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vincentw

By vincentw
in Gibson Acoustic

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dhanners623

dhanners623

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I'll take a somewhat contrarian view. All in all, the performance wasn't as hideous as some I've seen/heard over the years, but perhaps a big part of the problem is the song they are doing is just so iconic. We are accustomed to hearing it a particular way and that earlier performance is ingrained on our collective psyche. To us, the way Simon & Garfunkel did the song is THE WAY it should be done. And it isn't a song you hear covered very often, for just that reason.

 

So when somebody comes along and does a version of it, they have to bring something different to it, which Lanois apparently tried to do.

 

That said, his voice sucks, and not in a Johnny Cash/Townes Van Zandt/Gram Parsons kind of way. There was just no character to it. And I say that as someone who acknowledges that his voice sucks, but I try to give it a little character.

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vincentw

vincentw

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I'll take a somewhat contrarian view. All in all, the performance wasn't as hideous as some I've seen/heard over the years, but perhaps a big part of the problem is the song they are doing is just so iconic. We are accustomed to hearing it a particular way and that earlier performance is ingrained on our collective psyche. To us, the way Simon & Garfunkel did the song is THE WAY it should be done. And it isn't a song you hear covered very often, for just that reason.

 

So when somebody comes along and does a version of it, they have to bring something different to it, which Lanois apparently tried to do.

 

That said, his voice sucks, and not in a Johnny Cash/Townes Van Zandt/Gram Parsons kind of way. There were just no character to it. And I say that as someone who acknowledges that his voice sucks, but I try to give it a little character.

 

I understand what you are saying. Lanois did seem to have an idea of what he was trying to do, and I bet he could pull it off for the recorded version. Without hearing what he might have done on "tape" and hearing this live version for the first time is kind of shocking. I should also add that I am a HUGE Daniel Lanois fan. I have several of his solo records, not to mention being a dedicated fan of everything he produces. I went to his show here in nashville years ago, and I would pay to see him again. He is one of the best pedal steel players I have ever heard, and I have heard a lot. It just boggles my mind that someone with such a good producer's ear couldn't "hear" why this attempt was wrong on so many levels.

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J-1854Me

J-1854Me

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I don't mind his version of 'Sounds of Silence'; it's not as if all songs should always be produced and played with the same sound. Think of other songs with significantly different production and arrangements -- Bob Dylan's music, for example, was covered and recorded by numerous artists who certainly did different 'takes' on the songs.

 

I just think his hat looks goofy.....

 

Fred

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AnneS

AnneS

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That said, his voice sucks, and not in a Johnny Cash/Townes Van Zandt/Gram Parsons kind of way. There was just no character to it. And I say that as someone who acknowledges that his voice sucks, but I try to give it a little character.

A little off-topic, I know, but your comment made me think again how male singer/songwriters (and I'd have to add John Prine, Bob Dylan, Kris Kristofferson to your list) can get by (and do quite well as performing artists) with not-very-good-to-say-the-least voices but how there's not nearly the number of female singer/songwriters who have pulled it off.

 

Now, I don't think the reason is because female singer/songwriters don't have sucky voices; I just think they never get far enough for us to hear of them. It's like our ears can't tolerate weak, rough, off-key singing by a female voice in quite the same way we can overlook it--feel it as "character"--in a male's voice.

 

And btw, I don't see this as some wacky cultural sexist thing... I think it's more likely related to the physics of producing the sound--even a weak male voice has more "presence" than a weak female voice because of the longer vocal chords and larger cavities and breath capacities. A weak female voice is perhaps harder on the ears--or on the listening soul?-- than a weak male voice.

 

I dunno, but as a female singer/songwriter with a decidedly not-very-good-to-say-the-least voice, I still count on the "character" card, but I wish I had more female role models in this area.

 

And now back to our regularly-scheduled programming-- [tongue]

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dhanners623

dhanners623

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A little off-topic, I know, but your comment made me think again how male singer/songwriters (and I'd have to add John Prine, Bob Dylan, Kris Kristofferson to your list) can get by (and do quite well as performing artists) with not-very-good-to-say-the-least voices but how there's not nearly the number of female singer/songwriters who have pulled it off.

 

Now, I don't think the reason is because female singer/songwriters don't have sucky voices; I just think they never get far enough for us to hear of them. It's like our ears can't tolerate weak, rough, off-key singing by a female voice in quite the same way we can overlook it--feel it as "character"--in a male's voice.

 

And btw, I don't see this as some wacky cultural sexist thing... I think it's more likely related to the physics of producing the sound--even a weak male voice has more "presence" than a weak female voice because of the longer vocal chords and larger cavities and breath capacities. A weak female voice is perhaps harder on the ears--or on the listening soul?-- than a weak male voice.

 

I dunno, but as a female singer/songwriter with a decidedly not-very-good-to-say-the-least voice, I still count on the "character" card, but I wish I had more female role models in this area.

 

And now back to our regularly-scheduled programming-- [tongue]

 

I would have to concur with your observation. When I think of "bad" female vocalists ("bad" being a relative term here) the first that comes to mind is Lucinda Williams. Then maybe Carole King. But I can't think of any other voices singing songs like "Car Wheels on a Gravel Road" or "I Feel the Earth Move" or other tunes like that. Their voices have character, and I think that is more important than the classical qualities of range and timbre and singing on key. For whatever reason, maybe it is easier to make it as a male songwriter with a "lousy" voice (i.e., Van Zandt, Kristofferson, et al) than it is to make it as a female songwriter with a similarly "flawed" voice. I wouldn't doubt that sexism has something to do with it, but I'm no expert.

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j45nick

j45nick

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A good singer/songwriter is anyone who makes you want to listen to what he or she has to say. The first time I heard Dylan, back in 1963 (thanks to a very hip high school teacher), my response was "WTF?". Then I listened to the words as well as the voice. Same goes for Woodie, Jimmie Rodgers (the real one), and any number of country and blues singers that were before my time. Maybe we just got used to men with mediocre or unusual voices singing great songs.

 

Of course, Jimmie Rodgers' songwriting partner for most of his songs was his sister-in-law, Elsie McWilliamsm who is in Nashville's songwriters' hall of fame.

 

The flip side of this is male singer/songwriters who were paid scant attention in most circles until a woman with a beautiful voice recorded their work. How about Judy Collins singing Leonard Cohen's "Suzanne", for example? Leonard Cohen is a great writer, but few would claim he is a great singer, even of his own work. But Judy Blue Eyes still breaks my heart....

 

To some extent, even Dylan got a big boost when some "real" singers (Jim McGuinn, David Crosby, and Gene Clark) put a unique twist on "Mr. Tambourine Man", although to my ear, Dylan's own version is one of the sweetest and most melodic things he recorded in his early career.

 

I had never thought of it as a sexist thing, but AnneS may have a point there. Of course, there have been plenty of female singers whose fame comes not from their vocal quality, but the intensity and validity of their interpretations. We all know that Kris wrote "Me and Bobby McGee", but it was the interpretation by Janis Joplin that brought that song to life. No one would accuse JJ of having a great singing voice. (I'm waiting for the incoming bombs for that comment. I saw JJ live in 1969, and she was great. But it was her intensity and energy, not her voice as a singing voice.)

 

I was very, very lucky to have been intensely involved in music of this type in the '60s and early '70s, both as a listener and as a sound engineering professional (and amateur performer).

 

Come to think of it, maybe women just have better voices. I bet AnneS is a lot better singer than she claims. We know she's got a hell of an ear for guitars.

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Guth

Guth

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I read through almost all of the responses thus far before watching/listening to the clip. It wasn't nearly as horrific as I was imagining based on the comments shared here. It might not be quite to my taste (cheers to whoever it was on this forum that turned me on to that phrase), but I've got to give credit to anyone who is willing to put their music/art out there for others to digest. I have a much easier time writing about guitars that don't appeal to my ear than I do the work of musicians, as I myself struggle to get comfortable with making a simple recording of my own playing let alone get up and perform in front of others.

 

As far as the specific comments regarding vocals go, I must admit that I find a certain appeal in imperfections. I count artists such as Townes Van Zandt and Tom Waits (along with many others) amongst my favorites (Howling Wolf anyone?). Anne, as far as female artists go — I'd say one of my favorites, Lucinda Williams fits the bill for the category you've mentioned.

 

But I think you're right that it's a lot easier to think of males with "less than perfect" voices or personalities who have done well from the standpoint of success. Ironically, it is often the imperfections in life that hold the true appeal for me. While I never purchased any of her music, I remember when the singer Jewel first rose to popularity and my wife asked me if I found her to be attractive (what a loaded question). I told her yes and she asked what it was specifically that I found appealing — I told her that of all things, it was her crooked teeth. While I did feel that she had a fantastic voice and and was certainly attractive, it was those teeth really got me. In this age of plastic surgery, botox, liposuction, etc. something as simple as a twisted tooth really knocks my socks off. In general terms, for me, the same goes for music. I love seeing how an artist works with their own imperfections, that's what keeps things interesting.

 

If I had to jump on the pile with everyone else, I'd take the same approach as J-1854Me — he probably could have chosen a different hat.

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AnneS

AnneS

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Anne, as far as female artists go — I'd say one of my favorites, Lucinda Williams fits the bill for the category you've mentioned.

***

I love seeing how an artist works with their own imperfections, that's what keeps things interesting.

 

Yep, Lucinda is definitely at the top of my list of favorite singer/songwriters, male and female. And while her voice can be described as rough (JJ-esque, even?), I submit that it is not 'weak," as I've been using that term in this discussion. Saw her in concert for the first time just a couple of months ago--I was shocked by the power of her voice.

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3LzobiJfios&feature=related

 

As for an artist's imperfections- reminds me of the oft-repeated and very wise statement to the effect of "Our style is the product of our limitations."

 

Indeed!! [thumbup]

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