saturn Posted October 30, 2010 Share Posted October 30, 2010 OK..I'm usually not one to bring my drama onto this site, but I'm just curious of how other people see things. Remember, I'm not talking about full-time professional bands. Just local/weekend stuff. If you are playing in a band or just jamming with a group of people, would you get insulted or angry if they occasionally used another player instead of you? In other words, do you think you are the only (pick your instrument) player and no one else should fill-in or play in your spot? Personally, I feel that the group can play with whoever they want, even if it means leaving me out occasionally. If my feelings are hurt, well that's my problem but the band isn't obligated to play with me on guitar and only me. In one of my bands, we have a drummer (who isn't even very good) that got all pissy because we used another guy to fill in for him. And then announced he isn't going to be a "revolving drummer". OK..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
duane v Posted October 30, 2010 Share Posted October 30, 2010 Well if the other drummer is playing on his equipment, then I can understand him or her being a bit perturbed. If I may, why is there a need for two different drummers??? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
saturn Posted October 30, 2010 Author Share Posted October 30, 2010 Well, most of us all know each other for many years through work etc. I've played with the fill-in for many years in other bands and we called him to come jam with us in this band just because we're all friends and we thought "the more the merrier". But I guess this other drummer is territorial. But the fact is he just isn't that great either. He's OK to jam in the basement with, but playing out in a real gig he's sub-par, plus he drinks way too much. Long story short, tonight will be the last gig with the original drummer (he just doesn't know it yet) My buddy, the fill-in will become the regular drummer for this band too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cookieman15061 Posted October 30, 2010 Share Posted October 30, 2010 When the last band I was in decided to call it quits there were a few times when the others got together and played in different configurations without asking me. I have to admit I was a bit hurt as we had all been close and played in bands together since the late 70s. Although they never used a guitarist for the one offs, just drums, keyboards and bass I would have loved to have played with them again. What I'm saying is it's only natural that his ego might be bruised a little. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MrNylon Posted October 30, 2010 Share Posted October 30, 2010 If it's an informal jamming, and everyone is using their own equipment, no problem. I draw the line though when it may come down to using someone else's equipment. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
swampash Posted October 30, 2010 Share Posted October 30, 2010 If you have established "The Band" and all of its members, then that is the lineup. If someone knows that they are a member of said band, then I think that it's bad form to have someone who is not a band member perform their parts. I can't imagine that the edge walked into band practice one day to find someone there in his place. A band is a tight knitted group of musicians who, through practice, learn to play together. It does not have a revolving door policy, otherwise it becomes a group of guys jamming, with no unity. The only exception in my book is if a member of the band becomes a problem by not showing up for practice regulary or if a key member cannot make a gig and a temporary replacement is found. I do not understand why you are using a second drummer, i just don't get it. Isn't one enough? If you don't like the existing drummer, then fire him but don't disrespect him by using the 2nd drummer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
46 and 2 Posted October 30, 2010 Share Posted October 30, 2010 I have written 80% of the original stuff my band plays (music and lyrics) so even though I offered the songs to “the band” deep down I kinda feel like they are my songs so I would be pretty cranked if they had someone fill in for me playing my songs. Swampash makes a good point in that it depends what constitutes the band anyway. In my case, once the four people were in place we had a sit down and said “ok now the four of us are this band” so we laid the ground rules ahead of time. In a solid band I think it would be bad form to play gigs with replacements, but in a liquid and loose situation it might not matter. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TommyK Posted October 31, 2010 Share Posted October 31, 2010 If by 'filling in', you mean the original drummer was unable to come and you called another drummer buddy, then yes, the original drummer is out of line. If by 'filling in', you had his drums moved to the side and the new drummer in place when the original drummer arrived for the usual weekly jam, then yes, he has a right to be a little pissy. Probably best to segue into a new drummer, or whatever instrument, by telling the band you have a buddy who plays drums and would like to sit in with us next week and play a couple numbers. If you have an inkling of eventually playing out in bars, then that is another story. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MrNylon Posted October 31, 2010 Share Posted October 31, 2010 I never understood the two drummer bit either. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
saturn Posted October 31, 2010 Author Share Posted October 31, 2010 Well, I guess it's hard to fully explain the dynamics of a certain band in the limited space of a Forum topic, but this particular band is very informal. It just started as a group of old friends getting together to drink some beer and make some noise in the basement or at cookouts. There never was really a set line-up or anything. we didn't really consider at first that we might start playing real gigs sometime. It didn't seem like a problem between a bunch of buddies to have 2 people sharing and taking turns playing drums. The better of the 2 drummers didn't mind taking turns and playing nice. Maybe the other guy is threatened because he knows he's not nearly as good a drummer . Well, it won't matter any more because last night was the last gig with him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tman Posted October 31, 2010 Share Posted October 31, 2010 Well, I guess it's hard to fully explain the dynamics of a certain band in the limited space of a Forum topic, but this particular band is very informal. It just started as a group of old friends getting together to drink some beer and make some noise in the basement or at cookouts. There never was really a set line-up or anything. we didn't really consider at first that we might start playing real gigs sometime. It didn't seem like a problem between a bunch of buddies to have 2 people sharing and taking turns playing drums. The better of the 2 drummers didn't mind taking turns and playing nice. Maybe the other guy is threatened because he knows he's not nearly as good a drummer . Well, it won't matter any more because last night was the last gig with him. To me it's kinda like dating. I had my feelings hurt a few times when I thought we had a regular "gig" to find out that it wasn't what I thought. Sounds to me on this limited exposure by forum that you guys would rather be playing with drummer number 2. I would have been pissy too if I was number 1. Just be honest with him, it'll make him a better person and a better drummer too. my 2 cents Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sparky scott 29 Posted October 31, 2010 Share Posted October 31, 2010 It's the start of a break up in my opinion.. That's the way I see bands in the past start of just before the ending... Just saying, might not be the case at all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Notes_Norton Posted October 31, 2010 Share Posted October 31, 2010 If I'm in a band, unless the band was established to have rotating players when it was formed, I would object to being replaced for a gig. A band is a band, and they should be stable (BTW, in all the years I've been playing, I've never had this happen to me - and if it ever did - I'd immediately look for another band to join). If it's an informal jam band, it wouldn't matter. If it's a club date gig, I would expect the players to "rotate" Being in a formal band, is like being married (without the obvious marital benefit) and I expect all the players to stay the same unless one is permanently fired or quit ... I expect all the players to have everything memorized ... and I expect the players to show up and play the gig even if they are sick. (I played in a band where the bass player checked himself out of the hospital for a gig, and checked himself back in after the gig). Insights and incites by Notes ♫ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NeoConMan Posted October 31, 2010 Share Posted October 31, 2010 Yeah, I think informal hanging out is one thing. Drink beer, shoot the breeze, jam a little... I would look at it like this - drummer gets pissed and leaves, can you play without him? Gonna sound like crap, but if you're just jamming anyhow you can still do it. Is there an audience, or group of people who came with the expectation you WOULD be playing? If not, whatever... When there is an expectation for a band member to be there for a gig you have committed to, then that's a contractual thing even if it's only verbal. People are EXPECTING you to play? You gotta have a drummer. If one guy comes to find out he's not playing - and HE committed to being there - that sucks. He doesn't have to be a diva about it, but I'm with Notes. If he doesn't take your phone calls the next day, would you really wonder why? I guess my opinion depends on the nature of the obligation. Is the jam band now an actual band with people expecting you to perform? Gotta take the steps to communicate with everybody what is expected of them. Can't do it? Can't stay. So begins the hurt feelings and derailed friendships... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
milod Posted November 1, 2010 Share Posted November 1, 2010 Maybe I'm oversimplifying things but I think a bit of courtesy and integrity go a long way whether you're a bunch of old friends playing music together or if you're trying to get some gigs going regardless of the players. Yeah, there will be some hurt feelings regardless, but I think long-term courtesy and honesty result in the least "harm." That goes two ways, by the way. I've started playing with some folks and frankly it got to where I didn't have the time due to the day job to keep going. I told 'em. Nobody was particularly happy about the situation, but what if I'd just stopped showing up for practice or worse, for gigs? No way. m Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Silenced Fred Posted November 1, 2010 Share Posted November 1, 2010 Well, I had a friend who asked if he could play guitar in my band. He's a great player and a good friend so I said sure. Well, after barely having one practice (where we met up for an hour or so and just jammed) I call him up for another one, then he *****es me out for trying to run the band like a business. One thing has to be clear: Are you running this band to just have a good time jamming with friends, or do you want to get gigs? If its the former, then keep the current drummer. If its the latter, let him know he's a good friend, but explain to him about the need for a good drummer if he sucks. It's hard, but it is what needs to be done. I know I sound like a ****, but if those are your options, choose accordingly Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
milod Posted November 1, 2010 Share Posted November 1, 2010 Nathan... As I said... courtesy and integrity go a long way toward long-term peace within yourself and probably with a better reputation among those who know you - even if you're occasionally a loose cannon as I tend to be. m Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Silenced Fred Posted November 1, 2010 Share Posted November 1, 2010 Nathan... As I said... courtesy and integrity go a long way toward long-term peace within yourself and probably with a better reputation among those who know you - even if you're occasionally a loose cannon as I tend to be. m Yeah, my option might seem rude, but its better to be up front about stuff like this. It only gets worse over time Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
milod Posted November 1, 2010 Share Posted November 1, 2010 Honesty need not be rude. Blunt perhaps on occasion, but not necessarily rude. In 40 years you may find that the "blunt" was better if done with a degree of courtesy, and you may regain old friendships that drifted apart in situations such as you mention. m Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tim Plains Posted November 1, 2010 Share Posted November 1, 2010 I'd take offense. It's like some dude banging your wife when you're not around. I don't see a problem if you bring in an additional person from time to time but do see why he'd get upset by being replaced. I sometimes jam with my buddy's band. They're a 3-piece and I'm an occastional second guitarist (when they have beer ). I'm sure my friend, their guitarist, would be pissed if the other two guys started including me and excluding him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NeoConMan Posted November 1, 2010 Share Posted November 1, 2010 I sometimes jam with my buddy's band. They're a 3-piece and I'm an occastional second guitarist (when they have beer ). I'm in the exact same position. I sat in with them when I had time, and I have a standing invitation when schedules allow. I'm sure my friend, their guitarist, would be pissed if the other two guys started including me and excluding him. No way that would ever happen with me - I'm nowhere near the player he is . . . When I joined them onstage, the only thing that changed was the set list. Two guitars allows for some songs to work much better. As I've said many times, I'm very content to play rhythm parts and just lay down the riffs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
retrosurfer1959 Posted November 1, 2010 Share Posted November 1, 2010 Sounds like he had every right right to be paranoid since you have now given him the axe. And in all honesty your really weren't just messing around jamming it sounds like you invited a buddy in to audition and take his slot - so yep most people might be pissed, but if he's a drunk and a mediocre drummer that doesn't take it seriously sounds like his loss and your gain. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FirstMeasure Posted November 1, 2010 Share Posted November 1, 2010 If a persons influence on the project is negative, then I have no problem with replacing that person. If Someone can't make it to a Gig, then a temporary replacement becomes necessarily. Hurt feelings and marital metaphor aside, there is an obligation to the venue. Either a replacement player, or a replacement Band. Trust me, the Venue would rather you deal with a new member. They'd rather not be bothered with a new band. Also, you better have a darn good reason you can't commit to the Gig. Some people (drummers mostly, it seems) sre control freaks. If they can't control the projects success, then they'll try to control it through a hindrance. I.E. "I'll show that guitar player he needs me by not being available for an important Gig." That sort of Negative Influence is given the chance to Shape up, or it's shipped out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
saturn Posted November 1, 2010 Author Share Posted November 1, 2010 Some very interesting responses and opinions. I must say I was a little surprised. But, like I said, I would have to type too many paragraphs to fully explain all the relationships in this band. It's obvious I haven't made our particular situation clear enough for everyone to understand. Bottom line, I guess I take music and myself less serously that many other people do. I would never presume that any band I'm in would never play without me. I would rather see someone fill-in for me if I couldn't make a gig or jam, than feel that everyone canceled it on my behalf. And I would never want to feel that a band is sticking with me if there was someone better or more suited to the band then me. It might hurt my feeling a little, but I'll get over it. It's only life. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bowdiddley Posted November 1, 2010 Share Posted November 1, 2010 I'd take offense. It's like some dude banging your wife when you're not around. I don't see a problem if you bring in an additional person from time to time but do see why he'd get upset by being replaced. I sometimes jam with my buddy's band. They're a 3-piece and I'm an occastional second guitarist (when they have beer ). I'm sure my friend, their guitarist, would be pissed if the other two guys started including me and excluding him. Whats wrong with that? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Archived
This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.