What IS a mod?

[heretic]

To all,

We all know that stock Epis can be improved. Wood is wood and CNC is CNC. Epiphone IS a Gibson company making legitimate versions of Gibson designs, but at a price point affordable to the masses. Most of us do not have either the tools or the skill to make those pieces of wood that will ultimately make a musical instrument. That being said, the things we can and have the ability to alter are the parts that AREN'T wood. Tuners, nuts, bridges, pots, switches, caps, etc.

Why is that called "modding"? Why would changing the diameter of a hole from metric to imperial measurements be a "mod"? Why would installing a Bigsby on a guitar be a "mod"?

I've been fortunate enough to build real "hotrods". Sixty year old cars with modern components. Those are "mods". Replacing a cheap metric pot or switch with a Switchcraft isn't a mod. It's a restoration.

I own a high-quality, Asian-made Gibson clone from the 70's. Gibson sued them and won. They have a forum as well. But some of the members are fanatical about the "purity" of the "golden age" of those guitars. The "correct" knobs or the lack thereof changes the value. I bought the Jap guitar because I could not afford a Gibson, but I knew that it was built with quality. Thirty years later it's a "collectable". Who knew.

I've made the EXACT same changes to that guitar as I have done to ALL of my Epis. And, I did them for the same reasons. That is, make them like REAL Gibsons.

In my mind, that's not a mod, that's a RESTORATION. How could making a guitar the way it was originally designed a "mod". Bigsbys on an LP? Original equipment. Four pickups... that's a MOD!

Making a less expensive guitar more like the original, whatever it takes, shouldn't de-value that guitar. It's HONORING the genius of their original designers:

Lester and Leo.

 

Discuss amongst yourselves...

 

--heretic

[Hungrycat]

1954 Gibson Les Paul Custom with staple P-90s and a Kahler. Now THAT would be a mod.

[heretic]

Hungry,

You are freakin' me out. While I was writing the post I was thinking about a Floyd Rose on any Les Paul. To me, that's just wrong. I know because I put one on a Strat clone I built back in the 80's. Same parts EVH used, except I went with a Schecter assembly with tapped single coils. It was a "teachable moment". I did a good job, but royally screwed up a decent guitar.

 

--heretic

[Steven Lister]

 

I've been fortunate enough to build real "hotrods". Sixty year old cars with modern components. Those are "mods". Replacing a cheap metric pot or switch with a Switchcraft isn't a mod. It's a restoration.

 

******

 

I own a high-quality, Asian-made Gibson clone from the 70's. ......... I've made the EXACT same changes to that guitar as I have done to ALL of my Epis. And, I did them for the same reasons. That is, make them like REAL Gibsons.

In my mind, that's not a mod, that's a RESTORATION. How could making a guitar the way it was originally designed a "mod". Bigsbys on an LP? Original equipment. Four pickups... that's a MOD!

Making a less expensive guitar more like the original, whatever it takes, shouldn't de-value that guitar. It's HONORING the genius of their original designers:

Lester and Leo.

 

Discuss amongst yourselves...

 

--heretic

Maybe your understanding of "mod"-ification and "restoration" are not accurate?

 

I know some folks who work with antique motor cars, you know the kind they sell at the Barrett-Jackson auction. These people are purests right down to the correct markings on bolts (yeah, what "normal" person would have thought there even was such a thing, right?). As explained to me, any swap of incorrect aftermarket parts -- even if the swapped parts are of superior quality to the original ones -- is a modification, and that "mod" reduces the car's value. Restoration then, requires usage of 100% original NOP (new-old product i.e. new parts from say Mercedes that were never before installed on a car) or OOP (old-old product) that has been cleaned/repainted etc. Usage of any different brand or type, even higher quality parts is a big no no to these guys.

 

If the term "mod" as it applies to guitars ( or other) was a carry-over from this purist crowd, then the answer lies within the above example. Or, to fit your case, they would tell you that putting a Switchcraft jack in place of the original crappy Korean one is a mod and your guitar is worth less (even though you made a qualitative improvement). Hey, go figure, huh?

 

Hit every BLUE NOTE baaaby..., I'm going to play on

[midiman56]

I have to agree with Steven on this one.

 

Restoration:

 

The act of restoring or bringing back to a former place, station, or condition; the fact of being restored; renewal; reestablishment; as, the restoration of friendship between enemies; the restoration of peace after war. [1913 Webster]

 

Therefore, restoring an Epiphone would mean removing any upgraded parts or components and replaceing them with original spec parts ... whether they are inferior or not.

 

Making an Epiphone more like its Gibson counterpart by upgrading components would be a MOD (or modification).

 

One of the cool things about Epi's is that you can go ahead and MOD away ... make it over in your own personal vision. Resale value is not really a consideration here ... playing and enjoying is!

 

Jim

[JayBeee]

Maybe I'm just a simple guy, but all this sounds like a bunch of semantic nonsense to me.

 

If you change anything (other than strings) on a guitar, you've modified it. Thus, it's a *mod.*

[bigneil]

I understand your point that by simply changing parts you are not modifying the actual wooden parts of the guitar that essentially make the guitar what it is, but you have to admit that changing out the hardware and electrics is not restoration either, I say that restoration means putting all the original Epi parts back on and making it look and play how it did when it left the epi factory! so what would be the optimum phrase for changing parts be? "making improvements", seems to fit the bill but, then again a person might not actually improve the guitar by doing so, and so this phrase becomes impotent too. So what are we left with "changing the electrics and hardware", I don't see it catching on somehow "I saw a great guitar the other day that looked like a good changing the electrics and hardware platform"

 

I think despite any clever semantics i will stick with "I saw a great guitar the other day that looked like a good mod' platform"

 

[RaSTuS]

I own a high-quality, Asian-made Gibson clone from the 70's. Gibson sued them and won. They have a forum as well. But some of the members are fanatical about the "purity" of the "golden age" of those guitars. The "correct" knobs or the lack thereof changes the value. I bought the Jap guitar because I could not afford a Gibson, but I knew that it was built with quality. Thirty years later it's a "collectable". Who knew.

Would that guitar your referring to be an Ibanez Custom Agent, if not what is it? Why be so secretive about it?

[brianh]

As explained to me, any swap of incorrect aftermarket parts -- even if the swapped parts are of superior quality to the original ones -- is a modification, and that "mod" reduces the car's value. Restoration then, requires usage of 100% original NOP (new-old product i.e. new parts from say Mercedes that were never before installed on a car) or OOP (old-old product) that has been cleaned/repainted etc. Usage of any different brand or type, even higher quality parts is a big no no to these guys.

I agree with this definition. If I was restoring a '52 goldtop LP, any non-NOS or (for the ultra-purist) non-OOS would be a mod and significantly decrease the value of the guitar on the collectable market.

 

The thing about new guitars, especially inexpensive Asian models is that they often need to be tweaked to be made reliable, "playable" or "more playable" as the case may be. Upgrading the tuners, putting on a new nut, jack, wiring, pots, pickups, etc. is tecnically a mod since you're not usually replacing them with working versions of the same type, but it really is a moot point because at current prices it has little if any effect and may even increase the value a little.

 

Another perhaps more proper term would be to call these minor mods "upgrades", and any significant change to the guitar body, such as routing for new pickups, adding a Bigsby or Floyd Rose, making a 12-string out of 6, or any other non-reversable change a "mod".

 

Just my .$0.02.

[heretic]

Steven,

 

You're right. My bad. Wrong word.

 

What I was trying to say is "going back to the original INTENT".

 

Parts is parts, and the bottom line is king. NOS, OOS parts were purchased at the lowest cost possible. I get that. Gibson paid pennies for the pots, switches, caps, knobs and wiring used in their electrics. Epiphone is doing the same. While the function hasn't changed, the quality has.

My intent was to put OEM parts in a modern guitar with the hope that I would recreate the mojo, and having succeeded (IMHO) enjoying a greatly improved playing experience. Kudos to Epiphone/Gibson for making affordable guitars, but with a little "old school flavor" in just the right places...as Chef Lagasse sez "BAM!!!"

 

RaSTus...it's a 1978 Model 2671 Randy Scruggs Professional. I've modded it too.

 

Nothing is sacred. That's why the call me...

 

Heretic. mwah hah Hah HAAHHHHHH

[RSDx]

... all this sounds like a bunch of semantic nonsense to me.

 

 

 

 

It is .....

[BigKahune]

What IS a mod?

... a RESTORATION.

 

First, as a couple other posters have said, when you're talking about guitars, a mod is any modification that deviates from the original factory parts, setup, shape and finish. A minor modification would be a change in hardware that doesn't require drilling or routing. A major modification would include any or all of the following: drilling, routing, reshaping, refinishing.

 

Second, a restoration is when you take a guitar that's been damaged or modified and return it to it's original factory parts, setup, shape and finish.

 

 

These terms might have different meanings in regards to other subjects - like modifying or restoring automobiles. But anyone who deals with vintage guitars knows the above definitions.

[AS90]

Who cares? Just play the damn thing.

[animalfarm]

THIS would be a RESTORATION... I'm guessing an EPI SG-310?

 

[Whitmore Willy]

THIS would be a RESTORATION... I'm guessing an EPI SG-310?

Are you sure?

Could it not be:

A. He is going for a "Road Worn" look?

B. Checking for a loose ground?

C. He has invented the Gibson fly swatter?

 

Willy

[heretic]

To all,

 

I need to refudiate myself. I misunderestimated the power of wordings and correctable usery of language and spellification. Allow me to illustratify.

 

conversion |kənˈvər zh ən|

noun

1 the act or an instance of converting or the process of being converted: the conversion from metric to imperial measurements.

 

I will never use the word RESTORATION again. I will never use the word RESTORATION again. I will never use the word RESTORATION again. I will never use the word RESTORATION again. I will never use the word RESTORATION again. I will never use the word RESTORATION again. I will never use the word RESTORATION again. I will never use the word RESTORATION again. I will never use the word RESTORATION again. I will never use the word RESTORATION again. I will never use the word RESTORATION again. Ad infinitum.

 

Hey...what can I say?. It's a medical condition.

 

Took me all weekend to dislodge my size 13 Chuck Taylors.

 

–– heretic

[BigKahune]

... Took me all weekend to dislodge my size 13 Chuck Taylors.

 

Now that's a restoration. B)

[Plymouth58]

Maybe I'm just a simple guy, but all this sounds like a bunch of semantic nonsense to me.

 

If you change anything (other than strings) on a guitar, you've modified it. Thus, it's a *mod.*

 

Exactly. And a restoration is replacing a part with the exact same one. As soon as you replace it with a different part, it's a modification imo, even replacing a black knob with a white one

[RobinTheHood]

THIS would be a RESTORATION... I'm guessing an EPI SG-310?

Its a Maestro. You can tell by the pickguard, unpainted neck, and if you look closely, the headstock shape (no cut corners). Also, there is no pickup in it for some reason...

 

I like the look on 'ol Henry's face. Someone needs to caption that!

[Sinner 13]

 

 

.

My intent was to put OEM parts in a modern guitar with the hope that I would recreate the mojo, and having succeeded (IMHO) enjoying a greatly improved playing experience. Kudos to Epiphone/Gibson for making affordable guitars, but with a little "old school flavor" in just the right places.

 

 

 

Nothing is sacred. That's why the call me...

 

Heretic. mwah hah Hah HAAHHHHHH

Got to go with the H man here.

I buy used Gibson/Epi just for that reason, I like to tinker.

I just built a heavily shielded 18ga. 4 wire harness, and put big boy caps(ODrops) in the 56 RI,

When I buy it's not the initial tone that I look for I look for playability acceptable, and comfortable to my style.

Tone can be built out in the guts later on.

 

 

 

[RobinTheHood]

I think it was a Maestro

 

or

 

which Epi has a bolt-on maple-neck ?

 

Ja, es ist ein Maestro.

 

The only current Epiphones with a maple neck as a standard feature are the EMs.

[animalfarm]

Don't want to detract from original thread, so I'm starting new topic

in Lounge based on Pic of Mssr. J smashing the SG....

 

Please continue....