myspace.com/jessenoah Posted October 15, 2008 Share Posted October 15, 2008 time for you guys to be my shrink again.............. Anyway, my brother and I play bass and guitar @ our church. 2 weeks ago we had a problem with the new sound guy. I told him after our band practise that i needed to be turned up in the front monitors, so i could hear myself. He went on a temper tantrum out of nowhere, saying we are too loud and we our drowning out the background vocalists (one happens to be his wife) and telling me how i have no respect for authority and such. I figured he was just having a bad day. Anyway the next service I sucked it up and played and couldnt hear myself and just went about my way. but the next practise, i asked him again to turn me up, this time he made a scene in front of the whole band, and we had to stop practising while i explained to him how a band works, and what a sound techs responsibilities are, the whole time making sure that i didnt say anything that would offend him, yet for some reason, he couldnt communicate his point without yelling @ me, and making a fool of himself. Anyway here we are 2 weeks later, and my pastor has asked me to step down from the band for a few weeks, saying that my attitude isnt right and that i have no respect for the people in power.... Why is it that i have herd that on the online forums, now im hearing it @ church. When did it become acceptable for people in power to always be right, even when they are incorrect? When did churches become more worried about who is on their side, instead of who is there for the right reasons? When did it become politically incorrect to ask the questions that need to be asked? and finally............. When did it become so hard for people to admit when they are wrong? perhaps my judgement is so clouded, after all i am a baseball umpire, i have to be on my best bahavior, i have to be on my A-game all the time, i have to be perfect, and i have to carry myself to a higher standard regaurdless of how people treat me. Im afraid that now im just letting people walk over me........ DAMN IT this sucks Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
:oilpit: Posted October 15, 2008 Share Posted October 15, 2008 Did you try and explain yourself to your pastor? If you didn't, do. If you did and he still asked you to take a break from the band, just be the bigger man and appologize, say you will think about it and try and be more level headed in the future. As for the sound guy, try and talk to one of his superiors or the rest of the band and see if they can help you. Good luck. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
myspace.com/jessenoah Posted October 15, 2008 Author Share Posted October 15, 2008 i did explain myself to the pastor, i explained how we havent been able to communicate because he isnt willing to.... the problem is the pastor is on his side because he donates more money to the church then i do its some school yard, highschool BS i am the one who is acting mature, i am the one who is being disrespected, yet i am the one who is in trouble:-s Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KennyF Posted October 15, 2008 Share Posted October 15, 2008 Perhaps it's not so much what you are saying, but the way you are saying it. Sometimes, if a person has a preconceived notion about you, then they might be looking for confirmation of that in everything you do, and every word you say. Without knowing you, it's difficult to say. At least you're acknowledging that it might be you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NeoConMan Posted October 15, 2008 Share Posted October 15, 2008 My wife sang in her church for 20 years before we met. She did sound a couple times, then swore she would never do it again. She stopped singing when we were dating, and never went back after we got married like I thought she would. I played guitar with them a couple times, decided it was not for me, so we both left the team. The same thing you described is common, it's a shame church people don't always act like "church" people. The guy you mention is a prick, no matter where he is, the pastor has a bigger picture to deal with, and even if you're right he feels it's best to piss on your shoes. I never understood what motivates sound and lighting guys, beyond the initial novelty of doing something cool. To think they can yell and such, well, I say fxck 'em. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gearbasher Posted October 15, 2008 Share Posted October 15, 2008 When did it become acceptable for people in power to always be right' date=' even when they are incorrect? When did churches become more worried about who is on their side, instead of who is there for the right reasons? When did it become politically incorrect to ask the questions that need to be asked? and finally............. When did it become so hard for people to admit when they are wrong? [/quote'] Since the beginning of time. its some school yard' date=' highschool BS[/quote'] Life is high school. Only on a bigger scale. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
daveinspain Posted October 15, 2008 Share Posted October 15, 2008 Do you know where the sound guy lives or parks his car?? Just kidding Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thermionik Posted October 15, 2008 Share Posted October 15, 2008 When did it become acceptable for people in power to always be right, even when they are incorrect? When did churches become more worried about who is on their side, instead of who is there for the right reasons? When did it become politically incorrect to ask the questions that need to be asked? When did it become so hard for people to admit when they are wrong? gearbasher got it almost spot on..... .....since before the beginning, 'twas ever thus. I was a mean old man I was an ornery cuss I was a dismal Dan I made an awful fuss Ever since my life began Man, it was ever thus Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flight959 Posted October 15, 2008 Share Posted October 15, 2008 time for you guys to be my shrink again.............. Anyway' date=' my brother and I play bass and guitar @ our church. 2 weeks ago we had a problem with the new sound guy. I told him after our band practise that i needed to be turned up in the front monitors, so i could hear myself. He went on a temper tantrum out of nowhere, saying we are too loud and we our drowning out the background vocalists (one happens to be his wife) and telling me how i have no respect for authority and such. I figured he was just having a bad day. Anyway the next service I sucked it up and played and couldnt hear myself and just went about my way. but the next practise, i asked him again to turn me up, this time he made a scene in front of the whole band, and we had to stop practising while i explained to him how a band works, and what a sound techs responsibilities are, the whole time making sure that i didnt say anything that would offend him, yet for some reason, he couldnt communicate his point without yelling @ me, and making a fool of himself. Anyway here we are 2 weeks later, and my pastor has asked me to step down from the band for a few weeks, saying that my attitude isnt right and that i have no respect for the people in power.... Why is it that i have herd that on the online forums, now im hearing it @ church. When did it become acceptable for people in power to always be right, even when they are incorrect? When did churches become more worried about who is on their side, instead of who is there for the right reasons? When did it become politically incorrect to ask the questions that need to be asked? and finally............. When did it become so hard for people to admit when they are wrong? perhaps my judgement is so clouded, after all i am a baseball umpire, i have to be on my best bahavior, i have to be on my A-game all the time, i have to be perfect, and i have to carry myself to a higher standard regaurdless of how people treat me. Im afraid that now im just letting people walk over me........ DAMN IT this sucks [/quote'] Sorry but who's got "power" in this situation? No one!! So you have been dropped by the church pastie beacuse he's better friends with the sound guy than you are! That's what it comes down too.... Freinds like that are not worth having! Flight959 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jefleppard Posted October 15, 2008 Share Posted October 15, 2008 time for you guys to be my shrink again.............. Why is it that i have herd that on the online forums' date=' now im hearing it @ church. When did it become acceptable for people in power to always be right, even when they are incorrect? When did churches become more worried about who is on their side, instead of who is there for the right reasons? When did it become politically incorrect to ask the questions that need to be asked? and finally............. When did it become so hard for people to admit when they are wrong? perhaps my judgement is so clouded, after all i am a baseball umpire, i have to be on my best bahavior, i have to be on my A-game all the time, i have to be perfect, and i have to carry myself to a higher standard regaurdless of how people treat me. Im afraid that now im just letting people walk over me........ DAMN IT this sucks you have defined your problem well and honestly. i think you've even solved it with your reference to umpiring. what would a baseball game be without them? cacophony. anarchy. lawlessness. these are cool prospects of youth but do they really work? nope. the game would not get past the first pitch. every social situation - forums, work, sport teams...every thing that involves human interaction - has a set of natural laws that govern it. cooperation, unfortunately is inherent and unreplaceable. as soon as you step into the real world every day you are automatically agreeing to the rules of engagement. fair play, tact and courtesy arent just your grampa's corny words..well ..they are, i guess ( mine, too - LOL) but they are also great tools for managing social difficulties. no setting, except for maybe really close friends who can insult each other constantly knowing that its all fun because they have that rapport, has a "say anything without repercussion" clause to it. you are in a band. whether its a church group or a drug-addled garage band, group rules and dynamics apply. yes, when you're alone you can play what you want, when you want to and as loud as you can take it. but, its not unrealistic to think that these conditions might effect others negatively. like living in an apartment vs. a single family home. you can make alot more noise in a house, but why? my amp has the same wattage in the apt as it does the house! sure it does but there is another factor to consider in the apt. other people. same thing in a band, team, marriage, work etc... now, all you can do is what you think is the best you can do in terms of cooperation. what do you really think is fair? not only in terms of your amp's EQ setting but in terms of the people around you? are you meeting them at the fence? if so, then it is the other persons duty to do the same. i often used to joke about the word "comprimise" and devised my own definition. i'd say a comprimise is in place when no one is completely happy. its kind of true but i hope you get my drift. just as if someone else (i'll use drummer as an example because i think drummers are lower on the food chain! sorry just a joke) was playing drums too loud, off time etc... no one would excuse this for long even if the guy didn't know he was doing something wrong. what if he was having the greatest time playing s**t? how do you tell him? how will he feel? its not personal, its just that he's not fitting in with the rest of the people involved. their feelings count, too. he needs to be told. dont think anyones getting a kick out of it, on a power trip or trying to impress their wives, girlfriend, pastor.... now if it is their problem - they are judging you too harshly then this will become evident once you start to play the game properly. if you believe you are be considerate and their comments continue, then you have a genuine issue ith them. this is not too say you should just tank, pop a couple fukitol (can i say that?) and bail... no. you love what your doing- fight for it. not fight, literally. use your tact and intelligence to suggest solutions. happy medians and ..ugh.. comprimises. chances are they will "come to the fence" and meet you halfway. if they are socially-diseased people and have no interest in playing fair or have their own agendas (which may be the case as we are talking about musicians here, afterall!) you'll still know you did your best and be able to walk away with good conscience. if you now turn away and blame it all on them and seek out yet another new setting, history will repeat itself because your troubles follow you until you make adjustments of your own. alot of people spent their lives running, thinking "its everyone else". you can only truely say that if you've taken the time to set your own table properly. sorry, if this is not what you wanted to hear. if you were looking for some reassurance or someone to pipe in and say "screw 'em. church people are this, church people are that..." im sure someone will chime in that way but to justify by pidgeon-holing and discounting gets you no further ahead in the long run. 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FennRx Posted October 15, 2008 Share Posted October 15, 2008 The same thing you described is common' date=' it's a shame church people don't [i']always[/i] act like "church" people. quote] i would say ever. but you say tomato... lol but the solution is what Neo said...eff 'em. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChanMan Posted October 15, 2008 Share Posted October 15, 2008 Don't rule out the possibility that you may be in the right, but the squeaky wheel gets the grease. The pastor may have come to you because you would be more easy going about it. Sounds to me like the sound guy may be an instigator. It will bear itself out in the long run. I'd take a break from the band... and the church for a couple of weeks. If the sound guy is a troublemaker, he'll find another target once you are gone. Eventually the pastor will have to recognize the common denominator. If he seems to get along with everyone else, perhaps some introspection on how you relate to others might do some good.... if you seriously can't find any angle from which your interaction could be misconstrued, maybe you two just clash. Try prayer.... He knows for certain. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Space Pup Posted October 15, 2008 Share Posted October 15, 2008 In my earlier days I played in bands and we were at the mercy of the clubs own sound guys. Some were great, some couldn't recognize a balanced sound if it crawled up their pants leg and kissed 'em. If this sound guy can't correct a simple problem like bringing you up on your own monitor and bringing up the backup vocals, than plain and simple...they need a new sound guy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
djroge1 Posted October 15, 2008 Share Posted October 15, 2008 Well, I say turn to the Bible for help.... Since you are talking about church and all. Hebrews 13:17 Obey your leaders and submit to their authority. They keep watch over you as men who must give an account. Obey them so that their work will be a joy, not a burden, for that would be of no advantage to you. Colossians 3:22 Slaves, in all things obey those who are your masters on earth, not with external service, as those who merely please men, but with sincerity of heart, fearing the Lord. Obviously we don't have slaves/masters, but I would say the implication is, you have those in authority (masters) over you (slave) - in this case you may have a worship leader and the pastor and you should submit to their leadership. Here is the big picture - you are part of the worship team, but your role is to help others focus on the Lord, not you, not the band, not even the pastor. If there is tension there, some will pick up on that and they will no longer be focused on God. Ministry is always bigger than any one individual. One last scripture for you - Galatians 6:7 Do not be deceived, God is not mocked; for whatever a man sows, this he will also reap. Let the pastor "sow" his choice of how he handled the situation - asking you to take a break. In time he will "reap" the results of his choice. You have to trust that God's word is true and that for better or worse this situation will be worked out to God's glory. My 2cents worth... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
myspace.com/jessenoah Posted October 15, 2008 Author Share Posted October 15, 2008 Thank you for the insight guys! Its a situation where I dont have any power to compete with the sound man. Since day one I have submitted to what the people in power have told me, it is frustrating though. I called my pastor last night.......... A simple problem of where the volume knobs are, has become an investigation into my personal life/habits, and that my attitude is bad................. All because a sound man isnt willing to communicate with me thats what it all boils down to, Ive been playing @ this church for a year, been going for 3, i think the people would know me and know my heart pretty good. but i cannot continue to go to a church where the pastor tries to trick me into saying things that will "incriminate" myself. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jefleppard Posted October 15, 2008 Share Posted October 15, 2008 it is not the sound man's "fault" for your introspection. every man who wants to grow and be a better person must look inward in order to grow, regardless of the state, maturity or mind set of those around us or "in power". this is not an "me against them" situation as you are percieving it. it is a growth opportunity for you if you want it to be. to turn away and simply toss blame out is to rob yourself of the chance to learn. trashy poeple do that. "ghetto" lifestyle people do that. you learn nothing by it and grow no further. dont cheat yourself. you're at one of many crossraods in life. if you turn back, you'll have gained nothing except learning when to hide. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Taylor Player Posted October 15, 2008 Share Posted October 15, 2008 I can understand where your coming from somewhat. I played in a special "invite" only type band that our church had for several years and really enjoyed it. When we got a new pastor a couple years ago, he wanted to make big changes in our group. We had several talented people in the group and were doing quite well playing at the Contemporary service. Numbers were way up and the service was quickly overtaking the Traditional service numbers. The new pastor decided he wanted us to play more traditional songs instead of the more contemporary christian music that we were used to playing. (after all, this was the CONTEMPORARY service and all). Anyway, long story short, he also decided we needed to include anyone that wanted to join which severly limited the talent levels we had established. We were trying to decide on music during our once a week practice that we would be playing the following Sunday!!! Between, the music changes, new members and lack of rehersal, I decided that it was no longer "fun". I had joined after being asked by the other members because I thought it would be fun and it was for several years. One guy comes in and shakes up the whole group. Now only 2 original members are left in that group and the contemporary service is all but empty. My advice..... if it ain't fun...(and it is supposed to be).... You don't need to waste your time with it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AXE® Posted October 15, 2008 Share Posted October 15, 2008 Churches = Business, plain and simple. Sad but true whats bad for business. is the bottom line. If the parishioners secretly gripe behind closed doors(and they do)And say things such as I'm not returning "if" Then your hosed. I've see the holier than thou attitudes and it's sickening to see these "good Christians" piss and moan about the profits of the church. You can stand alone in a field and do tour praising by yourself and feel just as satisfied as if you had sat in a man made temple.... The world is a temple ... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thundergod Posted October 15, 2008 Share Posted October 15, 2008 Hey man, how did you end up with your past nickname? Werent you just "jesse" or lp-jesse (or something like that) now? Good to have you back. When did it become acceptable for people in power to always be right' date=' even when they are incorrect? [/quote'] It has always been that way man... I'm sorry to hear you are having this kind of problem... when I started gigging (some 14 years ago, at only 16 y/o believe it or not...) I had problems with sound enginers all the time... they "knew everything" and I "knew nothing", so they made my guitar sound like sh¡t, rendering all my hours of tone tweaking irrelevant and useless. They just had to have it their way: sm57 directly to the front of a 2x12 cab (duh! ), and in the desk highs at 10, lows at 10 and mids at -10. For a guy that had achieved the perferct Iron Maiden meets Queen tone, that killed me. But they were not willing to tweak their settings, they said "that is the way guitars are EQed..." go figure... I ran into trouble with lots of enginers (one at each place we played...) until we got "famous" enough to demand they let ME and a sound enthusiast friend that ran behind us to every gig, do all the tone tweaking. When did churches become more worried about who is on their side' date=' instead of who is there for the right reasons? [/quote'] Since the begining they have been worried about who is at their side: GOD (yeah right... I dont mean to sound like an *** but most ministers and church people think GOD is on their side and so you ow them something... ). Last time a church-olite came knocking at my door he asked me if I would give him a 50% discount on recording a complete album... he said he was a man of faith and his church... (yadah yadah yadah...) and so he deserved 50% discount... I said I donot have afiliations to/with any church or god. And if he thought he was closer to god than I was... he said "yes" so I said: "well, then the lord will provide, and you will be able to pay 100%". F those a-s... they talk about faith and all, but they are willing to take their gods name for a discount. When did it become politically incorrect to ask the questions that need to be asked? and finally............. I think NEO is more suited to answer that one... When did it become so hard for people to admit when they are wrong? How about asking that one to those a-hole mods at GT and MLP ? They will ban you for life. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fingers galore Posted October 15, 2008 Share Posted October 15, 2008 If it were me I would bail. Either alone or with the whole band. That may be considered a harsh decision by some, but if that keeps going on then you will become distracted from the most important thing. The music. Just my 2 cents. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thundergod Posted October 15, 2008 Share Posted October 15, 2008 i did explain myself to the pastor' date=' i explained how we havent been able to communicate because he isnt willing to....the problem is the pastor is on his side because he donates more money to the church then i do its some school yard, highschool BS i am the one who is acting mature, i am the one who is being disrespected, yet i am the one who is in trouble:-s [/quote'] EDITED BY MIKE@GIBSON This is not cool, Thundergod. I can't let that kind of stuff stand in a public company forum frequented by minors. I'm not going to allow that level of vulgarity, sorry, it ain't gonna happen. Folks, we either police ourselves and behave with some level of decorum, or we end up losing the cool freeform community we all likely want. You won't find me jumping in and editing posts for content very often, but this crossed the line. Thundergod, this is the only warning you'll get about that level of vulgarity being permitted. I think you know you've crossed a line, at least, i hope you know that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
daveinspain Posted October 15, 2008 Share Posted October 15, 2008 EDITED BY MIKE. Hey Thunder is back...!! I was getting worried. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bluemoon Posted October 15, 2008 Share Posted October 15, 2008 Edited by Mike). Thunder You are a sick, sick man. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thundergod Posted October 15, 2008 Share Posted October 15, 2008 If it were me I would bail. Either alone or with the whole band. That may be considered a harsh decision by some' date=' but if that keeps going on then you will become distracted from the most important thing. The music. Just my 2 cents. [/quote'] +1 Would it be ok if I ad some extra 0.02 to yours? (being that I agree 100% with your comment and would do the same). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thundergod Posted October 15, 2008 Share Posted October 15, 2008 Thunder You are a sick' date=' sick man. [/quote'] You know I was just kidding.. right? ...was I? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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