knew the value of that guitar? Was the deal equitable?

 

This is an easy way to cut through the BS. There are plenty of you guys (obviously, given the tone of Tom's proponents) who disagree, but it's because you would have done the same thing. You have the same standards. But to laugh off my opinion as BS or jealousy, that's just a stupid justification.

 

And for the record, I am jealous as hell that Tom has a guitar like that in his possession. That doesn't mean I am willing to go knock off the old dude down the street to get one.

 

Like I said, I don't want to ramble on like I'm some moral compass that demands high ethical behavior from everyone in the world. I'm just saying that this is a deal taht I wouldn't have made.

[clarkuss]

"But There is right and wrong."

 

This is a social convention and not an objective truth. The line about whether it was my grandfather is largely irrelevant because we'd all assume we'd know about the guitar and the hypothetical situations are too numerous to contemplate. If for instance my grandfather gave away a $3000 camera or record or turntable and we later found out what it was worth - sure we'd all be kicking ourselves but that's just bad luck. One man's junk is another man's treasure. When you find a bagain in a second hand shop you don't take it up to the counter and offer to pay the catalogue price.

 

I admit if the old guy didn't know its true value then its certainly a shame but he hasn't lost any money.

 

We've a bit of a mountain out of a mole hill. Guitars are not about money, they're about intrinsic and aesthetic value and built for playing. The fact that somebody now has a dream guitar that will be loved looked after and played is more credit to the instrument than it being sold at its market value and very likely going into a large collection where it will hardly be played and destined to an inflated resale value eventually or stuck in a shop that will equally only be happy to make a huge profit.

 

Guitars are overrated when they are seen as assets and not instruments.

 

I own guitars that cost me £300 that I wouldn't part with for £1000 and there are plenty of guitars out there that sell for thousands that aren't worth £100 in terms of playability.

 

The old guy clearly wasn't in desperate need for money or he would have looked into it a long time ago. A great find and a great bit of luck. Less of the Kantian ethics... i'm sure he'll get his justice in "the next life"